5/13/08 Council

[markweiner]

Too late SILK.

[Paul Fuentes]

What he does on his own time, what party he supports, means SHIT to me as long as he does his job between the hours he punches in and out. 

Challenge me on that

If you strongly support a certain political member then promotions, even those based on merit, give the appearance of impropriety, right or wrong.  Think Berwyn.
Having lived here this long, I'm surprised you don't realize that!  (I was told this officer hasn't supported Lovero via PM from someone in the know. (He will, now! (Nice work, Erickson)))

But.......I thought the idea was to block votes from people with certain interests, like Skryd, not to deny promotions when deserved? 

Sassetti was actually denied?  Or was the promotion simply not granted due to the fiasco that ensued?

For now Sassetti was dnied,

As far as the "appearance of impropriety" argument, I agree with it in general terms, but  you have to realize we live in Mayberry R.F.D.  So every cop on the street will have a friendship to someone pulling the strings at whatever level. 

Furthermore, (my own philosophy) nothing in life is black and white, everything is gray, and requires a continuous eye to check and balance. 

So let's take Sassetti as an example.  Even if the allegations that he supported the DCOB was substantiated as true, I would still have to weigh the benefit and loss.

So here is how I would do my math.  He will bring in (at best) 100 votes for the DCOB.  Meanwhile, he locks up 2 to 3 shit heads a week, i.e. taking them off the streets that you walk and talk.  They can't make bond...his paper is so solid that I have to plea them to jail time....so shit head is away from Berwyn for a minimum of a year, often times more. 

Now I know I am not a smart man (Forrest Gump) but my mama always said that stupid as stupid does.  So for now, I will accept the 100 vote loss while having 2 to 3 shot heads gone from the streets I walk.

Bottom Line

He deserves the stripes. 

Grant them and pay him his just due.

[Paul Fuentes]

Paul:

Very unfair question of Terri, although I hope she runs and indicates so. The earlier people know you are running the better.

Why is it unfair? Because when I asked you about future political plans, be it you or your friend(s), you indicated you could not and would not tell me.

You would not tell me anything about a non-partisan referendum. You would not tell me if your friend was running to be an Alderman, Mayor, or any other position.

You would not tell me about a City-Manager form of government referendum.

Nada.

Mark

Mark

Correct wherever I am wrong.

1.  I have only spoken to you about 3 or 4 times this year.

2.  The second to last conversation we had (we had one today) revolved around your question as to whether Frank Amaro was running for Mayor.  True or False?  My response was (at that time) Frank had just won election for Commissioner and I had no comment on any future political plans.

3.  The first conversation we EVER had about a non-partisan referendum was TODAY.  We spoke about other PARTISAN scenarios, but never a nonpartisan referndum.

4.  We have never discussed the City Manager form of government until today.   And I'll be the first to tell all here that we both though the idea was premature.   

Again, feel free to correct me wherever I might be wrong.

Paul Fuentes

[Paul Fuentes]

P,S, Terri...rumor on the street is that u will run for 2nd ward alderman as an IVB Candidate against Boyagian and Ramos.

Is there any truth to that rumor??


Just asking

That question is bullshit my friend, and you know it.

Unless of course you want people asking YOU questions.

Since when did we get into rumor verification on this site?

Let's get something straight.

First of all, I have people asking me questions all the time.  It comes with the territory when you participate in politics, and more so when you manage a campaign or run for political office.   

As far as whether my assertion is rumor or fact, I am asserting is as fact and nothing you offer disproves it in terms of evidence provided.  You should know. 

Finally, you would merit far more of a response if you just posted under your real identity (not a made up handle) just as I do.   I know who you are.  But that is irrelevant. 

If you want to debate then place a name on the avatar.

Scoons Basement

[Bonster]

What he does on his own time, what party he supports, means SHIT to me as long as he does his job between the hours he punches in and out. 

Challenge me on that

If you strongly support a certain political member then promotions, even those based on merit, give the appearance of impropriety, right or wrong.  Think Berwyn.
Having lived here this long, I'm surprised you don't realize that!  (I was told this officer hasn't supported Lovero via PM from someone in the know. (He will, now! (Nice work, Erickson)))

But.......I thought the idea was to block votes from people with certain interests, like Skryd, not to deny promotions when deserved? 

Sassetti was actually denied?  Or was the promotion simply not granted due to the fiasco that ensued?

For now Sassetti was dnied,

As far as the "appearance of impropriety" argument, I agree with it in general terms, but  you have to realize we live in Mayberry R.F.D.  So every cop on the street will have a friendship to someone pulling the strings at whatever level.  

Even if the allegations that he supported the DCOB was substantiated as true, I would still have to weigh the benefit and loss.

He will bring in (at best) 100 votes for the DCOB.  Meanwhile, he locks up 2 to 3 shit heads a week,

You should be able to do your job without politicizing it like certain other members of this board.   The only benefits are for yourself ("pulling strings").

