Here is the agenda for the 1/13 city council meeting. It looks like the most interesting items will be the veto of the filling of the two sergeants positions; the Salerno's situation; Sunday hours at the library and a proposed increase in the gasoline tax by 2 cents and an increase in the amount we pay for vehicle stickers.
BERWYN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
JANUARY 13, 2009
DEAR ATTENDEE.....THE MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL WELCOME YOU. PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT THIS IS A MEETING OF THE MAYOR AND COUNCIL MEMBERS AS OPPOSED TO A PUBLIC HEARING WHERE ATTENDEES ARE ENCOURAGED TO PARTICIPATE. UNLESS INVITED BY THE MAYOR TO SPEAK, YOU ARE REQUESTED NOT TO INTERRUPT. IF YOU ARE RECOGNIZED BY THE MAYOR, PLEASE PREFACE YOUR REMARKS BY STATING YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD. THANK YOU.
MICHAEL A. O'CONNOR THOMAS J. PAVLIK
MAYOR CITY CLERK
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AGENDA
ROLL CALL
(A) PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE - MOMENT OF SILENCE
(B) OPEN FORUM - (TOPIC MUST NOT BE ON THE AGENDA)
(C) PRESENTATION OF PREVIOUS MEETINGS MINUTES FOR APPROVAL
1. REG-12/23/08-COW-12/23/08-PUBLIC HEARING 12/23/08
(D) BID OPENING - TABULATIONS
(E) BERWYN DEVELOPMENT CORP.-BERWYN TOWNSHIP/HEALTH DISTRICT
(F) REPORTS AND COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE MAYOR
1. PROCLAMATION- JOANNE ZENDOL DAY
2. PROC- MORTON WEST H.S. VARSITY BOYS BASKETBALL TEAM DAY
3. PROC-MORTON WEST H.S. DRAMA CLUB DAY
4. MAYOR-PARKING 32ND ST AND HARLEM
5. MAYOR-LIBRARY BOARD-APPT-ROXANNE FAULDS
6. MAYOR-LIBRARY BUDGET AND SUNDAY HOURS
7. MAYOR-PROMOTION TO SERGEANT
8. MAYOR-REQ-FUNDING FOR MAPLE POOL
(G) REPORTS AND COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE CITY CLERK
1. CLOSED COW MINUTES-OCT 7, 14, 28, NOV. 11, 24, 25, DEC 9, 2008
(H) COMMUNICATIONS FROM ( ZONING) BOARD OF APPEALS
(I) REPORTS AND COMMUNICATIONS FROM ALDERMEN, COMMITTEES OTHER BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS
1. CHAPMAN-INCIDENT AT 3248 GROVE AVENUE
2. F&P COMM-FIRE GREVIENCE
(J) STAFF REPORTS
1. DEFER-LAW DEPT-SISTER CITY ORDINANCE
2. LAW DEPT-REMOVAL OF ITEMS FROM LAW DEPARTMENTS REFERRAL LIST
3. LAW-SETTLE CASE NO. 07 WC 47946(IL WORKERS COMP COMMISSION)
4. BUILDING DIR-DISPOSAL OF TWO INSPECTOR VEHICLES
5. FINANCE DIR-AMEND-ORD-895.02-GASOLINE TAX INCREASE
6. FINANCE DIR-AMEND-ORD-462.05-VEHICLE STICKER INCREASE
(K) CONSENT AGENDA: ALL ITEMS ON THE CONSENT AGENDA ARE CONSIDERED TO BE ROUTINE IN NATURE AND WILL BE ENACTED IN ONE MOTION. THERE WILL BE NO SEPARATE DISCUSSION OF THESE ITEMS UNLESS A COUNCIL MEMBER SO REQUESTS, IN WHICH EVENT THE ITEM WILL BE REMOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA AND CONSIDERED AS THE FIRST ITEM AFTER APPROVAL OF THE CONSENT AGENDA
1. BUDGET CHAIRMAN-PAYROLL-12/24/08-$837,998.31 & 1-7-09-$845,271.27
2. BUDGET CHAIRMAN-PAYABLES-1/13/09-$1,116,192.78
3. BUILDING DIR-BUILDING PERMITS ISSUED-DECEMBER, 2008
4. DAY-HANDICAP SIGN-VIRGINIA CLIFFORD-2313 HARVEY-DENY
5. DAY-HANDICAP SIGN-JUAN RAMIREZ-2248 ELMWOOD-DENY
6. ERICKSON-HANDICAP SIGN-MARIA ROMAN-1406 ELMWOOD-APPROVE
7. ERICKSON-HANDICAP SIGN-BLANCHE BAVONE-1449 MAPLE-APPROVE
ITEMS SUBMITTED ON TIME _25_
______________________________
THOMAS J. PAVLIK - CITY CLERK
In accordance with the provisions of the Americans with disabilities Act, any individual who is in the need of a reasonable accommodation in order to participate in or benefit from attendance at a public meeting of the City of Berwyn should contact Thomas J. Pavlik, City Clerk at 708/788-2660 as soon as possible before the meeting date.
This is a summary of the city council meeting that occurred on January 13, 2009. Alderman Ramos was absent from the meeting.
COW Meeting -
In the public part of the COW meeting, a new proposal has been put forth for the Berwyn Bank building block. A developer has proposed buying the area to the west of the bank building for $1.4 million dollars and buy the bank building for $1. There will be a medical office built on the vacant land and the developer would renovate the bank building and try to turn it into retail space. The developer would receive $500,000 in TIF funds and another $400,000 from the city. Alderman Phelan voiced concern that the developer had sat for 2 years and was now coming to the citu for $800K to $900K and would be on the hook to do something for only $500K. There was also concern expressed that there was no guarantee that turning the bank into retail space would work.
City Council meeting
1) Gas tax and vehicle sticker fee increase - The proposed increase in the gasoline tax from 1% to 3% and the increase in the vehicle sticker fee of $5 was voted down. The mayor stated that the 2009 would be in the red without the taxes and that salaries would have to be frozen next year without the increase.
Aldermen Chapman, Skryd, Phelan, Lovero adn Erickson voted NAY on the gas tax increase while Aldermen Weiner and Day voted AYE. Alderman Chapman stated that she was voting NAY because it would hurt the businesses of gas stations in Berwyn and people would just go to neighboring cities to get gasoline. Alderman Lovero echoed the sentiments expressed by Alderman Chapman and stated that the reason the gasoline tax was decreased in 1998 from 2% to 1% was because people were going to neighboring communities. The mayor disputed Alderman Lovero's recollection about why the gasoline tax was decreased in 1998.
On the vehcile sticker fee vote, Aldermen Weiner, Day and Lovero voted AYE to increase the vehicle sticker tax while Aldermen Chapman, Skryd, Phelan and Ercikson voted NAY. Alderman Chapman complained about the fact that the city had a new city stamp or logo or letter head (not sure which) indicating that Berwyn was celebrating its 101st anniversary in 2009. Alderman Chapman stated that not spending money on the new city stamp/logo/letter head would have precluded an increase in the vehicle sticker fee. Alderman Chapman also stated that the city should go back to having vehicle stickers that were in black and white rather than in color to save money.
Alderman Lovero stated he wanted to see the police department do a better job of enforcing the law that cars in the city must have vehicle stickers. On both votes, Alderman Skryd stated she was voting NAY because the economy was bad and that the city should not be asking for increases in taxes or fees.
The mayor then told the city council that by not increasing the gas tax and vehicle sticker fees, the city budget for 2009 would be in the red. The mayor called for two special COW meetings on 1/15 and on 1/22 to address the budget shortfall due to not voting for the tax increases. Alderman Chapman asked whether it was worth her time attending, stating that the mayor always shot down her suggestions for changes in the budget. The mayor stated that this was a "budget workshop" and that all suggestions would be welcome.
2. Veto of sergeants positions - The mayor presented his veto of the motion that passed in the 12/23 city council meeting to promote two people to sergeants positions. The mayor stated that this was a cost cutting measure and that it was hurting the city to "turn blue collars into white collars". The mayor claimed that the two sergeants positions had been replaced in the 2009 budget with 3 street officers.
Alderman Chapman claimed that the mayor had not investigated what the increase in the budget would be. Alderman Chapman alleged that the increase in the budget to promote two individuals to sergeant was only $3,000 and that the overtime paid last year to sergeants to work overtime was over $1,000 in a specific two week period. Alderman Chapman alleged that the mayor was vetoing the promotions for political reasons and she implied with her numbers that it is costing the city more money to pay overtime to existing sergeants than it would be to promote two individuals.
Alderman Lovero made a statement that Police Chief Kushner was "tap dancing" at the last city council meeting and that Kushner did not disagree directly with the mayor at the last city council meeting because he was afraid of losing his job.The mayor responded to Lovero by saying that Lovero's statements were insulting to Chief Kushner. The mayor further claimed that the city council could not force the police chief to promote someone.
Alderman Phelan asked Alderman Chapman why the communication came from Alderman Chapman rather than from Police Chief Kushner himself. Chapman replied that the communication came from the police and fire committee.
3. Fireman injured on treadmill - A fireman using a treadmill injured himself on the treadmill and has sued the city, asking for workman's comp as well as money for pain and suffering. Because of this incident, the mayor ordered the removal of all exercise equipment form the fire hours. The firemen's union filed a grievance against the city to stop the removal of the exercise equipment. The recommendation to the police and fire committee by the city attorney's was to deny the grievance but to also keep the exercise equipment in place until the issue was settled by an arbitrator.
The mayor complained about the fact that a fireman was suing the city for pain and suffering and for workman's comp because he had injured himself on a treadmill. The mayor stated he could understand a fireman receiving workman's comp for being injured while fighting a fire but he thought it was ridiculous for the city to have to pay pain and suffering to someone who injured himself on a treadmill. The mayor stated that was why he ordered the removal of exercise equipment from the fire houses. The mayor stated that the firemen could exercise at the gym at the police department.
Alderman Chapman then posed the 'slippery slope" argument - that if the city removed exercise equipment, then the city should also remove lounge chairs because a fireman could also injure himself leaning backwards on a lounge chair and that, by the mayor's argument, the city should remove all TV remote control devices from fire stations because firemen might injure their thumbs on the remote control.
The mayor responded that if a firemen sued the city asking for pain and suffering for injuring his thumb on a TV remote control, then yes, the mayor stated he would order the removal of remote control devices from the fire houses.
Alderman Lovero claimed that the city did not buythe exercise equipment and stated it was paid for out of the firemen's fund. Therefore, the city could not remove the equipment.
Ultimately the city council voted to not deny the grievance and allow the exercise equipment to stay in the firehouses by a vote of 4 to 3. Alderman Day stated he voted to deny the grievance because he wanted to follow the city lawyer's recommendation to deny the grievance, leave the exercise equipment in the fire houses and let an arbitrator decide.
4. Salerno's - The mayor announced that the city will be holding a liquor license hearing on January 16 about a recent incident at Salerno's where the city found over 260 people crowded into an area that is licensed for only 140 people. The mayor stated that Salerno's has violated the law and that Salerno's will be held accountable. The mayor stated that the incident was addressed immediately when it was found out.
Alderman Chapman stated that Salerno's should not be operating with its liquor license without serving food and that folding up tables to create a dance club was contrary to the liquor license that Salerno had. Salerno's had paid a liquor license fee to allow for a higher amount of space. Alderman Chapman made a motion to refund Salerno's its increased fee of $500 and that all information about previous police incidents and liquor license hearings involving Salernos' should be sent to her.
Alderman Weiner stated that he was fine with Alderman Chapman getting as much information as she wanted but he was opposed to refunding the $500 that Salerno's paid to change its liquor license. Alderman Chapman's original motion was voted down, with 4 NAYs and 3 AYEs. Alderman Chapman then made a second motion to ask for police incident reports and liquor hearings involving Salernos and that passed.
5. 1996 vehicles - There was a motion on the agenda to dispose of two city vehicles that were 12 years old. Alderman Chapman objected to the disposing of the vehicles, saying that one vehicle had only 57,000 miles on it while the other vehicle had just over 80,000 miles. Alderman Chapman claimed that all the city needed to do was fix the transmission.
The mayor responded that both vehicles had had a long history of maintenance that was costing the city money and that it would be better to dispose of the vehicles rather than continue to maintain them. Alderman Chapman asked to see the maintenance history. The mayor responded that Alderman Lovero had the maintenance history. Several other alderman asked to see the maintenance history so the item was deferred for 2 weeks and copies of the maintenance history will be sent to all aldermen.
6. Sunday hours at the library - The city council approved having the library be open on Sundays. It was stated that this could be done within the approved 2009 budget.
7. Maple pool - The funding for the Maple pool was withdrawn at the request of Joe Vallez of the North Berwyn Park District.
8. Sister cities - The council approved an ordinance making Berwyn part of the Sister City program. It was asked how much it would cost Berwyn to be part of the sister city program and the answer was $685. There was discussion as to whether this $685 was in the budget and whether it needed to be added to the budget. Aldermen Phelan and Erickson voted NAY and the other aldermen voted AYE.
9. Fireman's pension fund - A Berwyn fireman who lives in Orland Park spoke in the open forum of the meeting again criticizing the city for not funding its share of the pension fund. The gentleman claimed that a circuit court had ruled in favor of the fireman's union and that the city would be forced to contribute more to the pension fund. The fireman claimed that firemen could not receive social security and that the fireman's pension fund was not secure in its funding such as other funds such as the IMRF (Municipal Retirement Fund??).
10. Honors and proclamations - Joanne Zendol, the Morton basketball team and the Morton drama club were all honored with proclamations.
The gasoline tax was proposed to increase from $.01 per gallon to $.03 per gallon, not per cent. It was interesting to hear the economists come out in full force tonight. A difference of 2 cents is not going to cause a mass exodus of gasoline purchases in Berwyn.
Chapman felt there could be a savings of $1 to $2 per city sticker. I think she is nuts.
If the city owns the firestation, why CAN'T it remove equipment? If a firefighter brings in a whirlpool, because the city did not purchase it, Ald. Lovero would not remove it? If the firemen are working out with equipment provided by those funds, there is no reason why they should not then be required to pass a fitness test. As for the argument they are required to be fit, then they can work out on their free time, just like the police or any other city worker.
I believe the mayor stated that Lovero's statement that Chief Kushner is afraid for his job was dumbest thing he's ever hear in his 12 years of council.
At what point do the aldermen understand that they cannot keep cutting revenue and expect employees (who are the biggest expense) to keep their jobs? Their stupid political games are getting tiring and are just an impediment to addressing more important issues.
I think the mayor was particularly angry about the fireman's law suit because the law suit is allegedly claiming that the injury was "in the line of duty" because exercising to keep in shape was part of the fireman's job.
It does raise an interesting issue in my mind - if the fire house is a fireman's "home away from home" and the injury occurred on exercise equipment that was not owned by the city, is this an "on the job" injury or is this an "at home" injury?
