Crime, Education in Berwyn.

[pioneer]

Sounds like South Berwyn is just as bad or worse than North Berwyn?

Despite all the great posts and ideas posted on this site, I am beginning to feel Berwyn is a sunk cost.

I live in N Berwyn and really do not see any crime, but still I cannot help feel that we are past the point of no return.

I basically cannot feel safe or sure about Berwyn if these types of things are happening here.  Maybe I am letting all the bad press/comments get to me?

Still, it seems this town is fast becoming an entry/starting point, as someone else stated.

It may have not been like this, but it seems like this is the case going forward for Berwyn.

So, four more years or get out now?

[mabeda]

Wow, these posts are even more depressing than the current crime spree in our community!!!  HELLO!!! We live in a world where crime is rampant no matter where you live.  If you think you can find a safe haven in some ritzy suburb, then go for it, but unfortunately, I don't think you're going to find it anywhere you go.  IMHO this community is in transition and this is the time to take a stand.  So if you're not up to the challenge then maybe it's best that you do move on to your little fantasy world.  We need residents that are dedicated to this community, dare I say... even when the going gets tough!!!

[TyRy]

Question.  Do you have to live in the District where your child attends school ?  If it is not a requirement, we need to get it back to where IT IS a requrement.

1) For homes, parents would need to show that at least two current utilities bills are in their name (gas, electric, telephone and paid homeowner's insurance policy (do you realize some people don't have homeowner's insurance?).  A driver's license just doesn't get this job done.  This then also ties in to the overcrowding in Berwyn Homes.  I am a big believer that Bungalows are for ONE family.  It's one thing to have a brother, sister or cousin living with you to help them out.  It's another thing when an entire family, mother, father, and kids are living in the same home.  The thinking then would be, what's the sense of moving in with Sis & Bro when we won't be able to send our kids to school.  You may still have those that will come to raise babies.  This is where we are suppose to be enforcing laws already on the books, but which the City has been reluctant to enfore.  Critics would say, that would empty the schools out.  Yes, to be replaced by kids from more affluent familes that are looking to buy in this hot commodity, Berwyn.

If you rent, bring in your lease, and last payment made to landlord.

Ruffian - I couldn't agree more!!!!  It seems even when I was in the public school system in Chicago (70's and 80's) we had to prove where we lived..let's hope the new administration is listening!!!

[Bru67]

Wow, these posts are even more depressing than the current crime spree in our community!!!  HELLO!!! We live in a world where crime is rampant no matter where you live.  If you think you can find a safe haven in some ritzy suburb, then go for it, but unfortunately, I don't think you're going to find it anywhere you go.  IMHO this community is in transition and this is the time to take a stand.  So if you're not up to the challenge then maybe it's best that you do move on to your little fantasy world.  We need residents that are dedicated to this community, dare I say... even when the going gets tough!!!

Well, actually the fantasy world would be a little safer, and not subject one to the daily "what's going on in your town?" crap that all of us here who work outside Berwyn are probably painfully familiar with.  Because of that, you're getting a very dedicated and motivated resident in here.  You're getting some less desirable ones too, as we've discussed at length, but I like what I'm seeing.  You have to care to live here, especially those who are highly educated.  At the moment, it's not the path of least resistance for them.  Yet, they're coming anyway.  

I don't know if you were speaking to me but if my posts sound a bit depressing, it's because I'm concerned.  I don't think Berwyn is dangerous or "bad."  In fact it is a great place to live.  But that said, I don't think we can be complacent and continue to muddle along like we have over the past decade.  Too many people are being shuffled around due to gentrification and skyrocketing housing values.  The dust will settle somewhere and we'd all best hope it isn't here.  My prediction goes to way up but we will have to work for it.

[Robert Pauly]

None of this is depressing to me.  I view our problems as opportunities - opportunities to improve Berwyn and our investments.  I think O'Connor and his administration can make quick strides in many areas - our budget and spending are one - solving other problems will be more difficult.