This has nothing to do with Sassetti's promotion, just the votes and from whom they would come.
Too bad.

Now, can he still be promoted?  Was there actually a binding vote on this?

[ZORBA]

P,S, Terri...rumor on the street is that u will run for 2nd ward alderman as an IVB Candidate against Boyagian and Ramos.

Is there any truth to that rumor??


Just asking

That question is bullshit my friend, and you know it.

Unless of course you want people asking YOU questions.

Since when did we get into rumor verification on this site?

Let's get something straight.

First of all, I have people asking me questions all the time.  It comes with the territory when you participate in politics, and more so when you manage a campaign or run for political office.   

As far as whether my assertion is rumor or fact, I am asserting is as fact and nothing you offer disproves it in terms of evidence provided.  You should know. 

Finally, you would merit far more of a response if you just posted under your real identity (not a made up handle) just as I do.   I know who you are.  But that is irrelevant. 

If you want to debate then place a name on the avatar.

Scoons Basement

You don't want to go there, do you?

I'll leave it at that, for now, but if you want to continue taking potshots at private citizens that may change. Simply because YOU assert something as fact doesn't make it so. I don't have to offer anything. YOU'RE the party that took the shot and made an assertion.

Lastly, I post under whatever the f@#$k name it is I want to post under. My prerogative. The rest of the of the bullshit bravado leave for others.

Those that live in glass homes should not cast stones.

[ZORBA]

What he does on his own time, what party he supports, means SHIT to me as long as he does his job between the hours he punches in and out. 

Challenge me on that

If you strongly support a certain political member then promotions, even those based on merit, give the appearance of impropriety, right or wrong.  Think Berwyn.
Having lived here this long, I'm surprised you don't realize that!  (I was told this officer hasn't supported Lovero via PM from someone in the know. (He will, now! (Nice work, Erickson)))

But.......I thought the idea was to block votes from people with certain interests, like Skryd, not to deny promotions when deserved? 

Sassetti was actually denied?  Or was the promotion simply not granted due to the fiasco that ensued?

For now Sassetti was dnied,

As far as the "appearance of impropriety" argument, I agree with it in general terms, but  you have to realize we live in Mayberry R.F.D.  So every cop on the street will have a friendship to someone pulling the strings at whatever level. 

Furthermore, (my own philosophy) nothing in life is black and white, everything is gray, and requires a continuous eye to check and balance. 

So let's take Sassetti as an example.  Even if the allegations that he supported the DCOB was substantiated as true, I would still have to weigh the benefit and loss.

So here is how I would do my math.  He will bring in (at best) 100 votes for the DCOB.  Meanwhile, he locks up 2 to 3 shit heads a week, i.e. taking them off the streets that you walk and talk.  They can't make bond...his paper is so solid that I have to plea them to jail time....so shit head is away from Berwyn for a minimum of a year, often times more. 

Now I know I am not a smart man (Forrest Gump) but my mama always said that stupid as stupid does.  So for now, I will accept the 100 vote loss while having 2 to 3 shot heads gone from the streets I walk.

Bottom Line

He deserves the stripes. 

Grant them and pay him his just due.

Wow.

Great analysis. So every cop gets carte blanche?

Nothing against Jimmy Sassetti, but your logic is tenuous at best, absurd at its worst.

[OakParkSpartan]

Bonster,

Yes, he can still be promoted.  This vote was only upon a grievance which was filed.  Probably the next step is court...just guessing though.  Maybe someone who knows can chime in.

I suspect a large part of the reason revolves around the state of city finances, which are suffering from reduced income and increased expenses.  At some point council is going to need to address this problem.  OC deserves some of the blame (for expenditures), but council has also refused to approve revenue that was included in the budget.

[OakParkSpartan]

Regarding the meeting, I forgot to mention that during open forum Lovero recognized Tony Laureto as the 2008 Teeter award recipient.  I believe the award is given for community service.

Congrats Tony!

[Bonster]

What's the Teeter Award, and how does one get selected for it?

[Paul Fuentes]

Paul:

Very unfair question of Terri, although I hope she runs and indicates so. The earlier people know you are running the better.

Why is it unfair? Because when I asked you about future political plans, be it you or your friend(s), you indicated you could not and would not tell me.

You would not tell me anything about a non-partisan referendum. You would not tell me if your friend was running to be an Alderman, Mayor, or any other position.

You would not tell me about a City-Manager form of government referendum.

Nada.

Mark

Mark

Correct wherever I am wrong.

1.  I have only spoken to you about 3 or 4 times this year.

2.  The second to last conversation we had (we had one today) revolved around your question as to whether Frank Amaro was running for Mayor.  True or False?  My response was (at that time) Frank had just won election for Commissioner and I had no comment on any future political plans.

3.  The first conversation we EVER had about a non-partisan referendum was TODAY.  We spoke about other PARTISAN scenarios, but never a nonpartisan referndum.

4.  We have never discussed the City Manager form of government until today.   And I'll be the first to tell all here that we both though the idea was premature.   

