201 School Board Meeting 10/10/07

[Bear]

Some case history

http://wicip.org/ncs/forumuniformseval.htm

http://www.gate.net/~rwms/UniformLawsuit.html

[Bonster]

What happened with the case in the second link?

[MortonStudent08]

The first link is an argument about uniforms in Elem. Schools.  There is a huge difference between elementary schools and high schools, but it still poses some interesting points from both sides.

The second link is very interesting.  However, it does not give a result for that particular case...

[Berwyn Patsy]

Thanks Morton Student for expressing your opinion on the topic at hand.  Welcome to the board, and as a student your intake should matter.
Even though uniforms are a big issue for the parents and students I feel more concentration at this time could be better well spent on other priorities, by the school board , such as academic achievment , curriculum and graduation rate.

[MortonStudent08]

I completely agree with you there.  I've expressed this feeling to Dr. No & Pesek before.  They claimed that uniforms was at the bottom of their list and they were merely exploring the idea.  However, it was listed in the top 10 of Dr. No's 20 goals for the district this year, AND it was put in the second board meeting of the school year.  Apparently it IS a prevalent topic for them.  I wish I could've heard a little more feedback from the board about that presentation by that lady about our testing scores and what-not.  I know I would have liked to comment on the fact that Morton WEST made gains in our test scores and the fact that the Class of 2008 @ West raised our ACT scores by about a point and a half. Which, for anyone familiar with the educational system, is a major increase in one year.  IF only I had more than 3 minutes to voice my opinions...

[Curious George]

[quote author=Ted link=topic=4355.msg73740#msg73740 date=1192076640]
 
6. Bob Soucek speaks out - An elderly gentleman named Bob Soucek gave the board a piece of his mind.  First, rather than go up to the microphone provided for the open comments on school uniforms, he went up on the stage and spoke to them directly (despite admonitions from the board president that he was not allowed to do that). Mr Soucek stated that his wife had served on the school board for 10 years. He had heard there was a vacancy on the school board and he wanted someone from Berwyn to be on the board. He lamented the fact that all but one school board member was from Cicero. Mr. Soucek then recommeded his neighbor, Mr. Hermes, as a candidate for the school board.



  There was no appointment of anyone to replace Jerry Chlada on the school board.


[/quote]

Still would like to know why you have not applied or asked to be considered for the position?  You never know?  If you do not ask you cannot be considered, right?  Sure you would make a fine addition to the board and bring some great ideas!

[Suzy Q]

My feelings are that having uniforms only present a band aid approach.  We need to attend to the root of the issues...parental involvement and support, and making sure that the current rules are enforced.   I think that the current dress code is fair and it allows individuality. 

[Ted]

...  I wish I could've heard a little more feedback from the board about that presentation by that lady about our testing scores and what-not.  I know I would have liked to comment on the fact that Morton WEST made gains in our test scores and the fact that the Class of 2008 @ West raised our ACT scores by about a point and a half. Which, for anyone familiar with the educational system, is a major increase in one year...

  I was wondering the same thing Wednesday.  I wish more board members had had questions about what the district needs to do make the math curriculum better or to get more kids to complete the core curriculum, based on the study results.

  Joe Keating and Jeff Pesek were the only board members who seemed interested in the presentation and its content.  The presentation itself was sort of bizzare in that the screen was behind the board members on the stage and off to the side.  So, board members were looking out at the audience while the presentation was being given BEHIND them.

  Joe Keating got out of his chair on stage and went into the audience so that he could see the presentation, but the other board members stayed on the stage just looking out at the audience rather than looking at the presentation.  After the presentation, the only board member who had questions was Joe Keating and Jeff Pesek.  When I was walking out of the building with some parents, that was something they commented on - that some of the board members seemed dis-interested in what was going on. (they were referring to board members other than Pesek and Keating).

  I would have liked to hear the following questions and the responses from the administration:

  1. What is District 201 going to do to increase the percentage of students completing a core curriculum?
  2. What is District 201 going to change in its math curriculum so that 30% of the students taking math do not fail?
  3. Why are so many students at Morton East in AP programs when they shouldn't be?  Why are so many AP students not passing the AP assessment?
  4. Why are 59% of work assignments below the proficiency level?  What is the district going to do to increase the content and complexity of work assignments?

  I do want to say, though, I was impressed by the students that spoke.  THey came off as very articulate and very intelligent.

  A young man named Alex (who I think was Bob Soucek's grandson) made a very good case, citing studies on dress codes and court cases.  I think the young man is going to grow up and become a lawyer.

   The Greek girl who was the Houby Day queen also spoke.  She took obstinate argumentativeness to a new level, trying to go over her time limit and getting other people to give her time.

  I am beginning to think obstinate argumentativeness is a trait particular to only Greeks  <LOL>.

[Berwyn Patsy]

All your questions regarding what district 201 will do to improve the school and its academic program are well deserving of answers.
Maybe Joe Keating will PM, you with some answers.  I was glad to hear atleast 2 of the board members are showing interest in the future of district 201.
I think obstinate argumentativeness is also a huge female trait!!  Ask Mike, 4 daughters and me, he could write a book!!