If firemen are going to claim that they are Berwyn residents because they spend 1/3 of their time "living" at a Berwyn fire house, then I would think that hurting yourself on a treadmill was a "home" injury, not an "injury in the line of duty".
Ted
As usual though it sounded to me like not only was Alderman Chapman a little nuts,
again the Mayor comes across as also a little crazed!
Alderman Chapman (I think she feels a lot like myself in regards to OC) is going to
pick apart every move of OC's. No surprise here. He in return gets angry, spurts off and
the games begin. He should state his case, and then simply say "next item please". So much
time wasted by bickering. He should set the example.
As far a the gasoline tax hike, it would depend on how your financial situation was, if you
were going to drive out of Berwyn to save 2 cents.
"Ordering" the exercise equipment out of the fire dept. I bet it was all IN the way OC demanded
that.
Looks like Salerno's might might have slide by for the time being. I am sure Salerno's does not mind
paying the fines, when they are most likely to be making $4000-$5000 a night on the weekends.
More time should be spent on honoring Berwyns stars, present and future. The library hours opening
on sundays, was the highlight of the meeting in my opinion.
How come nobody mentions that when the b-ball team was being honored the Mayor was completly incoherent as to what was going on? Even the boys on the team were asking if he was asleep. What a shame this guy is. If it isn't what he wants to talk about his way then he won't even acknowledge whats going on . The man is a disgrace.
Sure lets put a medical facility in superblock. Tax exempt right?
Is this the same medical facility that wanted the Ahern property?
Heard that Meijer wants to sign a letter of intent for Cermak plaza. OC doesn't want it. Would rather have F4L. Go figure.
Quote from: Bear on January 14, 2009, 08:16:58 AM
Is this the same medical facility that wanted the Ahern property?
Do you mean Marik
Quote from: FedUp on January 14, 2009, 08:17:38 AM
Heard that Meijer wants to sign a letter of intent for Cermak plaza. OC doesn't want it. Would rather have F4L. Go figure.
"I heard that..."
uh huh...
The developer for the medical building represents a for profit medical group. Only if the building were to be owned by a non profit group, such as a hospital, would it be tax exempt.
Quote from: Ted on January 14, 2009, 06:08:51 AM
It does raise an interesting issue in my mind - if the fire house is a fireman's "home away from home" and the injury occurred on exercise equipment that was not owned by the city, is this an "on the job" injury or is this an "at home" injury?
If firemen are going to claim that they are Berwyn residents because they spend 1/3 of their time "living" at a Berwyn fire house, then I would think that hurting yourself on a treadmill was a "home" injury, not an "injury in the line of duty".
Yep. It's home enough for them to be part of city government, so why not? ;D
Felix, what's your take on this added "pain and suffering" along with the comp time deal?
Quote from: FedUp on January 14, 2009, 08:18:28 AM
Quote from: Bear on January 14, 2009, 08:16:58 AM
Is this the same medical facility that wanted the Ahern property?
Do you mean Marik
Ah yes...wrong funeral home
Quote from: Berwyn Batsy on January 14, 2009, 06:42:10 AM
Alderman Chapman is going to pick apart every move of OC's. No surprise here.
So much time wasted by bickering. He should set the example.
SHE should set an example for the DCoB, since they want the power to screw the taxpayers.
I didn't see much bickering.
DCOB had three people recording the meeting. They certainly didn't capture any footage as interesting as this past summer.
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on January 14, 2009, 08:46:06 AM
DCOB had three people recording the meeting.
Who, and where's the footage?
Footage to be released as a Lifetime Movie Event
Only three?
LOL!!!!
Quote from: FedUp on January 14, 2009, 08:51:51 AM
Footage to be released as a Lifetime Movie Event
LMFAO!
This probably should be a whole other thread, but------going back to the fireman
suing the city. This by the way has nothing to do with the fact it's a fireman suing it could be anybody.
How badly was he injured? Was he sucked up under the thread mill and flattened out , like
a pancake, has he lost the ability to walk the rest of his life? Did fall on his face, go blind? What?
Some people just like to sue, win money, collect workmens comp and not work. I am not saying
this is the case in Berwyn. Americans love to sue others, I think that can nearly be considered a fact.
Quote from: Berwyn Patsy on January 14, 2009, 09:19:35 AM
This probably should be a whole other thread, but------going back to the fireman
suing the city. This by the way has nothing to do with the fact it's a fireman suing it could be anybody.
How badly was he injured? Was he sucked up under the thread mill and flattened out , like
a pancake, has he lost the ability to walk the rest of his life? Did fall on his face, go blind? What?
Some people just like to sue, win money, collect workmens comp and not work. I am not saying
this is the case in Berwyn. Americans love to sue others, I think that can nearly be considered a fact.
It was stated he did not even fall off the treadmill.
Quote from: BPHow badly was he injured? Was he sucked up under the thread mill and flattened out , like
a pancake
lol, BP!!! Like the Jetsons!
Yeah, that's the ticket...
http://www.youtube.com/v/lW0JIICBoPs&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6
Firehouse treadmill
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on January 14, 2009, 12:51:02 AM
Chapman felt there could be a savings of $1 to $2 per city sticker. I think she is nuts.
So you don't think it's worth it to the city to look at changing to a simple, smaller black-and-white sticker, rather than the large full-color version with seal? Nona works for an art designer, I tend to have to think she knows a little about the cost of a design. Even if it saves us only $0.50/sticker, how many cars do we have in Berwyn? 50,000? That's $25K saved right there from one simple suggestion. That's $100K over four years. Seeing as many households have 3+ cars, I think the 50,000 figure is realistic.
Also, it seems Nona was upset because a city employee
drove the design out to the designer, using a city vehicle. Why not just e-mail it or, shudder, mail it?????
This is the thing about O'Connor - he micro-manages certain areas that don't need it, yet completely mismanages (or doesn't manage) other things that end up costing the city tens of thousands of dollars.
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on January 14, 2009, 12:51:02 AM
I believe the mayor stated that Lovero's statement that Chief Kushner is afraid for his job was dumbest thing he's ever hear in his 12 years of council.
Why would that be dumb? Many of the department heads are yes-men ready to rubber stamp O'Connor's crappy proposals and tell him what he wants to hear. When council actually calls them out on items (think Public Works), they cower away because they don't want to say anything that will reflect negatively on the mayor. The PW salt machine is broken, and the PW director says it's been broken for 5 years, insinuating that it happened before O'Connor was elected. Well, hello, why did you just find out about it now after 5 years? What kind of management is that? Maybe O'Connor should be micromanaging this area instead - is that why we paid substantially more money than many communities for our salt, because we bought it way too late, and why we are already virtually out of salt and mixing it with
sand, which will destroy our sewers??
This is what happens when a let a button salesman run your town
Quote from: Berwyn Patsy on January 14, 2009, 09:19:35 AM
This probably should be a whole other thread, but------going back to the fireman
suing the city. This by the way has nothing to do with the fact it's a fireman suing it could be anybody.
How badly was he injured? Was he sucked up under the thread mill and flattened out , like
a pancake, has he lost the ability to walk the rest of his life? Did fall on his face, go blind? What?
Some people just like to sue, win money, collect workmens comp and not work. I am not saying
this is the case in Berwyn. Americans love to sue others, I think that can nearly be considered a fact.
This fireman is not or does not want to sue the city. When he got hurt he reported it to the powers that be and the HR director told him according to the insurance co. it is a workmans comp claim. So to say the fireman wants to sue and collect w.c. is incorrect yet OC cries foul. The last thing this fireman wanted was a workmans comp claim.
Quote from: AngieBear68 on January 14, 2009, 09:43:32 AM
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on January 14, 2009, 12:51:02 AM
Chapman felt there could be a savings of $1 to $2 per city sticker. I think she is nuts.
So you don't think it's worth it to the city to look at changing to a simple, smaller black-and-white sticker, rather than the large full-color version with seal? Nona works for an art designer, I tend to have to think she knows a little about the cost of a design. Even if it saves us only $0.50/sticker, how many cars do we have in Berwyn? 50,000? That's $25K saved right there from one simple suggestion. That's $100K over four years. Seeing as many households have 3+ cars, I think the 50,000 figure is realistic.
Also, it seems Nona was upset because a city employee drove the design out to the designer, using a city vehicle. Why not just e-mail it or, shudder, mail it?????
This is the thing about O'Connor - he micro-manages certain areas that don't need it, yet completely mismanages (or doesn't manage) other things that end up costing the city tens of thousands of dollars.
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on January 14, 2009, 12:51:02 AM
I believe the mayor stated that Lovero's statement that Chief Kushner is afraid for his job was dumbest thing he's ever hear in his 12 years of council.
Why would that be dumb? Many of the department heads are yes-men ready to rubber stamp O'Connor's crappy proposals and tell him what he wants to hear. When council actually calls them out on items (think Public Works), they cower away because they don't want to say anything that will reflect negatively on the mayor. The PW salt machine is broken, and the PW director says it's been broken for 5 years, insinuating that it happened before O'Connor was elected. Well, hello, why did you just find out about it now after 5 years? What kind of management is that? Maybe O'Connor should be micromanaging this area instead - is that why we paid substantially more money than many communities for our salt, because we bought it way too late, and why we are already virtually out of salt and mixing it with sand, which will destroy our sewers??
This is what happens when a let a button salesman run your town
You aren't going to save that much money from a sticker. The number of stickers is around 30k or so. In anycase, the fools put us in a deeper hole with the budget.
The chief doesn't strike me as a yes man. He has been aggressive in his cost saving measures.
Why do you want ANYONE micromanaging? And if you read the newspaper, you would know that salt prices skyrocketed for just about every community.
Yeah, let's make Berwyn even more ghetto with black and white block letter stickers.
When you go anywhere other than Berwyn you might as well be wearing an orange jumpsuit with block letters on the back: D O C
Lower the quality of the sticker, and we're still effectively paying $1-2 more for.....less.
Hey, Lovero likes to model Chicago (to a fault) ...their stickers are $75-120.
We have an exercise room at work. All employees have to sign a waiver before using it. Maybe we should get the BFP a Wii with some of their excercise games. Dance Dance Revolution in SCBA anyone? That would keep them fit (though at risk for a heat stroke!)
I whole heartedly agree the fireman and also the policemen of any city, town, etc., should
have physical fitness programs incorporated into the jobs as part of their job descriptions.
We do not nor does anyone need overweight, FM OR PM. It is as unhealthy for them as it is
for our safety.
As I thought my statement would be taken wrong by some, please let me say I believe the
Fire and police should have some space in their buildings (what about the new PD?) with workout
equipment to use as part of their daily job routines. They should have to weigh in every 30 days.
Signing a waiver could be considered. Then suing would not be an option. The Mayor should be in
support of healthy, physically fit FM and PM. He has himself struggled with a weight problem, as all
of us have I am sure at one time or another. Of course NOT Zorba. He is just to perfect!! lol.
Quote from: FedUp on January 14, 2009, 08:01:40 AM
How come nobody mentions that when the b-ball team was being honored the Mayor was completly incoherent as to what was going on? Even the boys on the team were asking if he was asleep. What a shame this guy is. If it isn't what he wants to talk about his way then he won't even acknowledge whats going on . The man is a disgrace.
Huh?? What the heck are you talking about? The city clerk read the proclamation, then the mayor made a short statement saying he thought part of the team's success was due to the Berwyn rec programs, then Alderman Lovero made a statement saying the parents also deserve credit and that the parents should be acknowledged and then the team's picture was taken.
What do you mean the mayor was "asleep" ? And what do you mean that "he won't even acknowledge whats going on"? The proclamation was read, the mayor made the statement about the Berwyn Rec program being part of the reason for the success, Aldermen Lovero made his statement that the parents should share in the success and then a picture of the boys was taken.
How does that imply that the mayor was "sleeping" or that "he didn't acknowledge what was going on"?
F.U. were you even at the council meeting? If you were, you must have been in some alternate universe because your description of the honoring of the boys basketball team does not even remotely match what happened.
Ted
Quote from: AngieBear68 on January 14, 2009, 09:43:32 AM
Also, it seems Nona was upset because a city employee drove the design out to the designer, using a city vehicle.
I don't remember Nona making that statement. Maybe you and FedUp were in some other city council meeting that was going on in an alternate DCOB universe that the rest of us were not privy to... :D ;D :D
Nona's long and rambling statement trying to connect the new city letter head to the fee for a vehicle sticker didn't make much sense to me. I did not understand the connection between the fee for a vehicle sticker and the new letterhead for the city.
Ted
Ted, Ted, Ted,
remember who you are talking to,,,,,,,
Its not worth getting worked up. People who were present know what happened.
You know if O'c wanted to get that passed he should have had someone else introduce it. Then voice his displeasure with the idea, and it would have gotten passed.
Just want to mention the mayor must be as excited as the rest of us Morton hoops fans, he was at pack the place last Friday night for the girls and boys varsity games. He apparently has the fever too!!
Was he asleep?
The Police Chief a "yes" man! That is a joke.
Reality dictates, though, that Department Heads are subject to their boss, i.e., the Mayor. Yet, the Police Chief
is not a yes man, nor in fear of being fired.
It is interesting Angie how you view things. Certainly, subjective.
Digress: the union contract does not force a firefighter to retire after 30 years, but it does reduce a firefighter's
pension if the firefighter remains after 30 years. I call that forced retirement.
We would be much better off with a real estate attorney running the city. Yeah right. Button salesman? What the heck is the difference
between a button salesman and a real esate attorney?
Seems to me, the residents should be much more excited about the drama team winning big, rather than the b-ball team.
I now know why our Rec Department is so bad. The coach at Morton has no time for Berwyn. He only has time for Cicero
or his h.s. basketball team.
Punch line please.
Quote from: tony la on January 14, 2009, 01:27:09 PM
You know if O'c wanted to get that passed he should have had someone else introduce it. Then voice his displeasure with the idea, and it would have gotten passed.
Tony, what agenda item were you referring to?
Quote from: ZORBA on January 14, 2009, 01:55:18 PM
Was he asleep?
No he was not asleep. He had his picture taken with the boys. That is why I don't understand FU's post at all, unless one of the boys was confused and thought that someone else was the mayor.
Ted
Quote from: Ted on January 14, 2009, 02:03:35 PM
Quote from: tony la on January 14, 2009, 01:27:09 PM
You know if O'c wanted to get that passed he should have had someone else introduce it. Then voice his displeasure with the idea, and it would have gotten passed.
Tony, what agenda item were you referring to?