Crime, specifically gangbanger crime, is a symptom, not a problem - IMO, this town was just too affordable during the 90's, disturbing the socio-economic balance that Berwyn once enjoyed.  I'm all for diversity - we don't need to be a country club community like Riverside, but when 63% of your elementary school students come from low income families, something is out of whack.  And crime is a product of our lack of diversity.

So are our problems with schools.  The school districts were inundated with a new Berwyn citizen - many children who didn't speak English, and parents who knew even less.  The schools are just getting a handle on this now, and to me, I think they're doing a fantastic job with little resources.  But the fact remains that many great citizens flee because of crime and schools.  And that makes the turnaround effort all the more difficult.

Thankfully, the real estate market boomed, slowing the rush of lower income people.  Now's the time for some strategic, long term planning.

Not to diminish any of the plans talked about in this forum, but we are in a crisis situation, and Starbucks, farmer's markets and the development of the Depot District are secondary considerations to me.  We need to attract a more affluent citizen, and basically, a more affluent citizen wants a safe place to live and a place to grown their children.  Ever hear of someone not moving into a town because they didin't have a Starbucks?  Ever hear of someone not moving into a town because it's unsafe, or has poor performing schools?  These are the priorities, folks, and the IVB has to act on these issues now.

O'Connor can handle the symptom of crime - he's the man when it comes to policing - he can build the force to maintain what we have while we work towards the ultimate solution, readjusting our demographics.  We can help here, too, with citizens watch and other community policing programs.

Relative to schools, and I know that city government is separate from the school system, O'Connor needs to lean on the school board and impress upon them how much poor performance is hurting this town.  Next, there has to be some city or town town in the US that has successfully navigated the waters of gentrification - I'd find that school administrtor and hire them immediately - at any cost.  Get the best in the land - someone who has experience with our type of problem.  We're in a crisis, folks, and we need to act in a big and decisive way.

Now I'm really going to lose you - then I'd raise taxes - say $1,000 per household.  Devote it entirely to the school system.  This will have two positive effects - it will improve schools and make this town less affordable.  I'm not hard hearted, and I'm sorry if you're having difficulty making ends meet, but this town is out of balance, and we need to balance it now.

On the other hand, even if we kill the revolution in favor of evolution, I still think we'll improve.  We just have too many assets to be kept down forever.  Maybe I'll flee because of the education implications for my two toddlers, but in ten years or so, I think Berwyn will be OK.

[OakParkSpartan]

Melliman,

Regarding raising taxes.  Lets first get a good accounting of where money is being spent in this town, both in the city govt. and the school districts. 

I personally think we could do without 2 park districts and a recreation department.  I suspect we could toss some of that tax money towards schools, and not see taxes rise as much.  But first, get a grip on the City of Berwyn financials, which is the first order of business for the new administration.

Cheers,
Brian

[hvychev]

I personally think this test score thing is a load of horse shit. IMO and I know it has been said somewhere above in this thread that a good kid will excel at any school that they go to.

How many of you posting here have actually gone to a school in Berwyn as kids? Let me go even further and ask how many of you have gone to a Berwyn school in the last 10 years? I will take a wild guess and say NONE of you have. I attended North Berwyn schools from K-12th grade and it is not as bad as you dooms dayers are making it out to be.

Lets try a new concept of actually being parents to your kids and not there buddies. Pay attention to what they are doing, who they are with, where they are going, and give them a kick in the ass when they screw up. This is a GREAT area to raise your kinds in the fact that they will become more street smart here than they will in Plainfield or Downers Grove. They will learn to deal with all different kinds of people and situations and that is how they will get ahead in life. There is to much nonsense posted here that was taught to you guys in sociology class. Get real.

, but when 63% of your elementary school students come from low income families, something is out of whack.  

I also have a hard time believing this. I know it is written somewhere but I don't believe it. With the prices of homes today and even 5 years ago it does not make any sense. All the kids can't be from renters and even if they were I still don't believe it. Even rent is expensive here. I get $1,250 for rent in my flats and brother you better be making money to afford that rent.

