Admin monitoring of posts for abusive users

[admin]

As cited on another thread, this poll will resolve the dispute over "colorful" users who choose to use this board as a means for, at times, insulting other users.  The simple question here is: "Do you think users should be expelled from this site for continuously casting direct, personal insults on other users?"  I'd like the follow-up discussion to revolve around if so, then how?  What criteria should we install in place here to determine an abusive user?  One thought:  using the poll system to simply vote out potential trolls, etc.  I don't know what the best solution is, if there is even one here to find.  I'm looking to all of you for some discussion in this regard.   

I don't enjoy removing users, in a perfect world this wouldn't be a problem.  I just want to figure out from all of you if it's worth my time to even continue responding to "reported" posts.  If it isn't, and you all vote NO here, then this Admin account's posting will be disabled and I will no longer remove any users for any reasons involving the content of their posts---we will live in what Berwynite feels is true freedom of speech.  It's all of your decisions to make.  Oh, and all voting results are seen only as statistical numbers for the Admin.  That is to say, feel free to vote NO, even if I cared which i don't, I wouldn't be able to determine who voted what, etc.  So, please feel free to cast your vote here honestly.  Whatever the results determine, we will live with.  I think this is the fairest way to determine how to continue administrating this site.

Jim

[Ana]

This is such a black and white question.  I think Gone kind of falls in the gray area.  Yes, he is pretty disgusting but not as insulting as some others that have been banned from the site.  I say continue monitoring, but it should take more than this to ban someone.  He doesn't know me from Adam so I don't take his posts personally.

[I Am Back]

DITTO !

[admin]

This is such a black and white question.  I think Gone kind of falls in the gray area.  Yes, he is pretty disgusting but not as insulting as some others that have been banned from the site.  I say continue monitoring, but it should take more than this to ban someone.  He doesn't know me from Adam so I don't take his posts personally

Very black and white question.  I think, as all site users, we need to collectively come to a definitive decision here.  That's why I've requested a discussion on the issue.  I wish to solicit opinions from all sides of the table, yet wish to do so in a manner that isn't offensive to other site users--that's why the "attack the opinion not the user" rule went into effect.  It seems, however, this doesn't seem to be working well for some users, so I've come to a crossroads--either continue as is, or simply remove the rule and let you all fend for yourselves.  Going this route, I fear, will inherently pollute the board making it a place where you see endless threads of slander and stupidity.  But what one considers stupidity and personal attacks might just be seen as a coarse sense of humor for another user.  It's a difficult issue, one that can only be resolved through the opinions of the site's users.  It's your site.

There are, however, other alternatives. I think polling potential problems could be one possible solution, however I'm not the person to run those polls.  They should be run by folks who uses the site on a daily basis--people who are knowledgeable about the vast majority of users and have the ability to act in the best interests of the site.

This isn't to say I believe someone should be assigned the duties of removing users from the site.  We ALL would collectively have this authority.  My idea is to create a separate forum with a team of moderators from the various viewpoints of this board who will determine the users accused of being abusive by fielding complaints, discuss those complaints among the members of the team, and setup the polls to ultimately decide whether or not sed user's account is removed, banned for a period of days, account and posts removed, etc.  The moderator team will have an odd number of members, 5 or 7, so in those difficult situations a vote can take place to decide.  Those decisions are final.  To elect the moderator team, I think we should all nominate users, maybe the top five you feel should be a part of the group, nominating yourself doesn't count.  From there, the results will be tallied and this team will serve as described above.  Any thoughts?  I know it's a complicated process, but I'm very much concerned with freedom of speech, as well as the protection of this site's users.  These two powerful forces seem to collide on an ever-increasing basis within this board.  Hopefully a solution such as this will resolve the problem.

Before we get to this point, we need to determine if you all even want any type of "thread moderation."  Please take part in this poll.

[admin]

If you don't like someone or their posts then simply do not read them or respond.  Try to read past the BS and don't take it personally like Art says and don't add fuel to the fire. I think there needs to be some kind of monitoring or people will go berzerk with really trashy threads once they learn there are no "rules".  Maybe warnings, suspensions.....but banning? 

In the past, sadly, public and private warnings seem to only add more fuel to the fire.  Bans are possible, complete with expiration dates, etc..  We're still left with the problem of determing who gets a ban, and for what reasons, etc.  I can be the decision-maker, but would like to install a more democratic solution to this issue.

[Juliet]

I don't want to come to this site and read some of the offensive, sexual inuendo that I have often come across.  It crosses the line of decency.  It is not as easy as "don't read something if you don't like that person's posts".  You don't know what you are going to read until you read it.

I also think that the "appeal" of anonymity gives some people license to really push the envelope.  If they are banned, will they just join as another entity like some other existing posters here?  I realize someone may be going out on a professional limb to bring forth certain issues into the light and therefore does not want their name out there, but bullying, name calling, personal attacks and sexual inuendo are not perks that come with hiding behind a name.