The gas tax and the sticker increase. Im going to add a little speach from Mr. Daley on voting for increases<object width="320" height="265"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2ashM23pslk&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0xcc2550&color2=0xe87a9f"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2ashM23pslk&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0xcc2550&color2=0xe87a9f" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="320" height="265"></embed></object>
LOL...great one, Tony.
http://www.youtube.com/v/2ashM23pslk&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0xcc2550&color2=0xe87a9f
My bad Ted,
During open forum while a fireman was reading a grievance the Mayor looked to be asleep and completely incoherent as to what was going on. This was noticed by all the boys on the b-ball team. Asking each other if he was sleeping. This is a good way to reflect upon our youth how the grownups handle their city business.
Quote from: FedUp on January 14, 2009, 03:39:54 PM
This is a good way to reflect upon our youth how the grownups handle their city business.
Then they had to listen to Nona and Bobby...OH BOY!
Quote from: Bonster on January 14, 2009, 03:45:44 PM
Quote from: FedUp on January 14, 2009, 03:39:54 PM
This is a good way to reflect upon our youth how the grownups handle their city business.
Then they had to listen to Nona and Bobby...OH BOY!
Not much different huh?
Quote from: FedUp on January 14, 2009, 03:49:54 PM
Quote from: Bonster on January 14, 2009, 03:45:44 PM
Quote from: FedUp on January 14, 2009, 03:39:54 PM
This is a good way to reflect upon our youth how the grownups handle their city business.
Then they had to listen to Nona and Bobby...OH BOY!
Not much different huh?
My favorite quote was from a big supporter of the DCoB...paraphrased: "They're both nuts. Truthfully, I can't tell the difference between Mike (OC) and Nona - they're the same goddamn person, only one's a female."
(They were alluding to their politics, not looks)
Bonster,
Picture a side by side silhouette of the 2......
Quote from: FedUp on January 14, 2009, 09:55:48 AM
This fireman is not or does not want to sue the city. When he got hurt he reported it to the powers that be and the HR director told him according to the insurance co. it is a workmans comp claim. So to say the fireman wants to sue and collect w.c. is incorrect yet OC cries foul. The last thing this fireman wanted was a workmans comp claim.
The fireman had the option of not bringing a law suit against the city. No one put a gun to his head and say "sue the city". If the fireman did indeed file a law suit, that means the fireman WANTS to sue the city. He had the option to not sue the city and he chose not to use that option.
If the fireman is suing simply to get workman comp, then why also sue for pain and suffering? And, why not just take sick days if it was a minor injury?
How serious was the injury? Was it something like a groin pull where the guy is out for a couple of days? Or is it something where he will be out for months?
Ted
Quote from: FedUp on January 14, 2009, 03:39:54 PM
My bad Ted,
During open forum while a fireman was reading a grievance the Mayor looked to be asleep and completely incoherent as to what was going on. This was noticed by all the boys on the b-ball team. Asking each other if he was sleeping. This is a good way to reflect upon our youth how the grownups handle their city business.
OK. I thought you were saying he was not paying attention during the proclamation for the bball team.
It seems like every city council meeting that I have attended for the past 6 months, some employee representing one of the unions complains during the open forum portion of the city council meeting. It's become a regular occurence during the open forum.
Maybe that's why the mayor look bored. It's the same song over and over and over again. For example, Jerry Marzullo, representing the fire fighters, registered the union's complaint about the funding of the pension funds at the 12/23 meeting.
Ted
Ted,
Workers comp in this instance is not a bad deal for the city.
The city basically has tort immunity by paying wc insurance.
Good tradeoff, imo.
So they settle this claim for whatever minimal amount its worth and thats the end of the story.
Now if you want to debate the propriety (ethical or otherwise) of this specific fireman filing a claim, that's another story altogether....
Maybe Felix can chime in and tell us how this is a good example of why the City should settle potential claims against it asap.
With respect to OC, his reaction is understandable ..... the city has to pay out for an "injury" that occurred on exercise equipment SOMEBODY ELSE brought to the fire station. The logical response is to remove the equipment, but then you may have that good ole CBA standing in the way. So you leave the equipment there, pay out for the injury accrued during exercise, as that too is "in the scope of employment" ;) ;), and basically eliminate any other/additional potential liability the City may have.
I wonder if the City would be liable per wc if Felix had, for example, cut his finger at his alternate home/firehouse opening a can of San Marzano tomatoes (from Tonini's, of course) to make pasta gravy for the boys dinner?
Can anyone tell me why the North Berwyn Park District asked the City Recreation to not fund Maple pool?
Quote from: Sandy on January 14, 2009, 06:21:39 PM
Can anyone tell me why the North Berwyn Park District asked the City Recreation to not fund Maple pool?
I do not remember any explanation being given.
Ted
I agree with OC removing the exercise equipment because of the workmens comp lawsuit. I would say it's up to employees to stay in physically fit condition if that is what is required for a job. Maybe reimbursement for a health club membership or a collateral agreement with a health club facility would work and take the city out of the line of fire. Whatever the case, I would say exercise equipment is not a required part of the job. I would consider it a perk.
Well let me put it to you this way....
Firefighters are at the station for 24 hr. periods,
they do have free time after the work day, but many times put in
a much longer day than you or I do because of calls.
During that free time, I am very glad that they are exercising
to stay in shape...Remember...They may have to pull you or my fat arse
out of the third floor of a house if it ever caught fire...
I would be very pleased if the firefighter escorting me down the ladder had arms like Arnold...My odds of making it to the ground in one piece would greatly increase.
That's great.
So physical fitness is a prerequisite?
Are there any mandatory physical fitness requirements for FD members, or is it basically a matter of choice?
Quote from: ZORBA on January 14, 2009, 08:51:59 PM
That's great.
So physical fitness is a prerequisite?
Are there any mandatory physical fitness requirements for FD members, or is it basically a matter of choice?
Yes, and I would not want a fat Greek like you to ATTEMPT a rescue...
But I would be pleased if you made me dinner...
Come on Zobra...certain jobs have physical requirement...
There is a young gal who is an EMT with BFD...She is buff...
and can manage any patient out quickly in any given situation...
Would you or your family be concerned if there was an event
and your responder had difficulty/slow response time due to physical limitation?
I think so.
Quote from: Bear on January 14, 2009, 08:48:04 PM
Firefighters are at the station for 24 hr. periods,
they do have free time after the work day, but many times put in
a much longer day than you or I do because of calls.
All the more reason not to be exercising. They should be conserving their energy to save our fat asses.
Quote from: Bear on January 14, 2009, 09:11:45 PM
Yes, and I would not want a fat Greek like you to ATTEMPT a rescue...
I asked a f@#$in question, you pasty faced alcoholic buck toothed Mr. Ed look alike pansy.......
Whether or not
I am in shape is irrelevant... I'm no longer being paid to be in shape ... but at least at SOME point in my life I
WAS in shape, good enough to play NCAA Division I ball ....
... and I'm still in good enough shape to run circles around you in the sport of your choice, excluding of course 12 oz curling and salami slamming ....
QuoteBut I would be pleased if you made me dinner...
I'll get to it as soon as you fetch my coffee and finish shining my shoes.
QuoteWould you or your family be concerned if there was an event
and your responder had difficulty/slow response time due to physical limitation?
My family would be
VERY concerned if our survival depended on the fitness level of
CERTAIN members of the Berwyn (and other towns) FD.
Now go have another Hamms and shut your trap.
The question remains, and its a serious one-are there any physical fitness
REQUIREMENTS (initial and/or ongoing) of the BFD?
I'm asking because I don't know.
Quote from: Bear on January 14, 2009, 09:11:45 PM
Quote from: ZORBA on January 14, 2009, 08:51:59 PM
That's great.
So physical fitness is a prerequisite?
Are there any mandatory physical fitness requirements for FD members, or is it basically a matter of choice?
Yes, and I would not want a fat Greek like you to ATTEMPT a rescue...
But I would be pleased if you made me dinner...
Come on Zobra...certain jobs have physical requirement...
There is a young gal who is an EMT with BFD...She is buff...
and can manage any patient out quickly in any given situation...
Would you or your family be concerned if there was an event
and your responder had difficulty/slow response time due to physical limitation?
I think so.
EMT's are not employees of the city.
And, you are telling me these guys follow such a strict training regime that their fitness will suffer because they can't work out during one 24 hour period?
If they need to be fit, they should be required to pass some fitness test. Run a distance, climb several flights of stairs etc. I've seen some of the guys at council. You cannot be serious that they are all working out.
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on January 14, 2009, 09:32:20 PM
EMT's are not employees of the city.
Minor detail for the bumbling idiot... :D ;D :D
QuoteIf they need to be fit, they should be required to pass some fitness test. Run a distance, climb several flights of stairs etc. I've seen some of the guys at council. You cannot be serious that they are all working out.
That's what I'm asking. Are they REQUIRED to continuously stay in some sort of shape?
So what REQU
Quote from: ZORBA on January 14, 2009, 09:29:02 PM
Quote from: Bear on January 14, 2009, 09:11:45 PM
Yes, and I would not want a fat Greek like you to ATTEMPT a rescue...
I asked a f@#$in question, you pasty faced alcoholic buck toothed Mr. Ed look alike pansy.......
Whether or not I am in shape is irrelevant... I'm no longer being paid to be in shape ... but at least at SOME point in my life I WAS in shape, good enough to play NCAA Division I ball ....
... and I'm still in good enough shape to run circles around you in the sport of your choice, excluding of course 12 oz curling and salami slamming ....
QuoteBut I would be pleased if you made me dinner...
I'll get to it as soon as you fetch my coffee and finish shining my shoes.
QuoteWould you or your family be concerned if there was an event
and your responder had difficulty/slow response time due to physical limitation?
My family would be VERY concerned if our survival depended on the fitness level of CERTAIN members of the Berwyn (and other towns) FD.
Now go have another Hamms and shut your trap.
The question remains, and its a serious one-are there any physical fitness REQUIREMENTS (initial and/or ongoing) of the BFD?
I'm asking because I don't know.
Damn zobra...I have no clue how to answer this deal...
You are a hurting dude man, I hope you get some help.
Maybe Andy's job should offer some Anger Management Counseling?
Why is it, you can call people names, insult them to high heaven, be SO mean
spirited and then when your referred to as a Big Fat Greek, out of shape no doubt,
you blow a gasket? It is not good for your mental or physical health.
Hey Patsy, when have I referred to anyone's ethnic group? Ever?
Quote from: Bear on January 14, 2009, 10:32:04 PM
Quote from: ZORBA on January 14, 2009, 09:29:02 PM
Quote from: Bear on January 14, 2009, 09:11:45 PM
Yes, and I would not want a fat Greek like you to ATTEMPT a rescue...
I asked a f@#$in question, you pasty faced alcoholic buck toothed Mr. Ed look alike pansy.......
Whether or not I am in shape is irrelevant... I'm no longer being paid to be in shape ... but at least at SOME point in my life I WAS in shape, good enough to play NCAA Division I ball ....
... and I'm still in good enough shape to run circles around you in the sport of your choice, excluding of course 12 oz curling and salami slamming ....
QuoteBut I would be pleased if you made me dinner...
I'll get to it as soon as you fetch my coffee and finish shining my shoes.
QuoteWould you or your family be concerned if there was an event
and your responder had difficulty/slow response time due to physical limitation?
My family would be VERY concerned if our survival depended on the fitness level of CERTAIN members of the Berwyn (and other towns) FD.
Now go have another Hamms and shut your trap.
The question remains, and its a serious one-are there any physical fitness REQUIREMENTS (initial and/or ongoing) of the BFD?
I'm asking because I don't know.
Damn zobra...I have no clue how to answer this deal...
You are a hurting dude man, I hope you get some help.
You can't, you drunken imbecile.
Quote from: Berwyn Patsy on January 15, 2009, 05:38:13 AM
Maybe Andy's job should offer some Anger Management Counseling?
Why is it, you can call people names, insult them to high heaven, be SO mean
spirited and then when your referred to as a Big Fat Greek, out of shape no doubt,
you blow a gasket? It is not good for your mental or physical health.
I can GUARANTEE you Patsy that I'm in better physical condition than at least a FEW firefighters.
In fact, in a 50yd dash, I bet I could beat at least one, running backwards..........................
Difference is, I'm not paid to stay in shape. Nor is any Berwyn TAXPAYER paying me to stay in shape.
But, in all fairness, I'm sure the Berwyn Firefighter union has no problem with physical fitnees testing of their members, especially when they (firefighters) go out and purchase fitness equipment in furtherance of their employment.
Quote from: Berwyn Patsy on January 15, 2009, 05:38:13 AM
Maybe Andy's job should offer some Anger Management Counseling?
Why is it, you can call people names, insult them to high heaven, be SO mean
spirited and then when your referred to as a Big Fat Greek, out of shape no doubt,
you blow a gasket? It is not good for your mental or physical health.
Berwyn Patsy needs anger management counseling, for getting all over folks who crap on someone's PUBLIC newspaper columns; columns in which they crap on others.
Quote from: tonro on January 14, 2009, 01:56:14 PM
Seems to me, the residents should be much more excited about the drama team winning big, rather than the b-ball team.
Why not be excited about both?
Just an FYI, the seniors on the basketball team are doing well academically. The top student academically at Morton West plays on the b-ball team and is going to Yale. 3 of the seniors who play on the b-ball team are Illinois State Scholars (out of a total of 42 Illinois State Scholars for the entire school).
So, some of the seniors on the b-ball team are doing just as well academically as they are on the court. I say kudos to both the b-ball team and the drama team.
Ted
yes..."drama" in Berwyn. No doubt about that.
I don't know why but when I saw that the drama club was in the city council it kind of made me chuckle because of all the drama that was there already
Article of "Aldermen votes plunges Berwyn into the Red- Mayor"... blah.
Reality is Mr. Mayor, Auto Sticker fees should NEVER EVER be viewed as revenue makers... EVER. Fees/fines are tools to drive behavior NOT FILL IN BUDGETS.
You raise fees beyond what is "normal" and people will stop registering their cars... they will start making fake stickers... they will start acting in the exact opposite way you want them to act. You will end up with less control over cars in Berwyn AND still have budget shortfalls.
It is the responsibility of the Mayor/Aldermen to get us in the green. We need to have a surplus or we will pay dearly if/when our community needs to borrow funds from the muni market. Credit is drying up, the cost of credit will soon rise.
Don't raise taxes, fees or fines and get Berwyn back in the green... OR STEP DOWN AND LET OTHERS MORE COMPETENT SHOW YOU HOW IT'S DONE.
I'm also frustrated with the media... garbage reporting. What ever happened to investigative reporting? It seems writers just take the Press Releases and copy/paste.
"Don't raise taxes, fees or fines and get Berwyn back in the green... OR STEP DOWN AND LET OTHERS MORE COMPETENT SHOW YOU HOW IT'S DONE"
n01...Take a look at the increase in our LEGAL expense over the
past four years...I know of one case where it cost the city 50k
because of OC's ineptitude. And that is a mere tip of the iceberg.