Again, feel free to correct me wherever I might be wrong.

Paul Fuentes

Waited over 48 hours now....


Seems the nads of lame ducks only get "inflated" for a rather short duration.

Nuff Said

[Paul Fuentes]

P,S, Terri...rumor on the street is that u will run for 2nd ward alderman as an IVB Candidate against Boyagian and Ramos.

Is there any truth to that rumor??


Just asking

That question is bullshit my friend, and you know it.

Unless of course you want people asking YOU questions.

Since when did we get into rumor verification on this site?

Let's get something straight.

First of all, I have people asking me questions all the time.  It comes with the territory when you participate in politics, and more so when you manage a campaign or run for political office.   

As far as whether my assertion is rumor or fact, I am asserting is as fact and nothing you offer disproves it in terms of evidence provided.  You should know. 

Finally, you would merit far more of a response if you just posted under your real identity (not a made up handle) just as I do.   I know who you are.  But that is irrelevant. 

If you want to debate then place a name on the avatar.

Scoons Basement

You don't want to go there, do you?

I'll leave it at that, for now, but if you want to continue taking potshots at private citizens that may change. Simply because YOU assert something as fact doesn't make it so. I don't have to offer anything. YOU'RE the party that took the shot and made an assertion.

Lastly, I post under whatever the f@#$k name it is I want to post under. My prerogative. The rest of the of the bullshit bravado leave for others.

Those that live in glass homes should not cast stones.

As far as I am concerned, I am willing to "go there".   I did the math. 

Furthermore, last I checked, I do NOT live in a glass house.

We seem to agree on all points save one.  Let that go.  It has nothing to do with u and if insist on taking the battlefield, then u are ignorant about politics.  Moreover, u, win or lose, will get bloodied and suffer more than u may think. 

Choose ur battles wisely.

U do not live here, u do not have interest in the pie, but if u insist on the fight, so be it. 

Have a Great Day

Jose Luis

[ZORBA]

I'm having a great day. And I understand politics all too well. What I don't understand and will never stomach is flip flopping and lack of principle.

I choose all my battles wisely. Others have also made idle threats, subtley or directly. I'm still here, though. Sometimes, its not to wise to have 5 bullets left when confronted with a six shooter.

Dirty Harry

[ZORBA]

Mr. Fuentes,

After reading your posts once again, I'm not so sure what point we disagree on, but two things come to mind.


1. I assume you will once again lead any potentials campaigns of Terri Shonder, as you so capably did last time around, coming within a few votes of a major upset.

2. I know EXACTLY how much I will bleed. The real question is, do others know how much THEY will bleed?

Chuck Wepner

[ZORBA]

Caveat for the above is that Ms. Shonder actually DOES run. And my comments are made given the fact that Mr. Fuentes is THE Republican political straegist in town. Seems like a natural fit. What say you Mr. Fuentes? You only missed by a few votes last time.

[Paul Fuentes]

Caveat for the above is that Ms. Shonder actually DOES run. And my comments are made given the fact that Mr. Fuentes is THE Republican political straegist in town. Seems like a natural fit. What say you Mr. Fuentes? You only missed by a few votes last time.

Are u stupid?

The next time around she will run as an IVB candidate kissing the ring of OC, same as before. 

Where do U miss the point???

Abe Lilncoln

[ZORBA]

So you managed the campaign of a candidate who kissed the ring of OC last time around?

Who's stupid, you or I?

[Paul Fuentes]

So you managed the campaign of a candidate who kissed the ring of OC last time around?

Who's stupid, you or I?

You decide

You still defend while I have dispersed. 

And as we are all posting here as HONEST citizens. can U please tell the rest what interest u have in Berwyn or any candidate that may run? 

Rufus

[ZORBA]

That's the problem. You disperse ASAP, at the first sign of adversity, or when you perceive the grass is greener on the other side of fence. The problem with your strategy is that in such a mall sphere as Berwyn, everyone has figured it out, even those you now kibbitz with. don't be surprised if its YOU thas dispersed with once you've outlived your usefulness.

As to what my interest is and who I support, I'll let you go first-why don't you tell the good people of Berwyn which candidateS YOU support. Cause these matters tend to fluctuate and vary greatly with you, as past history tells us.

[Paul Fuentes]

That's the problem. You disperse ASAP, at the first sign of adversity, or when you perceive the grass is greener on the other side of fence. The problem with your strategy is that in such a mall sphere as Berwyn, everyone has figured it out, even those you now kibbitz with. don't be surprised if its YOU thas dispersed with once you've outlived your usefulness.

As to what my interest is and who I support, I'll let you go first-why don't you tell the good people of Berwyn which candidateS YOU support. Cause these matters tend to fluctuate and vary greatly with you, as past history tells us.

That question comes from a person that lived in Westchester since 2001, was on the voter rolls for years after he moved out, then all of a sudden voted in the 2005 general election.

Once gain, do u really want to go there??

PF