Yes, I vote for rules, guidelines, a warning system and deletion of posts and termination of membership if the rules are not respected.  Being a member here is a priviledge, not a rite.  There can always be other sites set up if your philosophy is to bash, blame and flame.  You could start your own website, Berwyn Trash Talk.  I only hope that this site does not morph into that, due to a lack of guidelines.

I did belong to an online community that had a "management" group that met online once every week or two in their chatroom for a brief discussion if a site problem came up.  They emailed their votes to the administrator who then carried out the "majority rule" decision.  It was not up for public vote.  I think your idea of a voting board is a very good one.  As far as a nomination goes, I would like to suggest T Stan, if he would do it.  He listens to both sides and seems to be able to react unemotionally.

Whatever perimeters are set up, it is up for the individual member, including myself, to decide if this is a group you want to be a part of. 

[admin]

Yes, it is up to the individual member to decide if he/she/ wants to participate in a discussion. 

I find some photos that are posted on here offensive, had my share of being called names (and calling names back) but I don't run crying to the admin.  We are all not perfect and discussions can get heated. 

Is there a way for a member to have something similiar to an ignore button in a chat room?  This way people don't have to view posts by specific users if they so choose.

I'll have to check into this with the people who wrote the forum software.  I know there's an ignore feature, but i think it's for PM only.  What are your thoughts about the mod team?

[Juliet]

I think Juliet jumped the gun with putting nominations out there. (and it's not that I have anything against T-Stan) What is the criteria that makes one poster seem more opened minded?  What if someone has no knowledge about the subject of the discussion?

They should be run by folks who uses the site on a daily basis--people who are knowledgeable about the vast majority of users and have the ability to act in the best interests of the site.

This isn't to say I believe someone should be assigned the duties of removing users from the site.  We ALL would collectively have this authority.  My idea is to create a separate forum with a team of moderators from the various viewpoints of this board who will determine the users accused of being abusive by fielding complaints, discuss those complaints among the members of the team, and setup the polls to ultimately decide whether or not sed user's account is removed, banned for a period of days, account and posts removed, etc.  The moderator team will have an odd number of members, 5 or 7, so in those difficult situations a vote can take place to decide.  Those decisions are final.  To elect the moderator team, I think we should all nominate users, maybe the top five you feel should be a part of the group, nominating yourself doesn't count.

My reply was not to jump the gun, but to post the reply I thought Jim was looking for, as he asked us to nominate users. I think the qualities that make for a good moderator is someone who you think embodies the qualities to see the actual issue, as well as the fact that there are two sides to it, and can facilitate a fair playing field.

Would you prefer the nominations to come through email instead of on the board?  I can ammend the text in my previous post and submit it through the system's email feature.

[Berwyn Patsy]

I think a simple rule, guidlines and a 3 tier warning system with the end result being termination of the membership.  Then if that member wanted to come back could there be a fee to pay?  I can usually ignore the stupidity, cruel and even the boring posters on this board if I choose, but some kind of regukation would be welcomed as far as I am concerned.

[T-Stan RPCV]

Jim, IMO the way you're handling it now is just fine. 

If you worry about it being too subjective perhaps users should send you a personal message if they are offended by a poster.  Once you receive 5 messages from different users regarding the same person then they're gone.  Or, 5 complaints would result in a poll to vote that person off.

We need to have something so people don't feel threatened when posting here, taking a tribunal approach is a good idea but maybe too much.

[OakParkSpartan]

I think as owner of the board, you should do things how you want.  I don't like the tribunal idea, as I have seen it break down before.  Ignore the little red devil if you see that post.  It's not difficult to do.

How many complaints are you getting?

Cheers,
Brian

[pkd50]

I vote no censorship.  I like Berwynite's if you don't like it don't read it suggestion, or even respond by saying you don't like it.

[Bru67]

As cited on another thread, this poll will resolve the dispute over "colorful" users who choose to use this board as a means for, at times, insulting other users.  The simple question here is: "Do you think users should be expelled from this site for continuously casting direct, personal insults on other users?"  I'd like the follow-up discussion to revolve around if so, then how?  What criteria should we install in place here to determine an abusive user?  One thought:  using the poll system to simply vote out potential trolls, etc.  I don't know what the best solution is, if there is even one here to find.  I'm looking to all of you for some discussion in this regard.    

I don't enjoy removing users, in a perfect world this wouldn't be a problem.  I just want to figure out from all of you if it's worth my time to even continue responding to "reported" posts.  If it isn't, and you all vote NO here, then this Admin account's posting will be disabled and I will no longer remove any users for any reasons involving the content of their posts---we will live in what Berwynite feels is true freedom of speech.  It's all of your decisions to make.  Oh, and all voting results are seen only as statistical numbers for the Admin.  That is to say, feel free to vote NO, even if I cared which i don't, I wouldn't be able to determine who voted what, etc.  So, please feel free to cast your vote here honestly.  Whatever the results determine, we will live with.  I think this is the fairest way to determine how to continue administrating this site.

Jim

Some items to consider:

1.  People considering moving to Berwyn or doing business here are reading these posts and drawing conclusions about the community based on them.  You don't think potential residents research this community on the internet and find this board?