The entire article:
###
http://www.mysuburbanlife.com/berwyn/news/x1943021789/Berwyn-aldermen-s-vote-plunges-budget-into-red-mayor
Berwyn aldermen's vote plunges budget into red: mayor
By Staff reports
Berwyn Life Thu Jan 15, 2009, 06:58 PM CST
Two proposals that would have raised more than $150,000 for Berwyn coffers were shot down by aldermen late Tuesday night, sparking criticism from the mayor.
City staff and City Council members are working on formulating the 2009 budget, which is supposed to be approved in the spring.
The draft budget included a provision to increase vehicle sticker prices by $5 across the board, except for vehicles owned by senior citizens, municipalities, schools, churches, disabled war veterans or former prisoners of war.
The aldermen voted against the increase by a 4-3 vote during Tuesday's City Council meeting. Alderman Santiago "Jim" Ramos, 2nd Ward, was absent from the meeting.
Also Tuesday, aldermen voted 5-2 against increasing the city's gasoline tax from 1 cent per gallon to 3 cents per gallon.
The gas tax has been at 1 cent per gallon since 1998, when it was reduced from 2 cents per gallon.
"With these two nay votes, the budget's now in the red and there will be no employee salary increases," Mayor Michael O'Connor said. "You're going to have to stop spending or find another way to raise revenues."
Some city workers were laid off during 2008 to make up an estimated $2 million budget shortfall.
O'Connor called two budget workshops, scheduled for Jan. 15 and 7 p.m. Thursday, Jan. 22, at City Hall, for City Council members to begin hammering out a 2009 draft budget that actually will be balanced.
"Last year, I voted for (the vehicle sticker fee increase), but the economy is not in much better shape," Alderman Michele Skryd, 4th Ward, said during the meeting.
Skryd, along with Alderman Nona Chapman, 1st Ward; Alderman Michael Phelan, 6th Ward; and Alderman Joel Erickson, 8th Ward, cast the no votes.
In voting against increasing the city's gasoline tax, Alderman Robert J. Lovero, 7th Ward, said he was concerned drivers would fuel up in neighboring towns where gas taxes may be less costly.
He said Berwyn's gas tax was reduced from 2 cents to 1 cent per gallon in 1998 because so many motorists were refueling in other towns.
O'Connor took umbrage with Lovero's characterization regarding the reason the gas tax was reduced at that time.
"It was a tough time," O'Connor said of the 1998 economy.
"O'Connor took umbrage"
Yes, as he ALWAYS does... that is why this town has been held BACK
for four years...OC takes UMBRAGE, his atypical shadiness and resentment...
We have wasted four precious years of our lives where this city could have
moved forward but did not. We fester like a a boil on the mayors arse.
Do you see Berwyn as a better city than it was four years ago?
I see a city in deep decline unless there are changes FAST.
QuoteWe fester like a a boil on the mayors arse.
Do you see Berwyn as a better city than it was four years ago?
I see a city in deep decline unless there are changes FAST.
Four years?? Are you kidding me??
Nowhere near as bad as the decline from oh, 1985 to 2005. When I moved here under the DCoB it was like friggin' culture shock.
Apparently you love taking it up the ass, since you have now flip flopped and
support those
who let this city decline to what it is today. Thanks to people like you and the Berwyn Patsy's who let this city rot, our city is what it is today (like a boil on da mare's arse, or like a wart on your penis).
Thanks!!!
I thought it was only Zorba, but Bon your also starting to get weird or is it wired, hard
to tell with you?
And---I beg to differ with you, especially when your in your craziness, but I did not let
this city rot. What have you ever done in Berwyn to make your city a better place to live?
Quote from: Berwyn Patsy on January 17, 2009, 09:00:10 PM
I thought it was only Zorba, but Bon your also starting to get weird or is it wired, hard
to tell with you?
And---I beg to differ with you, especially when your in your craziness, but I did not let
this city rot. What have you ever done in Berwyn to make your city a better place to live?
Everyday I live here and interact with my neighbors, keeping them informed of what's going on I'm making this city a better place.
Every time I give to Donor's Choose or attend CARES events I'm making Berwyn a better place.
Every time I support our teams on road games I'm making Berwyn a better place.
By
considering progressive measures to improve our school system and park districts I make Berwyn a better place.
Caring for my landscape, my house, putting up lights in the spirit of the season (and taking them down on time!) I make Berwyn a better place.
I'm doing my part.
But I'll ask you this - what's not weird about Bear talking about boils on someone's arse?
See, I mostly only respond to such garbage, not create it.
And I'm not wrong about the direction of this city under your people - I know how little I paid (and the previous owners) for my house, as well as many others around here.
Quote from: bonster on January 17, 2009, 08:52:15 PM
Apparently you love taking it up the ass, since you have now flip flopped and
support those who let this city decline to what it is today.
Thanks to people like you and the Berwyn Patsy's who let this city rot, our city is what it is today (like a boil on da mare's arse, or like a wart on your penis).
Thanks!!!
LMAO!!!!!!
Bonster, you're TOO much.
:D ;D :D
Quote from: Berwyn Patsy on January 17, 2009, 09:00:10 PM
I thought it was only Zorba, but Bon your also starting to get weird or is it wired, hard
to tell with you?
And---I beg to differ with you, especially when your in your craziness, but I did not let
this city rot. What have you ever done in Berwyn to make your city a better place to live?
It's YOU'RE Patsy, YOU'RE (as in you are), ............. not YOUR.
I know spellcheck can't help you with this one, but for heaven's sake, it can't be that hard.
Zorba, don't let my spelling get under your skin
I know it's hard and part of your OCD issues but just work with it, o.k.
honey? Every day is a new day for you, we understand. That's what friends are
for to understand you're short comings. Happy now? Good boy.
Quote from Bonster: "And, I'm not wrong about the direction of the city under your people-I know
how little I paid (and the previous owners) for my house, as well as many others
around here."
When did you buy your home? Why did you buy your home in Berwyn? How do you figure "my people"
control the value of real estate in the neighborhood? What is your definition of the direction
of the city and where it is going under "my people"., compare it to where you
think it's going under OC's direction? Has your property not increased since you bought?
It's to bad, you didn't come to your conclusions before you bought in Berwyn, maybe you would have
been better off some where else?
Although I enjoy the humor at the slapstick-like rantings of this thread... can we go back to discussing the city council meeting and the ineptitude of our overly compensated elected officials?
Quote from: Berwyn Patsy on January 18, 2009, 09:20:01 AM
Zorba, don't let my spelling get under your skin
I know it's hard and part of your OCD issues but just work with it, o.k.
honey? Every day is a new day for you, we understand. That's what friends are
for to understand you're short comings. Happy now? Good boy.
No Patsy, in THIS instance it's
YOUR, not YOU'RE (you are).
Try again.
Okay, toots? ;) :D
Take your OCD meds Andy, I was just keeping you on your toes!
Sorry, back to the subject at hand.
QuoteHow do you figure "my people" control the value of real estate in the neighborhood?
They run the city. See what homes in your once beautiful neighborhood have sold for over the last 10 years. It's a FKG crime.
Dilpidated homes and businesses on the north side, which by virtue of their low value have attracted lower quality elements to move in -- no coincidence.
The fact that no progressive measures were ever taken to improve the school and park districts, holding on to the township and rec. depts., no control over waste management (particularly with OC) is no coincidence. You look at an Elmwood Park - lower quality homes, double the value. That to me was a well-run city when I lived there.
QuoteWhat is your definition of the direction of the city and where it is going under "my people"., compare it to where you think it's going under OC's direction?
Yours: A city of beautiful homes with good neighbors, to a city of dilapidated homes and gang-bangers; middle class to low class.
Now: a city of dilapidated homes and gang-bangers going nowhere. I am not giving the IVB credit for much here.
Quote from: apatriot on March 28, 2007, 07:30:28 PM
And that's how it was. You were different, but you had a closeness. I don't see that in Hispanics. I tell ya, I thought Italians were clannish, but Hispanics got them beat by a mile. Have I met some that are friendly. yes. They say Hi, but that's about it.
Berwyn is now Hispanic. That's your stigma.
Quote from: apatriot on March 27, 2007, 08:37:45 PM
In the 80's Berwyn had some of the best nightlife around and still had relatively little crime. The Italians moved away.
And now we have mexicans, newcomers with visions of another Oak Park, and old timers smiling every time someone thinks they can turn it all around.
Sorry but compared to what we have today, Berwyn was a Utopia, that's why people still come here so that can hear what's happened here because they loved it so much. Do I still love Berwyn? Yes, but now she's like a virgin prom queen that got gang raped in an alley. I pity her.
The above scenarios, however non-pc, happened before I moved in.
Well, not much has changed since I've been here. Same shitheads, another day. I've stated my block has gotten better, but that's just my block.
I DO know what Berwyn was like when I was a kid, vs. what I moved into.
And to date, no one (not even apat who admitted to being "old guard" , not republican) has convinced me the the folks who let Berwyn slide have a clue/plan for the future.
QuoteIt's to bad, you didn't come to your conclusions before you bought in Berwyn, maybe you would have
been better off some where else?
Not true. I'm quite happy here. I've actually thanked your crew of clueless for allowing the city to fall - made it affordable for me to buy a house here as opposed to a condo elsewhere. ;)
I can't agree with your version of the city/real estate going to hell because the "old guard" or
"my people" however you want to refer the past to, is responsible for the demise of Berwyn.
It was just timing Bonster, that's all it was. Things change. The north end of Berwyn as far as I know was never
considered to be the best to begin with. When change started to happen , all over not just Berwyn, your
end was the first to go down. That's why you could afford your home, not because the Democrats run the city.
The south end stayed stronger, but I agree change has happened at that end also, only slower.
I guess if I thought like you I could say, it's because of the democrats, especially the old guard that I was able to sell
my home for almost $400,000.00 less then 2 years ago. Not true, just a matter of how things were.
"Take your OCD meds Andy"
BP I don't think poor Zobra knows
that he does indeed suffer from that affliction
or what it is, but he is the friggin posterboy
for that disease and needs help...
Geez anyone who wonders about MY UNIT,
if I have been using it and if I can even SEE IT
has some damn serious issues..
And the way he spends countless hours searching the bowels
of BTF for what I posted here some THREE YEARS AGO to re-post again?
Yes Mom, there are some VERY SCARY people on the internet.
Quote from: Berwyn Patsy on January 18, 2009, 07:38:30 PM
I can't agree with your version of the city/real estate going to hell because the "old guard" or
"my people" however you want to refer the past to, is responsible for the demise of Berwyn.
It was just timing Bonster, that's all it was. Things change. The north end of Berwyn as far as I know was never
considered to be the best to begin with. When change started to happen , all over not just Berwyn, your
end was the first to go down. That's why you could afford your home, not because the Democrats run the city.
The south end stayed stronger, but I agree change has happened at that end also, only slower.
I guess if I thought like you I could say, it's because of the democrats, especially the old guard that I was able to sell
my home for almost $400,000.00 less then 2 years ago. Not true, just a matter of how things were.
Wasn't the Gold Coast considered one of the nicest parts of Berwyn (I'd contend the bungalows there are as nice as anywhere else in the city)?
Quote from: bonster on January 17, 2009, 08:52:15 PM
QuoteWe fester like a a boil on the mayors arse.
Do you see Berwyn as a better city than it was four years ago?
I see a city in deep decline unless there are changes FAST.
Four years?? Are you kidding me??
Nowhere near as bad as the decline from oh, 1985 to 2005. When I moved here under the DCoB it was like friggin' culture shock.
Apparently you love taking it up the ass, since you have now flip flopped and
support those who let this city decline to what it is today.
Thanks to people like you and the Berwyn Patsy's who let this city rot, our city is what it is today (like a boil on da mare's arse, or like a wart on your penis).
Thanks!!!
Let's see if this scenario is accurate. Berwyn realtors in the late 1980's courted people on the west side of Chicago to purchase homes in Berwyn. Purchasers were lead to believe they could afford the mortgage not understanding home ownership includes utilities, maintenance, taxes, insurance and everyday living expenses. Of course its ok to include extended family in on the deal, they may be happy moving in with you in Berwyn. Before long the uninformed purchaser cannot afford the home it goes back on the market, cycle repeats itself. The realtors, city (transfer taxes), lenders and real estate attorneys win, everyone's making money. Legal sure, unethical, you bet.
Gosh, is that really possible?
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on January 18, 2009, 10:35:07 PM
Wasn't the Gold Coast considered one of the nicest parts of Berwyn (I'd contend the bungalows there are as nice as anywhere else in the city)?
Yes, and not only the Gold Coast but the area immediately to the east. According to one Berwyn old timer I spoke to, the area around between 19th to Cermak and Oak Park to Grove was considered a ritzy, high class area where only well to do people rented apartments.
Maybe it had something to do with being near Cermak and Oak Park avenue as well as being at the end of the el line but that area (Oak Park Avenue and Grove from 19th to Cermak) used to be a very high class area.
Ted
Quote from: Berwyn Patsy on January 18, 2009, 07:38:30 PM
I can't agree with your version of the city/real estate going to hell because the "old guard" or
"my people" however you want to refer the past to, is responsible for the demise of Berwyn.
It was just timing Bonster, that's all it was. Things change. The north end of Berwyn as far as I know was never
considered to be the best to begin with. When change started to happen , all over not just Berwyn, your
end was the first to go down. That's why you could afford your home, not because the Democrats run the city.
The south end stayed stronger, but I agree change has happened at that end also, only slower.
I guess if I thought like you I could say, it's because of the democrats, especially the old guard that I was able to sell
my home for almost $400,000.00 less then 2 years ago. Not true, just a matter of how things were.
BP are you really saying that the old guard was responsible for your value being over 400k? Your home like many homes in this country went up in value because of the ease of getting real loose financing. Nothing more, nothing less. It was not brain surgery. It was not brilliant marketing. It was being in the right place at the right time. We will never see that again in our lifetime.
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on January 18, 2009, 10:35:07 PM
Quote from: Berwyn Patsy on January 18, 2009, 07:38:30 PM
I can't agree with your version of the city/real estate going to hell because the "old guard" or
"my people" however you want to refer the past to, is responsible for the demise of Berwyn.
It was just timing Bonster, that's all it was. Things change. The north end of Berwyn as far as I know was never
considered to be the best to begin with. When change started to happen , all over not just Berwyn, your
end was the first to go down. That's why you could afford your home, not because the Democrats run the city.
The south end stayed stronger, but I agree change has happened at that end also, only slower.
I guess if I thought like you I could say, it's because of the democrats, especially the old guard that I was able to sell
my home for almost $400,000.00 less then 2 years ago. Not true, just a matter of how things were.
Wasn't the Gold Coast considered one of the nicest parts of Berwyn (I'd contend the bungalows there are as nice as anywhere else in the city)?