[Face Reality]

Ruffian:  I live in School District 100.  One of my children attends elementary and one attends Heritage.  EVERY year when we register we need to bring in 5 proofs of residency.  Both homeowners and renters have to do this.  Unfortunately, there still are people who 'skirt' around the system.

Remember folks, you voted for school board members.  Keep that in mind the next time around.

[ruffian]

FaceReality, what about Morton ... could be a rumor but I heard kids are attending from Chicago.  If so, this is not right.

[Shelley]

hvychev,

I do believe that the percentage of low income students in our schools is high.  That is because most of the middle income/high income families who live in Berwyn choose to send their kids to private schools.  I'm pretty sure that the 63% is not a reflection of the population of Berwyn, just the population of the kids who attend public schools as figured by those who qualify for free or reduced lunch.  What would happen to this figure if all of the "desired demographics" who live in this town actually took a chance and sent kids to Berwyn schools?  The percentage of low-income would fall and test scores would rise within the year.  This would attract more of the same and continue the trend.  Expectations would be higher almost instantly because the kids in the chairs would be higher achievers and would bring up the standards of the classroom thus benefitting the lower-income students.  Parents would demand excellence.  Now, who wants to be the first to experiment and take the chance with something as important as their kids' education?  Most will continue to move or go to private schools.  I guess if I could find 5 or 6 families with kids entering kindergarten in 2007 (Emerson) and convince them that we could change the schools if we just stuck together-I might consider it.  I'll have 3 kids (so far) to educate.  The private elementary schools will cost about $7,000 a year for my family.  Am I better off sending them to the public school, staying involved and on top of my kids and their school and spending the $$ on supplementing their free public education with museum passes, vacations to Washington DC, piano lessons, computers, etc. etc. etc.  What is the best use of my money educationally?? 

Now before I get slammed for generalizing, I know that using language like "desirable demographics" and "high achievers" is sometimes frowned upon.  I have only spoken based on statistics and research that point to the fact that higher income students are higher achievers, at least in terms of test scores.  I've always said that we shouldn't just wait for the "right" kids to get here and the others to leave.  There are things that can be done RIGHT NOW to improve the school climate and the quality of education for ALL Berwyn kids including raising per pupil spending, reducing class size (especially in the lower grades where it makes the most difference), lengthening the school day, and increasing time spent on Language Arts. 

Lastly, maybe we should move this discussion to the Education section. 

Shelley
St. Leonard Class of '83,  Morton West Class of '87

[hvychev]

Shelly I still don't buy it. When I was growing up in Berwyn I did not know many people that went to private schools. A few went to St. Joe's/IHM and A COUPLE went to Fenwik or Naz. Remember this was 21 years of growing up here. That is a lot of time to meet different kids from all over the neighborhood. Most of those kids came from parents that made just decent livings, some more well off than others. Don't get me wrong, there were "poor" kids too including my best friend my whole live and still to this day, who got the free lunch and who's mom was on welfare and father not in the picture. (BTW that guy is my age 27 yrs old and probably has done better financially then anybody that I know from growing up and probably better than 95% of the general population)

I know that there are a lot of aspiring "Yuppies" here but if they chose Berwyn to live it was not because they loved the neighborhood, it was because this is what they could afford and got in when the prices were right. With that said, even Yuppies have only so much money to work with. I have said it before and I will say it again. Most people have a big mortgage, 2 car payments(and we all know that yuppies love those big expensive suv's), credit cards, utilities, spending, savings, oh and lets not forget that expensive Starbuck's habit. Try and add a $7,000 tuition bill per year per kid for private school........fugedaboudit. Not with the generous salary I am using for this example which is low to mid 100's combined. (that is more than three times Berwyn's median income level) I am giving Berwyn Yuppies the benefit of the doubt and if there income was more they would probably choose somewhere else to live.