[Bonster]

It was pointed out time after time that uniforms will NOT raise attendence or test scores.  I even brought up studies that proved that point.

I would like to know what you, as an MW student, believe needs to be done to raise attendance and test scores. 
No essay necessary, just outline a few problem areas.
Is there anything you believe may be inhibiting your further growth as a student and future in terms of college prep and acceptance?

[EC]

It's a shame that math is taking such a hit. I'm a product of East and way back when, math was something everyone did well in thanks to the good teachers we had, not saying that they don't have good ones now. Joe Hanzlik was one of my math teachers, in fact I had him several times. Maybe it has something to do with the department heads and lower standards?

[mustang54]

 I like the fact the students attended and spoke out. But out of over 8000 only about 40 were there. I don't think kids need to show who they are by the way they dress for school. They display who they are by their actions and the way they present and carry themselves. If students want to stand up against what they feel is unfair to them as students I think there are more important issues for them to speak out against.
Such as why the computer lab at West only has 22 computers for over 3000 students.
Why East only has 27. Why students at West have to eat lunch on the floor or go outside after eating to make room for others to sit. Why they have outdated text books.
In other words why they don't have the same advantages as other schools have and have to be educated as if they are second class citizens. Why the past administration waited til there was a debt of 200 million before coming to the public.
 There are many more important issues than what kids wear to school. Like the lack of communication between the school and parents. The lack of a real community newspaper of our own that reports the good and not just the police blotters.
 These students should look to start a school newspaper at each campus,that is overseen by faculty but written by students. It should me MAILED to each students home quarterly and to anyone else in the community who requests it.
 I'm sure Patsy can remember back in the day dresses below the knee,no jeans or slacks.
Us guys, no long hair,no mustaches or beards,dress slacks with a belt,collared shirts. Violate the rules you got sent home to comply and then got a detention when you returned. We had less of a chance to show our individuality through clothing. So we had to show who we were by the way we acted and performed at school.
 I was really impressed with the students that spoke, and there are loads more like them at each campus. There are also loads of teachers who really care about the kids and do great work with a lot less tools to do it than other districts have. Both students and teachers must join together and inform the entire community on what is needed at Morton. If you have a department where 30 percent of the kids are failing it may be time for students to start giving the teachers a report card. Or the teachers and students give their thoughts on what is wrong with the way things are being done. Alot more important issues there to speak out against than what kind of clothes students should wear.

[MRS. NORTHSIDER]

I can't understand why so many of these kids are not taking a core curriculum.  I know not all will be college bound but I also think this is another reason for low test scores.  How can you expect these kids to do well when they don't have the background and knowledge they would have if they were taking a core curriculum.  As for what Ted said regarding AP classes it looks like they are putting kids who are not qualified or prepared into these classes and the outcome is them not being able to pass the exams.

Another example of the district just lowering the bar for the students in the district instead of raising it.  Perhaps they should be saying to the kids that even if you think you will not attend college we will educate you as if you will be going.  As a taxpayer in this district, that's what I expect.

[Berwyn Patsy]

My question is, where are the counselors?
As Mustang would say "back in the day", counselors were assigned to each kid, and then they would meet with that kid, to keep them on the right track, making sure they were taking  core curriculum so as to graduate on time and maybe encourage college.
Mustang was right, if you were dressed unappropriatley, teachers would grab you in hallways, classrooms,you were sent home that hour. Moms , Dads were called at work if not home, and they were not too happy about that.
Enforcement  "back in the day", actually worked.

[Shelley]

I went to the Morton website to see if I could find some information on the Mathematics Department and Curriculum.  http://www.jsmortonhs.com/default.asp

I couldn't find anything.  Then, I went to the OPRF website and found both "summer packets" with actual problems and instruction and this link to the course descriptions:  http://www.oprfhs.org/export/sites/oprf/academic_divisions/Academic_Catalog_Files/Academic_Catalog_Mathematics.pdf

Once again, the lack of information is such a barrier to any progress and, I think, makes it intimidating for some people to question or volunteer or offer help.  What I seem to hear from so many administrators and teachers is that the lack of parental involvement and participation is the biggest obstacle to real change at Morton.  On the other hand, in my experience, there are so many barriers to that participation in terms of communication FROM the schools.   If I want to get the same information that I get from other districts' websites, I'd have to call and work through a menu to figure out who to ask, leave a message, wait for a call back, listen to the dumbfounded silence on the end of the phone (You want what?  why?).  Ultimately, I know that I could get the information...but the timeliness and usefullness of the information would be a problem.   A bit more transparency would really help, IMHO.

I appreciate the 40 parents that attend the meetings and voice their opinions.  I think there are many parents like me, who do not attend many evening meetings, but are just as interested.  There must be other ways of getting information out to people besides evening meetings and flyers that don't get home.   