When we lived in North Berwyn we used to take walks throughout the Gold Coast (which I have always thought geographically was OP to Harlem and 16th to 22nd). Mostly beautiful bungalows mixed in with some English Tudors and Georgians, some custom corner homes along with a few apartment bldgs. Aside from on 16th street are there any frame homes in there? Anyways, a very wonderful mix architecturally which brings to mind the phrase - "they just don't build them like that anymore".
Gold Coast = "Funkytown"
They just don't build em like that anymore
Thank God
QuoteIt was just timing Bonster, that's all it was. Things change. The north end of Berwyn as far as I know was never
considered to be the best to begin with. When change started to happen , all over not just Berwyn, your
end was the first to go down. That's why you could afford your home, not because the Democrats run the city.
A ridiculous statement by someone who must not have ever went north of 26th St. in all of their "many years" in Berwyn. The gold coast neighborhood was one of the nicest spots in Berwyn. The Bungalows and other homes were impeccably kept by their owners. The area was dominated by Italians who did not skimp when it came to their homes. The people that lived there had money. Not only a paid off home, but probably a Cadillac in the garage, and a ton of money in the bank. Unfortunately, many of these people fled when the ethnic makeup of the neighborhood began to change in the mid 1990s. These are the same people that fled the west side when it also began to change in the 1960s and 1970s, so this was just their way with dealing with any change. The area of Oak Park Ave. east to East ave. was also very nice and quiet. The majority of the buildings were owner occupied by their long time owners and had good tenants. Obviously this area has dramatically changed and hopefully it will see a revitalization sooner than later.
North of 16th St. was a different story. Still majority of the residents were good people with well kept homes but there was a certain element of what we would call now "lower income" people in some sections. Rents and homes were cheaper due to the large number of frame buildings. This was also the first area of Berwyn to experience any real change.
Quote from: maraire on January 19, 2009, 04:35:21 PM
They just don't build em like that anymore
Thank God
Totally agree. It may slip past everyone. If I said it once I said it 1000 times.
Quote from: maraire on January 19, 2009, 04:35:21 PM
They just don't build em like that anymore
Thank God
WHY?
Throughout my YUT in Berwyn, there was only ONE Gold Coast. All of Riverside Drive.
Quote from: apatriot on January 19, 2009, 06:08:40 PM
Throughout my YUT in Berwyn, there was only ONE Gold Coast. All of Riverside Drive.
apat - you're talking income in terms of residents at that point in time.
lawndale, back off Jack. North Berwyn to me was north of 16th Street, I didn't know
I owed you or any one else specifics. The gold coast to me was middle Berwyn.
Tony, reread my post, Bonster was accusing Berwyn of going down the gutter because ''my
People" run the city , he stated. I said if I THOUGHT like he did, I could say the Democrats,
or "'my people" was what brought my property to the highest level, and of course I know that's not
the reason, it was just the timing.
I agree Apat...RD was always the Gold Coast...
But Patsy, you DO owe an explanation when you make an insulting blanket statement about an area of Berwyn where some here may live or hold dear to their heart. Like I said, I doubt you were ever in that area when you lived here. If you were, please correct me, but I doubt you were.
10,000 posts for Bonster!! Congrats buddy! :D
The geographical definitions of the Gold Coast in Berwyn are: North-South: 16th Street to 22nd (Cermak Road) and East-West: Oak Park to Harlem Avenue. End of story.
Quote from: lawndale on January 19, 2009, 07:43:32 PM
10,000 posts for Bonster!! Congrats buddy! :D
A big pat on the back! And I'm glad the topic was North Berwyn when we reached it. He has been a shining star for that part of town for a long time now. Keep on truckin Bonster!
Quote from: lawndale on January 19, 2009, 07:42:36 PM
But Patsy, you DO owe an explanation when you make an insulting blanket statement about an area of Berwyn where some here may live or hold dear to their heart. Like I said, I doubt you were ever in that area when you lived here. If you were, please correct me, but I doubt you were.
Hey lawndale...BP owes you squat in the way of any explanation. Do not come into our house
as a newbie and demand or expect anything....I or anyone else does not owe you chit, several
are tenured here on our forum, you are not, and come in with a bad attitude without even having
the courtesy to introduce yourself. You stand corrected.
Quote from: lawndale on January 19, 2009, 07:43:32 PM
10,000 posts for Bonster!! Congrats buddy! :D
OMG how poetic...One new sick flock gravitates
right to Bonzie.
Bernie, actually you are exhibit: A in the first post I made on this forum. You are BY FAR the most laughable person not only on this web site, but probably in the whole city of Berwyn. The stuff that you posted has actually left me with my jaw on the table as far as being the most ridiculous, lunkheaded, silly, Hams induced, hair brained, nonsensical, bullshit I have ever heard. I asked a few of Bobby's people about you and they laughed. You don't even want to know what they said. Seriously. If I were you I would slither away under a rock or something. I'm not kidding. Please don't act as if you are a pillar of this community or even Berwyn Talk for that matter. You sir are a HUGE joke. After Dillion outed you on that last piece of of crap you spewed, I am shocked you had the balls to show back up and post again.
Hey lawndale, I am getting the feeling your a relative of Zorba, must be the way you
write, I don't know if this board could take one more Mr. know it all.
Quote from: lawndale on January 19, 2009, 08:11:15 PM
Bernie, actually you are exhibit: A in the first post I made on this forum. You are BY FAR the most laughable person not only on this web site, but probably in the whole city of Berwyn. The stuff that you posted has actually left me with my jaw on the table as far as being the most ridiculous, lunkheaded, silly, Hams induced, hair brained, nonsensical, bullshit I have ever heard. I asked a few of Bobby's people about you and they laughed. You don't even want to know what they said. Seriously. If I were you I would slither away under a rock or something. I'm not kidding. Please don't act as if you are a pillar of this community or even Berwyn Talk for that matter. You sir are a HUGE joke. After Dillion outed you on that last piece of of crap you spewed, I am shocked you had the balls to show back up and post again.
While I disagree with Bear on a major number of things he has more street cred that you do on the BTF. Which is why I mentioned earlier we can all agree to disagree.
Quote from: lawndale on January 19, 2009, 08:11:15 PM
Bernie, actually you are exhibit: A in the first post I made on this forum. You are BY FAR the most laughable person not only on this web site, but probably in the whole city of Berwyn. The stuff that you posted has actually left me with my jaw on the table as far as being the most ridiculous, lunkheaded, silly, Hams induced, hair brained, nonsensical, bullshit I have ever heard. I asked a few of Bobby's people about you and they laughed. You don't even want to know what they said. Seriously. If I were you I would slither away under a rock or something. I'm not kidding. Please don't act as if you are a pillar of this community or even Berwyn Talk for that matter. You sir are a HUGE joke. After Dillion outed you on that last piece of of crap you spewed, I am shocked you had the balls to show back up and post again.
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh Lord, I can't take this anymore......... :D ;D :D ;D :D
I think ole Bear is also Exhibit(s) A-Z!!!!
This is exactly what I am talking about. Bernie the fall down drunk made an insinuation that I was "one of Bonster's people" because I commented about his posts and theres Orland Patsy lumping me in with Zorba because she posted nonsense and I called her out on it. Why do the few of you have to lump everybody in with a political party? It is old and extremely BORING!
And again with Mrs. Northsider. I don't need any "street cred" here at all. The smart ones will know that I am a realist and make sense. The others, well...... Oh, I also find it funny that a person with 10 posts is being debated as far as their credability with Bernie the lush with like 5,000 posts! LOL!!
Quote from: MRS. NORTHSIDER on January 19, 2009, 08:18:26 PM
Quote from: lawndale on January 19, 2009, 08:11:15 PM
Bernie, actually you are exhibit: A in the first post I made on this forum. You are BY FAR the most laughable person not only on this web site, but probably in the whole city of Berwyn. The stuff that you posted has actually left me with my jaw on the table as far as being the most ridiculous, lunkheaded, silly, Hams induced, hair brained, nonsensical, bullshit I have ever heard. I asked a few of Bobby's people about you and they laughed. You don't even want to know what they said. Seriously. If I were you I would slither away under a rock or something. I'm not kidding. Please don't act as if you are a pillar of this community or even Berwyn Talk for that matter. You sir are a HUGE joke. After Dillion outed you on that last piece of of crap you spewed, I am shocked you had the balls to show back up and post again.
While I disagree with Bear on a major number of things he has more street cred that you do on the BTF. Which is why I mentioned earlier we can all agree to disagree.
How does one obtain "street cred" on BTF?
(Not that it means anything, but just asking).
sorry BP I misread the post.
Quote from: Berwyn Patsy on January 19, 2009, 08:17:43 PM
Hey lawndale, I am getting the feeling your a relative of Zorba, must be the way you
write, I don't know if this board could take one more Mr. know it all.
Did the Exhibit A jargon confuse and/or perplex you Patsy?
Quote from: ZORBA on January 19, 2009, 08:28:26 PM
Quote from: lawndale on January 19, 2009, 08:11:15 PM
Bernie, actually you are exhibit: A in the first post I made on this forum. You are BY FAR the most laughable person not only on this web site, but probably in the whole city of Berwyn. The stuff that you posted has actually left me with my jaw on the table as far as being the most ridiculous, lunkheaded, silly, Hams induced, hair brained, nonsensical, bullshit I have ever heard. I asked a few of Bobby's people about you and they laughed. You don't even want to know what they said. Seriously. If I were you I would slither away under a rock or something. I'm not kidding. Please don't act as if you are a pillar of this community or even Berwyn Talk for that matter. You sir are a HUGE joke. After Dillion outed you on that last piece of of crap you spewed, I am shocked you had the balls to show back up and post again.
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh Lord, I can't take this anymore......... :D ;D :D ;D :D
I think ole Bear is also Exhibit(s) A-Z!!!!
After already having a time out here I'm surprised (NOT) you continue to keep up the bad behaviour. But, then again, I have two boys who also test me daily.
Quote from: MRS. NORTHSIDER on January 19, 2009, 08:34:41 PM
Quote from: ZORBA on January 19, 2009, 08:28:26 PM
Quote from: lawndale on January 19, 2009, 08:11:15 PM
Bernie, actually you are exhibit: A in the first post I made on this forum. You are BY FAR the most laughable person not only on this web site, but probably in the whole city of Berwyn. The stuff that you posted has actually left me with my jaw on the table as far as being the most ridiculous, lunkheaded, silly, Hams induced, hair brained, nonsensical, bullshit I have ever heard. I asked a few of Bobby's people about you and they laughed. You don't even want to know what they said. Seriously. If I were you I would slither away under a rock or something. I'm not kidding. Please don't act as if you are a pillar of this community or even Berwyn Talk for that matter. You sir are a HUGE joke. After Dillion outed you on that last piece of of crap you spewed, I am shocked you had the balls to show back up and post again.
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh Lord, I can't take this anymore......... :D ;D :D ;D :D
I think ole Bear is also Exhibit(s) A-Z!!!!
After already having a time out here I'm surprised (NOT) you continue to keep up the bad behaviour. But, then again, I have two boys who also test me daily.
What, are you a shrink or something now?
:D :D :D
Mrs. N., a healthy bit of advice-sometimes the more you talk the less you say.
Zorba - I will talk as much as I want to and you can deal with the aftermath. Obviously, a problem for you.
^^^^^
Exhibit B.
Mrs N: "The geographical definitions of the Gold Coast in Berwyn are: North-South: 16th Street to 22nd (Cermak Road) and East-West: Oak Park to Harlem Avenue. End of story."
Mrs. N ... are you talking now? Totally disagree with the North-South 16-22.
are you talking in the past? AGAIN, every bigger TOTALLY disagree.
Maybe we should define "Gold Coast". Cause we had this problem with The Roxy too.
Growing up in Berwyn, there was only one Gold Coast. Riverside Drive.
Some now call Maple Gold Coast. I don't ... but some do. Actually, now in Berwyn, there is NO Gold Coast. Gold Coast representing incomes and value and upkeep of homes that would represent THE BEST the City has to offer in one LONG STRETCH. That was RIVERSIDE DRIVE. The term now in Berwyn is extinct.
I always thought Riverside Drive was part of the Berwyn Gold Coast as well, but I may be mistaken.
Quote from: ZORBA on January 19, 2009, 08:47:02 PM
I always thought Riverside Drive was part of the Berwyn Gold Coast as well, but I may be mistaken.
You and Apat would do well to take a class with the Berwyn Historical Society. I'm sure they know about such matters.
Apat and I ARE the Historical Society.
Quote from: ZORBA on January 19, 2009, 09:03:28 PM
Apat and I ARE the Historical Society.
No you're not. As much as I get mad about the bank building and other such matters you're both full of shit!
Easy now Mrs. N, you're gonna blow a gasket.
:D ;D :D
The RD area was always referred to as the Gold Coast back in the 70's.
You do remember the 70's in Berwyn, don't you?
Quote from: ZORBA on January 19, 2009, 09:10:56 PM
Easy now Mrs. N, you're gonna blow a gasket.
:D ;D :D
The RD area was always referred to as the Gold Coast back in the 70's.
You do remember the 70's in Berwyn, don't you?
No actually I don't. But I do know 2009 in Berwyn. You don't. But keep on trying to pretend you do. That's UGLY.
Quote from: lawndale on January 19, 2009, 08:11:15 PM
Bernie, actually you are exhibit: A in the first post I made on this forum. You are BY FAR the most laughable person not only on this web site, but probably in the whole city of Berwyn. The stuff that you posted has actually left me with my jaw on the table as far as being the most ridiculous, lunkheaded, silly, Hams induced, hair brained, nonsensical, bullshit I have ever heard. I asked a few of Bobby's people about you and they laughed. You don't even want to know what they said. Seriously. If I were you I would slither away under a rock or something. I'm not kidding. Please don't act as if you are a pillar of this community or even Berwyn Talk for that matter. You sir are a HUGE joke. After Dillion outed you on that last piece of of crap you spewed, I am shocked you had the balls to show back up and post again.
lawn,
can i just say that you posted one of the truest statements ever on this board.
keep up the good workmike
Quote from: k6s2zvfw on January 19, 2009, 09:18:47 PM
Quote from: lawndale on January 19, 2009, 08:11:15 PM
Bernie, actually you are exhibit: A in the first post I made on this forum. You are BY FAR the most laughable person not only on this web site, but probably in the whole city of Berwyn. The stuff that you posted has actually left me with my jaw on the table as far as being the most ridiculous, lunkheaded, silly, Hams induced, hair brained, nonsensical, bullshit I have ever heard. I asked a few of Bobby's people about you and they laughed. You don't even want to know what they said. Seriously. If I were you I would slither away under a rock or something. I'm not kidding. Please don't act as if you are a pillar of this community or even Berwyn Talk for that matter. You sir are a HUGE joke. After Dillion outed you on that last piece of of crap you spewed, I am shocked you had the balls to show back up and post again.
lawn,
can i just say that you posted one of the truest statements ever on this board.
keep up the good work
mike
"mike"
blah, blah, blah, bear is the greatest. blah, blah, blah. we're friends so he can't say or do any wrong. blah, blah, blah.
and for good measure, blah, blah, blah.
zorba blah, and bonster blah.
blah
"BP"
(i just saved you from posting this yourself,
mike )
Correct Zorba, but I'm sure there are other ppl too. I'm quite a bit older than you, but when you grow up here, unless you lived in a box in a basement, you know what terms were used, what was where, and who did what. Can you forget a few things or names, of course, but historical society cannot capture the texture and feel of a City, when members were not around to experience it. Even that published book on Berwyn does not capture Berwyn from my generation. Most of that book is from before I was born which is a very long time ago. Captures very little of 50's - 90's. So all History Society has is a bunch of pictures and some records.