Frank
Lincoln Jr High class of 92'
Morton West Class of 96'

[Ana]

"I know that there are a lot of aspiring "Yuppies" here but if they chose Berwyn to live it was not because they loved the neighborhood, it was because this is what they could afford and got in when the prices were right."  

You are right in that respect.  My family and I moved here because the price was right, because we could not afford a bigger home in Oak Park or Riverside and we refused to move to a tract home in Plainfield, Naperville, North Aurora, etc.

I went to High School in Chicago.  It was a good high school as far as public high schools go, but I came from a private school grammar school, hence the challenge was not there.  I could cut a class for a whole week and show up for a test and still get an A, and I did, because I could.  I don't want my children to have that opportunity.  I want them to be challenged.  I started them in Montessori school and then Catholic school, the high school that they go to needs to provide them with the same, if not better, education that they have received thus far.  I know Morton as it stands can't do that and I am not willing to risk my children's education to make Morton a better high school.  I think that should be the responsibility of the school board.  They should risk losing mediocre teachers and students for a better acheiving high school.  

Why not send someone out to each student's home to do surprise home visits to make sure that the child lives there.  Isn't there a program that can be implemented to reduce the number of out of district students?

BTW, I changed the title to the thread.  Carjacking, just wasn't approriate anymore.   

[Bru67]

With that said, even Yuppies have only so much money to work with. I have said it before and I will say it again. Most people have a big mortgage, 2 car payments(and we all know that yuppies love those big expensive suv's), credit cards, utilities, spending, savings, oh and lets not forget that expensive Starbuck's habit.  I am giving Berwyn Yuppies the benefit of the doubt and if there income was more they would probably choose somewhere else to live.

Starbucks habit??  What Starbucks?  I had to switch to a Dunkin' Donuts habit .  And you're high on the income of the average yuppie.  They tend to look and act like they make more than they do.  Most non-yuppies think they make hundreds of thousands of dollars.  Realistically, try $75-100k -- household.  Especially the younger ones coming here.  That means they can spend what on a home?  $250k?  Maybe $300k if they're feeling dangerous?  That won't even get them into a 800 square foot condo in most trendy areas.  Some optimistic and dumb ones are risking adjustable rate mortgages and even interest-only loans to go into hot areas.  Others are going to townhomes in Plainfield, Lockport, et al. and sucking up the long commute and sterile environment. 

But others can't deal with that so it's hello Berwyn.  And why not?  It has a very good upside potential -- which is very hard to find in a long term housing boom which has left these new educated buyers way (and I do mean way) behind.  Markberwyn called them "equity refugees" once and that's correct.  But even those who don't particularly care for them (or what they may bring) seem to understand that we should capitalize on the momentum they're creating and do something positive with it.  Both they and the town will benefit.

[hvychev]

Most non-yuppies think they make hundreds of thousands of dollars.  Realistically, try $75-100k -- household.  Especially the younger ones coming here.  That means they can spend what on a home?  $250k?  Maybe $300k if they're feeling dangerous?  That won't even get them into a 800 square foot condo in most trendy areas.  

Exactly Bru! I did not want too sound to abrasive by just saying the whole "yuppie" thing in Berwyn is bullshit. Anyone here who thinks they are a Yuppie better think again. Like I said in my above post that I was really giving the Yuppies the benefit of the doubt when I said they may make a combined salary of low to mid 100's. My wife and I fall into that income bracket and we have no kids, etc, etc, etc, and I would NEVER consider myself a "Yuppie" without feeling like a complete perpetrator.

The bottom line is if people living in Berwyn who have close to or high school age kids better rethink the high school plan if they want to live better than paycheck to paycheck. Alternative ideas like Art's where she is going to refinance her home and use the equity to send her kids to "better" schools is a good option if that is what she is set on doing. I still feel though that Berwyn's schools are good enough if you are doing a good job raising your kids.