Shelley

[Ted]

I appreciate the 40 parents that attend the meetings and voice their opinions.  I think there are many parents like me, who do not attend many evening meetings, but are just as interested.  There must be other ways of getting information out to people besides evening meetings and flyers that don't get home.   
Shelley

Shelley, I was actually surprised that the number was as large as it was, given there was no advanced warning, that I know of, given to parents or students.

  The agenda that BerwynPatsy pointed to was not posted until Tuesday on the district website (I had checked the webiste on Monday and the agenda was not out there).  The reason people on BerwynTalk knew about it was because Sandy and LindaB were members of the PTO and had heard rumors.

  I know of NO formal annoucement to parents or to average citizens that this was going to be even discussed.  So, I think the number of people who showed up (my guess is over 100) was large, considering there was no communication on this and no mention in the Life newspaper.

One parent who spoke said she came because she heard a rumor and was aghast to find out that the rumor was indeed fact.

  Ted

[Berwyn Patsy]

It  is starting to seem to me, that there may be little difference between the last school board members, and the new ones.  Communication between the school. parents and kids already seem to be a problem.
Ted, I was also watching for the agenda to come up last week.  I think the agenda for future meetings should be posted earlier then 24 hours, so as to give proper notice to those that would like to attend.

[MortonStudent08]

It was pointed out time after time that uniforms will NOT raise attendence or test scores.  I even brought up studies that proved that point.

I would like to know what you, as an MW student, believe needs to be done to raise attendance and test scores. 
No essay necessary, just outline a few problem areas.
Is there anything you believe may be inhibiting your further growth as a student and future in terms of college prep and acceptance?

Well, it looks like everyone beat me to the main issue: Communication.  Morton is notorious for its poor communication, with its students, parents, and community.  Something as simple as actually connecting with the students will earn the staff much more respect.  Right now, I cannot think of many students who actually respect the current school board or Dr. No.  They have time and time again shown that they don't put the students first.  How can you expect 8000 young people to follow your goals when they have no respect for you?  We need a leader at the helm.  I must commend Mr. Lucas, the West Campus principal, for his leadership skills.  He has been able to connect with his staff and students at West, and after only one year, attendance and test scores are on the rise.  I believe the West Campus is started to move in the right direction.  It takes time to overhaul a school district as large as ours.  The board is just trying to find a quick fix.  It's evident that many of the problems Dr. No and the board speak of are stemming from East.  They claim to know how the student think and act, but I do not see them spending time in the classrooms over at West.  By looking solely at the numbers, East is where the attention is needed. 

In regards to this "core curriculum" that is brought up, I don't see a problem with the requirements we have.  The only difference between Morton's requirements and those mentioned in the presentation is we require one less math credit and one half less social studies credit.  The reason for this is our school days are too short.  By only allowing students to take six classes a year, the bloated requirements would leave little room for electives like Art, Band, Choir, or Theater.  Also, in cases of myself and a number of fellow students, Morton does not offer everyone 4 years of math courses.  After taking two years of Algebra in middle school, I was only left with three math classes to take at Morton: Geometry, Pre-Calculus, and Calculus.  This year, there are 5 seniors who are left without a math class.  Some have opted to retake Calculus for no credit while others fill that spot with an elective.  Besides that, I don't see many problems Morton's curriculum poses when it comes to college acceptance.  If a student passes all his classes required to graduate at Morton, there should be no problem with them making it into a State school, assuming they have an acceptable GPA & ACT score.

While Cliff asked to hold the essay, I felt it would be inappropriate to only list a few problem areas without explaining them.  So I apologize now for making you waste an extra few minutes reading my post...

[Ted]

....  Also, in cases of myself and a number of fellow students, Morton does not offer everyone 4 years of math courses.  After taking two years of Algebra in middle school, I was only left with three math classes to take at Morton: Geometry, Pre-Calculus, and Calculus.  This year, there are 5 seniors who are left without a math class.  Some have opted to retake Calculus for no credit while others fill that spot with an elective.  Besides that, I don't see many problems Morton's curriculum poses when it comes to college acceptance.  ... 

  That IS the problem... the problem is a f**ked up math program.  This problem was been brought up a couple of times in CARES meetings, so I was not surprised by that the consulting group found the same problem. 

  I remember one mother practically screaming at the former board president because the math program was so f**cked up.   I also remember another mother complaining that her kids were basically paying Morton college to take math courses they should have been able to take for free in high school.

  We have kids who can't take the math courses they want or need to take and we have the opposite side of the spectrum in that 30% of the kids taking math fail and having to take the same course again.

  If those 30% had not failed and not had to re-take those classes, that would have freed up teachers and time to add other math classes,

  It all stems from the 30% failure rate causing a vicious circle for both the good students as well as the students who fail..

  Ted

[Suzy Q]

I also want to reiterate what MortonStudent08 said about having only 6 classes in a day.  That is pathetic.  There is no time to take any courses of interest that might want to make one come to school, therefore increasing the attendance rate.  The kids take their required courses and that's pretty much it.  Maybe they can take one class of interest.  When I was in school, I loved taking orchestra, choir, drama, etc.  This was my passion.  I could take them all because we had 7 or 8 classes in a day.