If they are saying that your 16-22nd Street was Goldcoast ... I would like to know how they came to that conclusion and for what era?
56 years here .... there was only ONE Goldcoast. Riverside Drive. The homes were in prime condition, and only the very wealthiest could afford to live there. The homes were absolutely stunning and kept in immaculate condition. That's all a memory now. I went to Emerson for six years then to Piper for the last two, before becoming a FALCON. Yes, a FALCON, not a Mustang. My pals from Piper lived in the Riverside homes. The father of a member of Ides of March was my childhood doctor, and his son still lives in that doctor's home on Riverside Drive. My pal, Beth ... her father owned Leader Department Store, lived on Riverside Drive. You had architects, engineers, .... the degreed professions all owned homes there, and ONE congressman .... Collier.
Although the homes and 2+ Flats on the North were very nice, it was NEVER considered the Goldcoast by anyone from the 50's up. Since the 50's, because I can't speak before that, South Berwyn was ALWAYS the desired area, and still is. Could that change in the future. Anything is possible, but I don't think I'll live to see it.
Why are we full of shit, Mrs. N. Because we lived here longer than you and disagree?
Apat,
That's my recollection as well.
In fact, played baseball against the son of a very prominent attorney who lived on the north side of Riverside Drive south of 26th.
But then again, somebody who came to Berwyn in the 80's might tell us what Berwyn was like in the 70's.
One never knows.
And you are correct, that book on Berwyn really doesn't capture the era I grew up in.
Oh, and btw, the kid I played baseball against was a Piper Bear, even though most of the good ballplayers in my era were Emerson Tigers.
QuoteHow does one obtain "street cred" on BTF?
(Not that it means anything, but just asking).
Andy, it doesn't mean shit. It only matters to the ones here that use this place as a social outlet. To the information seekers it is meaningless. Like I mentioned, the smart ones know how to sift through the BS and not live in the imaginary world of Berwyn Talk where this false atmosphere has been created with the Hatfields' in one corner and the McCoy's in the other. People on the outside have friends on both ends of the political spectrum, and the other 95% of the population has NO friends on ANY side. Those are the people that are just normal working folks that have kids, families, jobs, bills, and other actual pressing matters to concern themselves with.
The ones that I mentioned on the outside that have friends in both parties, they know what is really going on. Sure many of them read BTF, but remember, this is a very small group of people in relation to the cities population. I have mentioned Bernie to a few of them and they all laugh. He is known as the town idiot. A drunk buffoon who gets lit up and posts all kinds of crap in the middle of the night. He is at least good for a laugh when you need one. The real funny thing is that he takes himself so seriously. How he uses the word "such" in a sentence as if he is some well spoken, educated, refined individual when in reality he is a complete goof.
I am not here to make friends. We will probably never have a drink together. Most of you will hate me. I have registered to set the record straight when I read bullshit come from this forum. And believe me.......there is plenty to sift through.
Quote from: lawndale on January 19, 2009, 09:53:38 PM
I have mentioned Bernie to a few of them and they all laugh. He is known as the town idiot. A drunk buffoon who gets lit up and posts all kinds of crap in the middle of the night. He is at least good for a laugh when you need one. The real funny thing is that he takes himself so seriously. How he uses the word "such" in a sentence as if he is some well spoken, educated, refined individual when in reality he is a complete goof.
:D ;D :D ;D :D
Quote from: k6s2zvfw on January 19, 2009, 09:21:53 PM
Quote from: k6s2zvfw on January 19, 2009, 09:18:47 PM
Quote from: lawndale on January 19, 2009, 08:11:15 PM
Bernie, actually you are exhibit: A in the first post I made on this forum. You are BY FAR the most laughable person not only on this web site, but probably in the whole city of Berwyn. The stuff that you posted has actually left me with my jaw on the table as far as being the most ridiculous, lunkheaded, silly, Hams induced, hair brained, nonsensical, bullshit I have ever heard. I asked a few of Bobby's people about you and they laughed. You don't even want to know what they said. Seriously. If I were you I would slither away under a rock or something. I'm not kidding. Please don't act as if you are a pillar of this community or even Berwyn Talk for that matter. You sir are a HUGE joke. After Dillion outed you on that last piece of of crap you spewed, I am shocked you had the balls to show back up and post again.
lawn,
can i just say that you posted one of the truest statements ever on this board.
keep up the good work
mike
"mike"
blah, blah, blah, bear is the greatest. blah, blah, blah. we're friends so he can't say or do any wrong. blah, blah, blah.
and for good measure, blah, blah, blah.
zorba blah, and bonster blah.
blah
"BP"
(i just saved you from posting this yourself,
mike )
:D ;D :D
Quote from: MRS. NORTHSIDER on January 19, 2009, 07:47:08 PM
The geographical definitions of the Gold Coast in Berwyn are: North-South: 16th Street to 22nd (Cermak Road) and East-West: Oak Park to Harlem Avenue. End of story.
Second owners of homes in that area called it Gold Coast too. Unfortunately, all the ones I know off are dead now, else I'd have asked them to post. Apat, if you want to, we can call RD Platinum Coast.
Quote from: lawndale on January 19, 2009, 08:11:15 PM
Bernie, actually you are exhibit: A in the first post I made on this forum. You are BY FAR the most laughable person not only on this web site, but probably in the whole city of Berwyn. The stuff that you posted has actually left me with my jaw on the table as far as being the most ridiculous, lunkheaded, silly, Hams induced, hair brained, nonsensical, bullshit I have ever heard. I asked a few of Bobby's people about you and they laughed. You don't even want to know what they said. Seriously. If I were you I would slither away under a rock or something. I'm not kidding. Please don't act as if you are a pillar of this community or even Berwyn Talk for that matter. You sir are a HUGE joke. After Dillion outed you on that last piece of of crap you spewed, I am shocked you had the balls to show back up and post again.
WOW...The IVB sleaze are crawling out from under the rocks early...
absolutely hilarious...
That is all OC has is you lawndale? lol
Quote from: lawndale on January 19, 2009, 09:53:38 PM
I am not here to make friends. We will probably never have a drink together.
Aw, too bad, and I was going to invite everyone (including you) out later this week to Roberto's for dinner and drinks later at my favorite dive, Spring Inn.
Kind of like Zorba's night out. ;D
Hey drunk moron, you missed the point I made at least a dozen times today because of your alcoholic blackouts!!!!!! I AM NOT A FUCKING IVB GUY!!!!!!!!! WAKE UP STUPID! Quit lumping everybody in with a political party!!! Seriously, do you have anything else in your bag of tricks??
Man, I wish Brian had banned you. What would you have done with yourself? You have very little else in your life. I see you at events. You walk around aimlessly BY YOURSELF looking trashed. Seriously dude, get a life!
I think we are done talking about Bear for now...
Thanks,
Brian
For now....... Ok Brian, I can respect that. Just until he opens his big trap again. No mercy.
I think he will not be hurling insults back at you tonight.
Right Bear?
Thanks.
I hear what lawndale is saying. Nothing said here is going to influence all the voters that don't read this forum, and even if they did, they will still vote according to their own experience, what they see, what they hear from the candidates.
The old saying never discuss Politics/Religion in the company of friends/family or otherwise, is very hard today to effect. Because virtually every subject leads back to politics or religion. Sex, marriage, schools, social security, drugs, crime, pensions, unions, real estate, development ... and yes, even snow removal. We use to have great family gatherings when my folks were alive and we would discuss politics and religion and every other controversial subject. Now that the old lions are gone, the lions that are left are asked to refrain from such discussions. Last was a threat to put up a sign when you walk in the door directing you to refrain from political discussion. Well, for awhile, the discussion was of weather and kids, then Blago came up. All the warnings went out the window and we were in full blown debate. There is literally no way to get away from politics. I wish there were really.
What do Berwyn voters have to make a decision? If someone writes an articles in a newspaper or the paper prints someone's opinion, it can be viewed as bias. So what's left? As of this moment, we haven't got anything on paper from candidates. Nothing. The few times they are scheduled to speak ... well, I hope it fits in your schedule, otherwise you may miss your only opportunity to figure out what plan they have or how they stand on issues. Oh, I'm sure we will get the usual flyers and cards ... stating progress, change, vision, etc. The usual rubbish. How do we ensure voters are properly informed. You might get, well pick up the phone and call them. Yeah, but they may tell me one thing and something else to another. Hey you told me on the phone that bla bla bla. Oh, I never said that. Candidates seem to make sure they do not go on the record. Why? Politics !!!
But getting back to lawndale's posts ... I agree, I seriously doubt that the collective posters here will get anyone elected or persuade anyone to not vote for someone. I think the voters will look at the last four years and go from there. Some will find the job done satisfactory and stay on track. Some will be of the mind for a change.
apatriot, you are correct. What people have to say on BTF has absolutely NO bearing on how people are going to vote. Unfortunately, the only political medium this community has are rag dead tree print media, empty campaign flyers and postcards, and knocks at their doors. Hopefully the candidates are getting out there and meeting the folks. I have heard about future "coffee's" for Mike O'Connor, and I have heard about Bobby's people knocking on doors and passing out literature. I just hope very soon that they both come out with a clearly defined message that we can sink our teeth into. So far there has been nothing but UNAUTHORIZED banter back and forth on BTF. Some of you incessantly ask for the opposing candidates message but for some reason you don't get it. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO COME ON AND POST ON THIS SITE!! Not that I blame them. No matter who it is, or what is said, it will be torn to shreds here. Look what has happened with other elected officials that have posted here. They have been torn apart or more than anything else, they have made FOOLS of themselves and hurt themselves more than they have helped themselves by posting here.
Quote from: lawndale on January 19, 2009, 11:05:48 PM
apatriot, you are correct. What people have to say on BTF has absolutely NO bearing on how people are going to vote. Unfortunately, the only political medium this community has are rag dead tree print media, empty campaign flyers and postcards, and knocks at their doors. Hopefully the candidates are getting out there and meeting the folks. I have heard about future "coffee's" for Mike O'Connor, and I have heard about Bobby's people knocking on doors and passing out literature. I just hope very soon that they both come out with a clearly defined message that we can sink our teeth into. So far there has been nothing but UNAUTHORIZED banter back and forth on BTF. Some of you incessantly ask for the opposing candidates message but for some reason you don't get it. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO COME ON AND POST ON THIS SITE!! Not that I blame them. No matter who it is, or what is said, it will be torn to shreds here. Look what has happened with other elected officials that have posted here. They have been torn apart or more than anything else, they have made FOOLS of themselves and hurt themselves more than they have helped themselves by posting here.
We're just waiting for you brilliant political strategists to tell us what to do - LOL!!!!
Quote from: lawndale on January 19, 2009, 11:05:48 PM
apatriot, you are correct. What people have to say on BTF has absolutely NO bearing on how people are going to vote. Unfortunately, the only political medium this community has are rag dead tree print media, empty campaign flyers and postcards, and knocks at their doors. Hopefully the candidates are getting out there and meeting the folks. I have heard about future "coffee's" for Mike O'Connor, and I have heard about Bobby's people knocking on doors and passing out literature. I just hope very soon that they both come out with a clearly defined message that we can sink our teeth into. So far there has been nothing but UNAUTHORIZED banter back and forth on BTF. Some of you incessantly ask for the opposing candidates message but for some reason you don't get it. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO COME ON AND POST ON THIS SITE!! Not that I blame them. No matter who it is, or what is said, it will be torn to shreds here. Look what has happened with other elected officials that have posted here. They have been torn apart or more than anything else, they have made FOOLS of themselves and hurt themselves more than they have helped themselves by posting here.
No one expects the candidates themselves to post here.
You are framing the question exactly as Felix did a few weeks ago. What has been asked of the DCOB supporters is why
they feel Bobby is the better candidate and what they think he will do for the city. I can't tell you what the DCOB stands for, as they have given us nothing. I can at least infer from OC what he will do, based upon his record. Bobby's record is rather sparse in that regards, unless you consider tree trimmings and handicap signs a good indicator of where he hopes to take the city.
They are unable or unwilling to answer.
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on January 19, 2009, 11:32:29 PM
Quote from: lawndale on January 19, 2009, 11:05:48 PM
apatriot, you are correct. What people have to say on BTF has absolutely NO bearing on how people are going to vote. Unfortunately, the only political medium this community has are rag dead tree print media, empty campaign flyers and postcards, and knocks at their doors. Hopefully the candidates are getting out there and meeting the folks. I have heard about future "coffee's" for Mike O'Connor, and I have heard about Bobby's people knocking on doors and passing out literature. I just hope very soon that they both come out with a clearly defined message that we can sink our teeth into. So far there has been nothing but UNAUTHORIZED banter back and forth on BTF. Some of you incessantly ask for the opposing candidates message but for some reason you don't get it. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO COME ON AND POST ON THIS SITE!! Not that I blame them. No matter who it is, or what is said, it will be torn to shreds here. Look what has happened with other elected officials that have posted here. They have been torn apart or more than anything else, they have made FOOLS of themselves and hurt themselves more than they have helped themselves by posting here.
No one expects the candidates themselves to post here.
You are framing the question exactly as Felix did a few weeks ago. What has been asked of the DCOB supporters is why they feel Bobby is the better candidate and what they think he will do for the city. I can't tell you what the DCOB stands for, as they have given us nothing. I can at least infer from OC what he will do, based upon his record. Bobby's record is rather sparse in that regards, unless you consider tree trimmings and handicap signs a good indicator of where he hopes to take the city.
They are unable or unwilling to answer.
Brian,
EXACTLY WHO are the DCOB supporters you speak of?
You have read this board, you know exactly who I am speaking about.
Felix, Bear, Patsy, FedUp, AngieBear...there are others that don't come to mind right away.
Yes, and then we have all "The IVB supporters", we (DCOB) are a little out numbered!
lol.
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on January 20, 2009, 12:47:15 AM
You have read this board, you know exactly who I am speaking about.
Felix, Bear, Patsy, FedUp, AngieBear...there are others that don't come to mind right away.