[saluki]

Well as many of your know, I am one of the "newcomers" and my first child will begin Kindgergarten in 2011. Guess what, we have every intention of sending him/her to Emerson.  My husband and I are both educated and have incomes that could sustain a private school education, but we don't want to be hypocrites and decide to conveniently become Catholic again (even though we don't practice and have issues with the church) just to "protect" our kids from the public schools.  Even as we speak, Emerson's test scores are not abysmal as some of claimed, especially considering that 42% are low income.  I am sure this will change and there will be more parity in the coming years as far as more of a socio-economic balance in our schools. It all begins with those folks who are ready to take a chance on their public schools.   

Based on many of the new, young couples in their 30's whom I've met who are just starting or going to start their families here in Berwyn, not all of them are sending their kids to parochial schools.  It's a great option for some, but our public schools must be a viable option as well.

I do agree with Shelley's comment that the makeup of our schools is not a reflection of Berwyn's current population. 

[Boris]

My wife and I fall into that income bracket and we have no kids, etc, etc, etc, and I would NEVER consider myself a "Yuppie" without feeling like a complete perpetrator.

As another who falls into that category, I agree with HVYCHEV...
...obviously, the term "yuppie" is never applied to ones' self, even if you fit the criteria perfectly. As with most terms like "yuppie", "preppie" etc. they were thought up by magazine editors in New York.

[pkd50]

No matter what our educations or income, we are not urban.  Young Urban Professionals.   Yuppy or not who wouldn't want the best they can comfortably afford.  If and when I can afford the North Shore......see ya later guys!  But for now, I'll see you at the Mayberry celebrations tonight!   lol

[Ana]

Berwyn's primary schools have improved in the last couple of years.  Irving has done a wonderful job and so have the parents that have children at the school.  They have been proactive about their children's education.  By the time Saluki's children are ready for primary school they will have improved dramatically and maybe by that time so will the High School.  I prefer a Catholic primary education for my children to supplement the values that I am teaching them at home, my choice.  

[ruffian]

Saluki, with all due respect, is it really necessary to tell us

"but we don't want to be hypocrites and decide to conveniently become Catholic again (even though we don't practice and have issues with the church).

How does one become "conveniently" Catholic "again" ?  Did you become "conveniently" Catholic the first time?

I too have problems with organized religion (any organized religion).  But if you have true faith ... no man or church can take it from you, nor should you allow it.  There are plenty of other christian based religions that provide an alternative, if the Catholic church isn't exactly to your liking.  Christian bashing is the latest trend amongst liberals, and it sounds like you have jumped on that band wagon.  If you think other religions are not guilty of many of the issues that as of late have confronted the Catholic Church ... you are naive, and I would be glad to direct you to several websites that demonstrate the problems exist within all major religions (however the liberal media prefers just to report on the activities of the Catholic Church).  But since you are educated and have a computer you can research that for yourself if you need proof. 

I believe faith is very important in raising children.  To deprive children of spirituality (in the true sense) leaves them to grow in a void.  A parent may conclude that a spiritual life is not necessary for their kids and if it's something the child wants to seek out once an adult, fine.  A problem I see today is you see a lot of kids today that don't believe in anything, cept fame and $$$$, mostly $$$$.   

I realize your comments were directed to a choice regarding private, Catholic, public schools, but the Catholic remarks caught my eye and I thought I would throw in on that part of your post.   

[saluki]

Ruffian,

I only brought up the Catholic schools since they are the only private school options in our area.   Religion is a personal choice and if our children want to explore religion(s) and their spirituality, we will certainly allow for that, but we also won't force it on them. 

Yes, I am very aware that all organized religions are full of corruption...it is not unique to the Catholic Church.   I have not jumped on any bandwagon.  I grew up in the Catholic Church and went to Catholic schools, so I am speaking from my own personal experiences. 

I apologize if my post came off as offensive to any other posters, it was not my intention.   When I made the comment of becoming "conveniently" Catholic again, it was meant to point out that there are folks out there (and I know of a few) who have left the Catholic church and it's teachings behind, never attend services but then when it's convenient for them and they want to send their kids to parochial schools, then it's okay.