2.  Abusive posters, like Gone, don't add anything of value (except maybe a laugh or two) but do create a negative impression of the community -- probably more than you realize.

3.  There are many posters with contrary or controversial views who express them intelligently and add value so supression isn't an issue.

4.  There simply aren't a lot of abusive posters -- maybe a couple?

If these discussions were only being viewed by Berwynites, I'd probably have a different opinion.  However, because they are not, I think you delete their accounts.  My $.02.

[P-PANTHER]

As cited on another thread, this poll will resolve the dispute over "colorful" users who choose to use this board as a means for, at times, insulting other users.  The simple question here is: "Do you think users should be expelled from this site for continuously casting direct, personal insults on other users?"  I'd like the follow-up discussion to revolve around if so, then how?  What criteria should we install in place here to determine an abusive user?  One thought:  using the poll system to simply vote out potential trolls, etc.  I don't know what the best solution is, if there is even one here to find.  I'm looking to all of you for some discussion in this regard.    

I don't enjoy removing users, in a perfect world this wouldn't be a problem.  I just want to figure out from all of you if it's worth my time to even continue responding to "reported" posts.  If it isn't, and you all vote NO here, then this Admin account's posting will be disabled and I will no longer remove any users for any reasons involving the content of their posts---we will live in what Berwynite feels is true freedom of speech.  It's all of your decisions to make.  Oh, and all voting results are seen only as statistical numbers for the Admin.  That is to say, feel free to vote NO, even if I cared which i don't, I wouldn't be able to determine who voted what, etc.  So, please feel free to cast your vote here honestly.  Whatever the results determine, we will live with.  I think this is the fairest way to determine how to continue administrating this site.

Jim

Some items to consider:

1.  People considering moving to Berwyn or doing business here are reading these posts and drawing conclusions about the community based on them.  You don't think potential residents research this community on the internet and find this board?

2.  Abusive posters, like Gone, don't add anything of value (except maybe a laugh or two) but do create a negative impression of the community -- probably more than you realize.

3.  There are many posters with contrary or controversial views who express them intelligently and add value so supression isn't an issue.

4.  There simply aren't a lot of abusive posters -- maybe a couple?

If these discussions were only being viewed by Berwynites, I'd probably have a different opinion.  However, because they are not, I think you delete their accounts.  My $.02.

Very well said Bru 67.

Any benefit of contributions made by abusive posters (if any) is far outweighed by the potential harm to this board and the community at large.

I agree that some of Gone's posts are witty and funny, but a line has to be drawn somewhere. And for those with a proclivity to debate just what constitutes "abuse", keep in mind a former Supreme Court Justice's definition of obscenity"I can't define it, but I know it when I see it". 

[chandasz]

I agree with bru.

But it's not just non-Berwynites that are forming negative opinions but new residents like me.

Come on guys. Can't you do this at the bar with your friends instead of on the boards? Differing opinions are great but the personal attacks are stupid

[P-PANTHER]

DITTO !

With respect to your signature line, I believe you of all people should know the limits and parameters of free speech.

[Juliet]

If someone makes a decision about Berwyn with a population of 56,000 based on what 160 anonymous posters write then they need their own head examined.

Berwynite, I disagree to some level.  Two weeks ago, we were in negotiations for a Berwyn to Berwyn move.  We ended up not getting the house we wanted, but I found the posts regarding the 3300 block of Kenilworth apartment building to be something that was influential to my decision in pursuing another house in that area.

If I was moving to a city I was unfamiliar with and found out there was a site such as this, I would want to see what the overall feel of the people there was.  What do they think of their school situation, public works, police and fire, gangs, property values?  

I was taught once in a class I took relating to the dental practice that the few patients who speak up should have their opinions weigh as more than one voice.  For every one person who has the courage to say something, there are probably 25 more who are just not the type to bring it to your attention.  If I have a few patients tell me at the desk that the hygienist was rough, I investigate the complaints.  All too often an employee leaves the practice, and then all of these patients start feeling free enough to complain about her, and praising her replacement.  They tell me "She was miserable," "she was rough" "she didn't take good care of my kids" Yet they chose not to mention this each and every time, yet still returned.  This leaves me to wonder how many patients have left the practice because they'd rather leave than complain.

Yes, you do need to do your homework when looking for a new home, which is more than just stopping in here.  Though  I would consider this board one factor that can contribute to a person's opinion of the city.

[pkd50]

If we follow that reasoning, then we should say nothing at all that's negative so we don't discourage the "right people" from moving here. 

[chandasz]

I don't think the purpose of the board should be to be a sales place for Berwyn.

I'm not talking about free speech infringement.

I'm just saying that it would make this board more useful to stick to the topic that is in the subject line. It's just acting as an adult member of a community with a little respect for those around them.

If you want to talk about someone blowing someone or giving handjobs to start grassfire and what an ass someone else is-- why not start a new thread?

[Vic0218]

Please - no censorship.

I'm a frequent reader, but do not frequently post. I suspect the majority of people using this board are mature enough to disregard irrelevant postings and immature feedback.

I can't imagine that anyone would want to be responsible for managing whether a post/user is in violation.

Thanks - Vicki