That's it? FOUR......1-2-3-4 people????? That is what this is all about? And out of those four, you have Bear in there and....well.
Brian, again you are living in the very remote world of BTF. Why in the hell would you rely on someone to post a message HERE, especially those four?? You have been asking for this for MONTHS, even well before the candidates announced a slate. All the well fully knowing they did not have a platform to run on yet. You are a man about town right? I know you are in that group of "in the know" Berwyn politicos I spoke of in a previous thread. I know my suggestion has become a BTF cliche, but why don't you go to 22nd & Oak Park and sit and talk with Bobby? Just "ask him" as they say! Seriously. You are an administrator of a "well known" communications medium here in town right? Wouldn't it have been advantageous for you to go and speak directly with the "devil" himself? Would have saved you a hell of a lot of typing at least. I know that's what I would have done. As a matter of fact that is what I did. I did not speak to Bobby directly but I got a lot of info from very close people in the know as well as a few of his candidates themselves. I also attended some IVB functions and heard what their candidates had to say. I also met and spoke with a few of them personally. If you are that concerned you will do your due diligence before you pass judgement or even praise on a public forum, especially if this whole matter is as important to you as you say it is..
Quote from: Berwyn Patsy on January 20, 2009, 05:48:23 AM
Yes, and then we have all "The IVB supporters", we (DCOB) are a little out numbered!
lol.
Yeah Patsy, you have FOUR on your side and MAYBE 4-6 on the other side. A battle for the ages if I ever saw one! ;D ::)
Quote from: lawndale on January 20, 2009, 07:11:47 AM
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on January 20, 2009, 12:47:15 AM
You have read this board, you know exactly who I am speaking about.
Felix, Bear, Patsy, FedUp, AngieBear...there are others that don't come to mind right away.
That's it? FOUR......1-2-3-4 people????? That is what this is all about? And out of those four, you have Bear in there and....well.
Brian, again you are living in the very remote world of BTF. Why in the hell would you rely on someone to post a message HERE, especially those four?? You have been asking for this for MONTHS, even well before the candidates announced a slate. All the well fully knowing they did not have a platform to run on yet. You are a man about town right? I know you are in that group of "in the know" Berwyn politicos I spoke of in a previous thread. I know my suggestion has become a BTF cliche, but why don't you go to 22nd & Oak Park and sit and talk with Bobby? Just "ask him" as they say! Seriously. You are an administrator of a "well known" communications medium here in town right? Wouldn't it have been advantageous for you to go and speak directly with the "devil" himself? Would have saved you a hell of a lot of typing at least. I know that's what I would have done. As a matter of fact that is what I did. I did not speak to Bobby directly but I got a lot of info from very close people in the know as well as a few of his candidates themselves. I also attended some IVB functions and heard what their candidates had to say. I also met and spoke with a few of them personally. If you are that concerned you will do your due diligence before you pass judgement or even praise on a public forum, especially if this whole matter is as important to you as you say it is..
Lawndale,
NOBODY expects the DCOB or any of their candidates to post their platforms on BTF.
I think OPS made that very clear.
However, what's debated on btf is MEMBERS OPINIONS. And what Brian and many others are asking DCOB supporters to do is post WHY they support Bob Lovero. In other words, support their opinions. To date, NOBODY has come even close to doing so. In fact, one DCOB supporter, who denied being a DCOB supporter until confronted with info regarding campaign contributions, continuously takes positions opposite of those taken by Bob Lovero on many issues.
Brian isn't asking Bobby what his position is, he's asking his supporters why they support him. And if Bobby hasn't announced his platform yet, what are the DCOB supporters supporting in the first place?
Quote from: lawndale on January 20, 2009, 07:11:47 AM
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on January 20, 2009, 12:47:15 AM
You have read this board, you know exactly who I am speaking about.
Felix, Bear, Patsy, FedUp, AngieBear...there are others that don't come to mind right away.
That's it? FOUR......1-2-3-4 people????? That is what this is all about? And out of those four, you have Bear in there and....well.
Brian, again you are living in the very remote world of BTF. Why in the hell would you rely on someone to post a message HERE, especially those four?? You have been asking for this for MONTHS, even well before the candidates announced a slate. All the well fully knowing they did not have a platform to run on yet. You are a man about town right? I know you are in that group of "in the know" Berwyn politicos I spoke of in a previous thread. I know my suggestion has become a BTF cliche, but why don't you go to 22nd & Oak Park and sit and talk with Bobby? Just "ask him" as they say! Seriously. You are an administrator of a "well known" communications medium here in town right? Wouldn't it have been advantageous for you to go and speak directly with the "devil" himself? Would have saved you a hell of a lot of typing at least. I know that's what I would have done. As a matter of fact that is what I did. I did not speak to Bobby directly but I got a lot of info from very close people in the know as well as a few of his candidates themselves. I also attended some IVB functions and heard what their candidates had to say. I also met and spoke with a few of them personally. If you are that concerned you will do your due diligence before you pass judgement or even praise on a public forum, especially if this whole matter is as important to you as you say it is..
I asked Bobby what their platform is. He said when he got back from a fishing trip, they would be releasing it shortly. That was in 2007. Still waiting. Asked Felix about it numerous times. Still waiting.
I've seen Bobby and his crew at city council. I have heard his position on many things. I don't agree with him on several important issues (taxpayers interests vs the unions interests, salaries, benefits, progressive thinking, for a start).
So I am still curious why the DCOB supporters won't/can't tell us why Bobby would be the better choice?
Zorba, everything you said is true. But we don't know anything about anybody at this point. Closing in on February, then March, then April. 3 months, with a Primary stuck in between.
We concentrate on DCOB, yet we know the sitting Mayor is running for re-election. We don't know his platform for next 4 years either. What has he learned in 4 years? What mistakes did he make during his term? What did he feel were his strong points? What are his future plans for development? What things would he CHANGE if he could?
We have to know about everyone, not just ONE person. On another thread I said, I don't know anything about Frank Amaro. What makes him qualified to be Alderman, what is he saying about his committment to the Ward? Those ppl in his Ward, have to think about that. For me personally as a resident, I only met one person that would effect me directly, the DCOB candidate for the 3rd Ward. Seems friendly, open to listen, down to earth, 24 year resident of Berwyn, teacher at Morton West. Although things are better in my area now, I spoke to him about problems in the past, and told him we (the neighbors in our immediate area) have united to not let anything slide. If trouble breaks out, we are on it. He was happy to know we were doing well in my neck of the woods, yet said if he were elected he would make it a point to stay in touch to ensure that we were happy on our end, and that he would be more than happy to tackle any problems we have. Political rhetoric? I suppose. Only time would tell should he become elected. If there are other things I need to know about him, I welcome the information. That's ONE. I await the others.
The Republican candidate will be presenting his platform shortly I believe so at some point everything will be revealed. But OC cannot just point to his term as Mayor. He still has to present future plans, and talk about what he could have done BETTER. It looks like everyone is just in a holding pattern.
We have a very long way to go and we are on the clock. Makes me very glad that I'm not a politician. I couldn't take the stress, but some ppl thrive on it.
Lawndale,
This is a discussion board. The members here want to discuss things. People are motivated to participate for different reasons, but most just want to discuss. I don't expect any Berwyn politician to come on here and post anymore than I expected Barack Obama to post when we were discussing that election. I don't expect the manager of the Cubs to come on to the sports threads and post either. I also don't expect these discussions to have any measureable impact on the Berwyn mayoral election, the national election or the Stanley Cup results. IT'S A DISCUSSION! It's just like if you were in a very big bar or coffee house and people were having all kinds of discussions. You overhear a comment and you either jump in and add your $.02 or you keep moving. Just like in a real discussion, if someone isn't making sense or is getting too hot under the collar or is just rudely interrupting or name-calling, you can walk away. They might call after you, ask you to "take it outside", or try to embarrass you in order to distract everyone else in the room. This is really a maturity issue IMHO. I keep walking, for others that is hard.
Quote from: ZORBA on January 20, 2009, 07:27:04 AM
Quote from: lawndale on January 20, 2009, 07:11:47 AM
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on January 20, 2009, 12:47:15 AM
You have read this board, you know exactly who I am speaking about.
Felix, Bear, Patsy, FedUp, AngieBear...there are others that don't come to mind right away.
That's it? FOUR......1-2-3-4 people????? That is what this is all about? And out of those four, you have Bear in there and....well.
Brian, again you are living in the very remote world of BTF. Why in the hell would you rely on someone to post a message HERE, especially those four?? You have been asking for this for MONTHS, even well before the candidates announced a slate. All the well fully knowing they did not have a platform to run on yet. You are a man about town right? I know you are in that group of "in the know" Berwyn politicos I spoke of in a previous thread. I know my suggestion has become a BTF cliche, but why don't you go to 22nd & Oak Park and sit and talk with Bobby? Just "ask him" as they say! Seriously. You are an administrator of a "well known" communications medium here in town right? Wouldn't it have been advantageous for you to go and speak directly with the "devil" himself? Would have saved you a hell of a lot of typing at least. I know that's what I would have done. As a matter of fact that is what I did. I did not speak to Bobby directly but I got a lot of info from very close people in the know as well as a few of his candidates themselves. I also attended some IVB functions and heard what their candidates had to say. I also met and spoke with a few of them personally. If you are that concerned you will do your due diligence before you pass judgement or even praise on a public forum, especially if this whole matter is as important to you as you say it is..
Lawndale,
NOBODY expects the DCOB or any of their candidates to post their platforms on BTF.
I think OPS made that very clear.
However, what's debated on btf is MEMBERS OPINIONS. And what Brian and many others are asking DCOB supporters to do is post WHY they support Bob Lovero. In other words, support their opinions. To date, NOBODY has come even close to doing so. In fact, one DCOB supporter, who denied being a DCOB supporter until confronted with info regarding campaign contributions, continuously takes positions opposite of those taken by Bob Lovero on many issues.
Brian isn't asking Bobby what his position is, he's asking his supporters why they support him. And if Bobby hasn't announced his platform yet, what are the DCOB supporters supporting in the first place?
Zorba, I know exactly what Brian is talking about. The thing I don't understand is why Brain, Bonster, and yourself even give a shit why those few people support the DCOB. First let me start off by breaking down the 4 DCOB supporters in question (5 if you include FedUp). First off, Patsy doesn't even live here so who she supports is COMPLETELY irrelevant. She is not even eligible to vote in Berwyn so I have no idea why you care. Secondly, it has already been proven that Bear is not really a DCOB supporter but a Michael O'Connor hater as a result of being denied that fateful banner contract. Felix, is a member of a respectable organization, so he should have kept his mouth shut and not brought politics into an arena like the BFD. The last two people are anonymous so who fucking cares?
Since it is so hard to figure out let me go out on a limb and attempt to explain why people blindly follow a party like the DCOB. Brian, you especially are a smart fella, and although your intelligence puts you ahead of the pack on a variety of issues, it actually slows you down on simple things such as old school machine politics. Being from rural Michigan I would not expect you to understand this, as it is understandable that you would completely over think the issue. I am not blaming you. Andy and Mark on the other hand I am surprised in the two of you. Andy especially, because even though he is educated, he knows the ways of simple people and old school values.
Here is the simplicity behind it all. You have got to remember the old culture of a city like Berwyn or Cicero and its people. This city actually used to have "powerful" politicians. Politicians who had pull on the City of Chicago, county, and even on the state level. To be in the "inner circle" of a party was a huge thing. It came with a lot of "benefits." Lets say your kid needed a job. As long as you backed the party, boom, your kid was now a Berwyn Fireman, Policeman, Public Works guy, etc. Lets say that you got a ticket because you parked in the handicapped spot of the local Walgreens. Call "your guy" and bam! Ticket is gone. Needed an extra garbage can or handicapped sign in front of nana's house? Just call your precinct captain and it's there the next day. Now we know those days are over for the most part. Times have surely changed. So what's left? Well that is simple. Old allegiances and friendships. Hey Joey Bags is the Mayor or Alderman. I grew up wit him, we played ball togeder. His cousin married my sister in law. Get it? The people that are "blindly" following a party are doing it because they "like Bobby", or "like O'Connor." If he knows them and they support him they "have a guy" at da mares office. Fuck that he can't move the city foreword. As long as me and mine are "taken care a" fuck everybody else. I know to someone as liberal as Brian, what I just said is horrifying, but that's reality, like it or not, it is what it is. Will it eventually die out? Without a doubt. The hangers on are getting old and the old way of "getting things done" is quickly coming so the end (see Blago). There are also other reasons like "I have always voted Democratic," etc., but we won't get into that now.
What do you think happened with O'Connor? A shit load of people came out of the woodwork to support him in 2005. There were SOME that thought that if he "got made" that they would "have a guy" and get somethin (see Bernie and the banner contract). Well guess what? Not many people got anything, save for a few like Suchy, Canino, Hajer, LeBeau, Dawn Reinhardt, etc. Now everybody hates O'Connors guts. How many are going to step up now? I could go on but at this point if you don't get the picture, there is no hope for you.
Thanks for setting me straight.
Guess there is no reason for this forum to exist. I'll proceed with shutting it down.
Take a page out of your own book there Lawndale. If Patsy has no relevance because she does't live here why would you address ZORBA....
Hey Brian, don't be pissed. ??? I just gave you the straightest answer you have ever gotten on the subject.
Quote from: lawndale on January 20, 2009, 10:54:32 AM
Hey Brian, don't be pissed. ??? I just gave you the straightest answer you have ever gotten on the subject.
Pissed? LOL. Amused.
If you really knew me, you'd have heard me say numerous times the exact same thing you did.
Brian, I do know you. Why would you be amused? If you said the same thing as me then you would be in agreement. Please link where you said ANYTHING close.
If you knew the answer you would not ask about it multiple times a day for months on end.
"The last two people are anonymous so who fucking cares?"
As you are dipstick, and I doubt you would ever have the nads to
identify yourself.
I am not the one publicly embracing any political party. Bear, I may not have any time here but you have absolutely ZEROOOOOOO credability concerning anything here. You are just some drunk loser with an axe to grind against the current mayor. Keep pretending as if you are some progressive foreword thinking individual. In reality you are a lunkheaded old school Berwyn creep that wants wants and when he doesn't get his way, cry's and makes a big stink.
Now I will be quiet so Brian doesn't get mad that I am flam basting Bear the big fat joke. Keep it up puke, I have VOLUMES more material to absolutely cut you to shread's with here. If you are lucky you won't go home and blow your own brains out.
As I suspected...A nadless creature...post away.... you are not worth my time.
Quote from: lawndale on January 20, 2009, 12:50:22 PM
I am not the one publicly embracing any political party. Bear, I may not have any time here but you have absolutely ZEROOOOOOO credability concerning anything here. You are just some drunk loser with an axe to grind against the current mayor. Keep pretending as if you are some progressive foreword thinking individual. In reality you are a lunkheaded old school Berwyn creep that wants wants and when he doesn't get his way, cry's and makes a big stink.
Now I will be quiet so Brian doesn't get mad that I am flam basting Bear the big fat joke. Keep it up puke, I have VOLUMES more material to absolutely cut you to shread's with here. If you are lucky you won't go home and blow your own brains out.
Lawndale,
Your tenure here is shaping up to be a short one. You've come on here and attacked people. Contribute to the discussion, or you won't be participating.
But dad, it's only Bear......... :666:
ok I'll be a good boy! ;D
Quote from: lawndale on January 20, 2009, 12:50:22 PM
I am not the one publicly embracing any political party. Bear, I may not have any time here but you have absolutely ZEROOOOOOO credability concerning anything here. You are just some drunk loser with an axe to grind against the current mayor. Keep pretending as if you are some progressive foreword thinking individual. In reality you are a lunkheaded old school Berwyn creep that wants wants and when he doesn't get his way, cry's and makes a big stink.
Now I will be quiet so Brian doesn't get mad that I am flam basting Bear the big fat joke. Keep it up puke, I have VOLUMES more material to absolutely cut you to shread's with here. If you are lucky you won't go home and blow your own brains out.
Would one need a specialized tool for flam basting?
(http://www.jasons-indoor-guide-to-organic-and-hydroponics-gardening.com/images/baster.jpg)
Only if theone that needs basting is a jive turkey! :fro:
Lets try and set the record straight if we can. The question is and has been why do I (we) support the DCOB? Why can't I (we) tell you why we support the DCOB? What does the DCOB stand for? What will Lovero do if he is elected?
Guess what people WE DON'T KNOW EITHER.....
Here is what I do know...... I know I cannot ever again support OC ...Thats right being a democrat for as long as I have lived in this town I voted for OC the last election MY MISTAKE .... will not make that mistake again.
Now being what we call a DCOB supporter I am here to tell one and all When the time comes, and I hope it will be soon, if I don't hear from the Lovero camp what I feel is a good plan to take this city forward I am here to say all bets are off.
So where does that leave this DCOB supporter? ALL DRESSED UP WITH NOWHERE TO GO
So please stop the BS about why can't they tell us......
All I can say is 4 years with this man is ENOUGH
Quote from: FedUp on January 20, 2009, 03:08:41 PM
Lets try and set the record straight if we can. The question is and has been why do I (we) support the DCOB? Why can't I (we) tell you why we support the DCOB? What does the DCOB stand for? What will Lovero do if he is elected?
Guess what people WE DON'T KNOW EITHER.....
Here is what I do know...... I know I cannot ever again support OC ...Thats right being a democrat for as long as I have lived in this town I voted for OC the last election MY MISTAKE .... will not make that mistake again.
Now being what we call a DCOB supporter I am here to tell one and all When the time comes, and I hope it will be soon, if I don't hear from the Lovero camp what I feel is a good plan to take this city forward I am here to say all bets are off.
So where does that leave this DCOB supporter? ALL DRESSED UP WITH NOWHERE TO GO
So please stop the BS about why can't they tell us......
All I can say is 4 years with this man is ENOUGH
Wow, see now we are getting somewhere. Ok let's update the rundown.
Patsy- not a resident, no voting privilege, who cares.
Bear- Not really a DCOB supporter, just an O'Connor hater.
FedUp- ***see above
Felix- Most likely the buddy factor I spoke of in an above post
Angiebear- ?????? Come on Angie, just tell us so we can put this whole controversy to bed!
lawnornament - official OC putz sent to BTF
Mr. Hannigan, (I have to be nice now) I have already informed you that I am not an IVB guy. Please refrain from any more insults please as I am powerless not to cut you to ribbons JUST FOR THE TIME BEING on this web site. Please don't be so angry. I am sure that His Honor, Mayor Michael O'Connor had a very good reason in denying you the banner contact. Please see Andy's thread about some of your more....."colorful"......... statements about the IVB early on to remind you why you supported them. Thank you for your cooperation.
"please as I am powerless"
Yup
Quote from: lawndale on January 20, 2009, 04:02:30 PM
Quote from: FedUp on January 20, 2009, 03:08:41 PM
Lets try and set the record straight if we can. The question is and has been why do I (we) support the DCOB? Why can't I (we) tell you why we support the DCOB? What does the DCOB stand for? What will Lovero do if he is elected?
Guess what people WE DON'T KNOW EITHER.....
Here is what I do know...... I know I cannot ever again support OC ...Thats right being a democrat for as long as I have lived in this town I voted for OC the last election MY MISTAKE .... will not make that mistake again.
Now being what we call a DCOB supporter I am here to tell one and all When the time comes, and I hope it will be soon, if I don't hear from the Lovero camp what I feel is a good plan to take this city forward I am here to say all bets are off.
So where does that leave this DCOB supporter? ALL DRESSED UP WITH NOWHERE TO GO
So please stop the BS about why can't they tell us......
All I can say is 4 years with this man is ENOUGH
Wow, see now we are getting somewhere. Ok let's update the rundown.
Patsy- not a resident, no voting privilege, who cares.
Bear- Not really a DCOB supporter, just an O'Connor hater.
FedUp- ***see above
Felix- Most likely the buddy factor I spoke of in an above post
Angiebear- ?????? Come on Angie, just tell us so we can put this whole controversy to bed!
Like everyone else, I am waiting for the full details of the DCOB platform, but we already know the basic themes and focus will be on fighting/reducing crime, professionalizing city services, revitalizing business areas, bringing back senior/youth programs, etc. (I believe this has all been in the Life and/or discussed at some of their events that were open to the public or on their website). Still vague (probably intentional so the political game of trying to pick it apart can't be played) and really nothing mind-blowing, and I would not be surprised if O'Connor will have similar focuses, although we've already seen him try to tackle these issues and I would argue that the results have not been satisfactory to many.
I don't hate O'Connor, and I think he has done some good and he seems to have some good people on his slate, but in my own opinion he's not the guy that can turn this town around due to leadership issues and due to past performance.
Quote from: FedUp on January 20, 2009, 03:08:41 PM
Lets try and set the record straight if we can. The question is and has been why do I (we) support the DCOB? Why can't I (we) tell you why we support the DCOB? What does the DCOB stand for? What will Lovero do if he is elected?
Guess what people WE DON'T KNOW EITHER.....
Here is what I do know...... I know I cannot ever again support OC ...Thats right being a democrat for as long as I have lived in this town I voted for OC the last election MY MISTAKE .... will not make that mistake again.
Now being what we call a DCOB supporter I am here to tell one and all When the time comes, and I hope it will be soon, if I don't hear from the Lovero camp what I feel is a good plan to take this city forward I am here to say all bets are off.
So where does that leave this DCOB supporter? ALL DRESSED UP WITH NOWHERE TO GO
So please stop the BS about why can't they tell us......
All I can say is 4 years with this man is ENOUGH
f.u.,
first off, i've missed you.
second off, what exactly am i missing about o'connor, (you referred to your vote as a mistake, why?)
"i will extend my hand to you if you unclench your fist"
mike
"I don't hate O'Connor, and I think he has done some good and he seems to have some good people on his slate, but in my own opinion he's not the guy that can turn this town around due to leadership issues and due to past performance."
Well said Angie...At the end of the day it is all about failed leadership
and past performance. Berwyn has simply languished for four years.
Quote from: lawndale on January 20, 2009, 07:11:47 AM
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on January 20, 2009, 12:47:15 AM
You have read this board, you know exactly who I am speaking about.
Felix, Bear, Patsy, FedUp, AngieBear...there are others that don't come to mind right away.
That's it? FOUR......1-2-3-4 people????? That is what this is all about? And out of those four, you have Bear in there and....well.
Brian, again you are living in the very remote world of BTF. Why in the hell would you rely on someone to post a message HERE, especially those four?? You have been asking for this for MONTHS, even well before the candidates announced a slate. All the well fully knowing they did not have a platform to run on yet. You are a man about town right? I know you are in that group of "in the know" Berwyn politicos I spoke of in a previous thread. I know my suggestion has become a BTF cliche, but why don't you go to 22nd & Oak Park and sit and talk with Bobby? Just "ask him" as they say! Seriously. You are an administrator of a "well known" communications medium here in town right? Wouldn't it have been advantageous for you to go and speak directly with the "devil" himself? Would have saved you a hell of a lot of typing at least. I know that's what I would have done. As a matter of fact that is what I did. I did not speak to Bobby directly but I got a lot of info from very close people in the know as well as a few of his candidates themselves. I also attended some IVB functions and heard what their candidates had to say. I also met and spoke with a few of them personally. If you are that concerned you will do your due diligence before you pass judgement or even praise on a public forum, especially if this whole matter is as important to you as you say it is..
lawn,
technically, that's FIVE.
mike
"technically, that's FIVE"
Why that is very good mikey! we are so proud
of you learning how to use your fingers.
It did take you awhile, but you can work on that.
Quote from: AngieBear68 on January 20, 2009, 04:56:03 PM
Quote from: lawndale on January 20, 2009, 04:02:30 PM
Quote from: FedUp on January 20, 2009, 03:08:41 PM
Lets try and set the record straight if we can. The question is and has been why do I (we) support the DCOB? Why can't I (we) tell you why we support the DCOB? What does the DCOB stand for? What will Lovero do if he is elected?
Guess what people WE DON'T KNOW EITHER.....
Here is what I do know...... I know I cannot ever again support OC ...Thats right being a democrat for as long as I have lived in this town I voted for OC the last election MY MISTAKE .... will not make that mistake again.
Now being what we call a DCOB supporter I am here to tell one and all When the time comes, and I hope it will be soon, if I don't hear from the Lovero camp what I feel is a good plan to take this city forward I am here to say all bets are off.
So where does that leave this DCOB supporter? ALL DRESSED UP WITH NOWHERE TO GO
So please stop the BS about why can't they tell us......
All I can say is 4 years with this man is ENOUGH
Wow, see now we are getting somewhere. Ok let's update the rundown.
Patsy- not a resident, no voting privilege, who cares.
Bear- Not really a DCOB supporter, just an O'Connor hater.
FedUp- ***see above
Felix- Most likely the buddy factor I spoke of in an above post
Angiebear- ?????? Come on Angie, just tell us so we can put this whole controversy to bed!
Like everyone else, I am waiting for the full details of the DCOB platform, but we already know the basic themes and focus will be on fighting/reducing crime, professionalizing city services, revitalizing business areas, bringing back senior/youth programs, etc. (I believe this has all been in the Life and/or discussed at some of their events that were open to the public or on their website). Still vague (probably intentional so the political game of trying to pick it apart can't be played) and really nothing mind-blowing, and I would not be surprised if O'Connor will have similar focuses, although we've already seen him try to tackle these issues and I would argue that the results have not been satisfactory to many.
I don't hate O'Connor, and I think he has done some good and he seems to have some good people on his slate, but in my own opinion he's not the guy that can turn this town around due to leadership issues and due to past performance.
Well there you have it. Ask and ye shall receive! ;D FINALLY! Answers to this age old debate!
Now shall we move on to why the "IVB supporters" support O'Connor? I believe Brian already answered on his end (someone may need to dig up his response), maybe the others can enlighten us?
Hey Brian, how am I doing? I am just "moderating" a healthy debate! If I work hard enough could you make me an assistant moderator? ;D :D ;)
Mike, all five have been accounted for. See my quote in the above post from angiebear. Here is an update anyway.
WHY WE SUPPORT THE DCOB
Patsy- not a resident, no voting privilege, who cares.
Bear- Not really a DCOB supporter, just an O'Connor hater.
FedUp- ***see above
Felix- Most likely the buddy factor I spoke of in an above post
Angiebear- Wants to hear more on the DCOB platform, but does not feel that O'Connor has cut the mustard, aka ANOTHER O'Connor hater.
Quote from: Bear on January 20, 2009, 05:20:38 PM
"technically, that's FIVE"
Why that is very good mikey! we are so proud
of you learning how to use your fingers.
It did take you awhile, but you can work on that.
bearly relevant idiot czar,
it's called h-u-m-o-r. i was being h-u-m-o-r-o-u-s.
i figured out yet another reason i don't like you. you're a
hypocriteit really
grates you that i can like & support o'connor without expecting
anything in return,
doesn't it?
so, if you're following: you criticize me for supporting mike and getting "favors", (even though i don't get any)
and yet you turn on him after not getting a banner contract? bear=hypocrite
i'll tell you what, i'll probably be at lanotte's early next week, maybe monday, for a bite to eat.
why don't you show up and we'll take it from there?
mike
If that happens, I'm buying, for BOTH!!!
LOL!!!
Quote from: Bear on January 20, 2009, 05:06:49 PM
"I don't hate O'Connor, and I think he has done some good and he seems to have some good people on his slate, but in my own opinion he's not the guy that can turn this town around due to leadership issues and due to past performance."
Well said Angie...At the end of the day it is all about failed leadership
and past performance. Berwyn has simply languished for four years.
Leadership? You want leadership and you look to Lovero? LOL.
The guy has introduced NOTHING of substance for the last four years he has been on council, and you consider him a leader? Or do you consider him a leader because he got a few halfwits who were only interested in enriching their friends or family to band together with him?
I think it's unfair to keep slamming Lovero for having no platform. Don't his shoes count?
"i'll tell you what, i'll probably be at lanotte's early next week, maybe monday, for a bite to eat.
why don't you show up and we'll take it from there?"
Sounds great!...Let's invite Zobra and lawndale as well...
I am so there!
Quote from: Bear on January 20, 2009, 06:39:42 PM
"i'll tell you what, i'll probably be at lanotte's early next week, maybe monday, for a bite to eat.
why don't you show up and we'll take it from there?"
Sounds great!...Let's invite Zobra and lawndale as well...
I am so there!
great, it's a date. see you @ 6:00
Ahh, Apat, no one asked us to join the boys?
Sorry guys, have a previous commitment at 6, but I CAN do lunch.
Maybe Bonster can fill in for me?
I'll pick up Patsy's tab if she shows, Mike.
It's OK, Patsy. Let them hash it out and we'll take on the winner.
LOL!
Quote from: k6s2zvfw on January 20, 2009, 06:49:34 PM
Quote from: Bear on January 20, 2009, 06:39:42 PM
"i'll tell you what, i'll probably be at lanotte's early next week, maybe monday, for a bite to eat.
why don't you show up and we'll take it from there?"
Sounds great!...Let's invite Zobra and lawndale as well...
I am so there!
great, it's a date. see you @ 6:00
BREAKING NEWS!!!!Zorba
can make it a 6 p.m. this Monday.
What do you say Bear ole boy, gonna stop by and break some bread with Zorba and Slinkman?
Think of it this way, no more cheap beer for you, I'm buying all the grappa you can drink. ;)