6/23/09 city council

[OakParkSpartan]

Buzz says _"_I don't care if they cling from ceiling fans as long as they
end their bickering and get something constructive done."
Ah now your talking, ya old buzzard! LOL. 
That's the way city hall should work.  It is fair to say, just give the
new administration some time.
What does one want from their city?  Reasonable taxes, good schools,
clean streets, fast snow removal, low crime and good neighbors. growth and development.
If these things fall into place, who cares which way the cc chairs face?
The placement of the cc seating in the last administration, had
little or no effect on decision making. Although I do admit, when OC was first
elected, I thought the cc members should face the audience.  I have since
changed my mind.
If any thing the seating arrangement only  made for entertainment to the audience,
it was like watching a bad show!

So the council members asinine behavior was somehow OC's fault?  He certainly was not without responsibility, but when Nona or Skryd or Phelan or Erickson went whacko, that was their doing.  THEY were the ones acting like a bunch of white trash children.

[Ted]

...  What does one want from their city?  Reasonable taxes, good schools,
clean streets, fast snow removal who cares which way the cc chairs face? ...  

I care.  It's a public meeting and public meetings should be done facing the public.

That's like the people excusing the D201 board for not announcing all bids or contracts, saying as long as the money gets paid, who cares whether the amounts of the contracts are announced publicly.

The purpose of a public meeting is to inform the public and let the public know what's going on.

I also agree that the current city council chamber layout is awkward because the aldermanic bench is in the middle of the room so that aldermen had to turn backwards to address the mayor.

The answer is simple (and I made the same suggestion when O'Connor was mayor) - get rid of the mayor's throne, move the aldermanic bench along the north wall facing the audience and have the mayor sit in the middle at the same level as the aldermen.  The city clerk and his assistant sit along the west wall and the city treasurer and lawyer sit along the east wall.

 It's the same U-shaped format facing the audience that is used in every other government body meeting I have ever attended.

Ted

[Berwyn Patsy]

Ted, the asinine behavior on that CC floor was divided amongest
the group almost evenly during the last 4 years.
OC was the leader and in my opinion should have been able to control
that kind of behavior, it after all was his meetings.
Team work, Ted, that's all I'm saying, there never was any, oh I take
that back, it only lasted about 1 month, then they all began to jump ship.
Your opinion is yours, and I respect you for that, but from
my own experience at CC meetings, I would just want my city/town/village
to run smoothly, and I don't need to look at people snickering and making
faces, if that were to be the case.

[Ted]

Ted, the asinine behavior on that CC floor was divided amongest the group almost evenly during the last 4 years. OC was the leader and in my opinion should have been able to control that kind of behavior, it after all was his meetings. Team work, Ted, that's all I'm saying, there never was any, oh I take that back, it only lasted about 1 month, then they all began to jump ship. Your opinion is yours, and I respect you for that, but from  my own experience at CC meetings, I would just want my city/town/village to run smoothly, and I don't need to look at people snickering and making  faces, if that were to be the case.

Pat,

I am not excusing the assinine behaviour. I am simply saying that the aldermen should be facing the public in their meetings. They should not have their backs to the public.

And, if you are suggesting that the assissine behaviour is due to aldermen facing the audience, then I beg to differ.  The behaviour was due to the invididuals involved. It had nothing do to with the fact they were facing the audience.

 As I said, I have attended D98 board meeting, D100 board meetings, Park District board meetings and I have attended D201 board meetings in 7 difference locations.  I have also attended village board meetings in other suburbs. In all cases, the room was set up so that the board members faced the public.

 Berwyn city council should be the same way.

Ted

[mustang54]

  If you go to a Chicago city council meeting,any house of representitives or senate chambers state or federal the backs of the officials always face the gallery.

[OakParkSpartan]

  If you go to a Chicago city council meeting,any house of representitives or senate chambers state or federal the backs of the officials always face the gallery.

How many people are in those bodies?  Oh, Chicago...50 aldermen?  House...400+, senate 100+?

We are talking 8 people here.  Not dozens. 

Oh, and last time I was there, the chambers of the house and senate had galleries for the public.

Apples to lychee fruit comparison.

[Terri]

Chapman and Polanchek were missing.  Both were stated to be on vacation.

The DCOB publicist is the only one who may set up his cameras on the platform to record the meeting.  He may get a contract, per the city clerk.   Why am I mentioning this?  Because they turned the chairs around so the council members backs are towards the audience.

They hired an assistant for Pabst.  No duties discussed, no salary discussed, nothing about what line item this would be paid from.

They didn't waive the hiring freeze which came up each and every time OC wanted to hire someone.

Lots of stop signs and parking signs.  

It was all over in 35 minutes.

Are you joking about a DCOB publicist contracted to tape the meetings?  The Open Meeting Act states rules regarding taping should be written and published after public notice, did this happen?  

http://www.illinoisattorneygeneral.gov/government/openmeet.pdf
The Open Meetings Act states "It is not appropriate for public bodies to create rules on the spot. Rather, rules should be written and published after appropriate public notice and deliberation."

[OakParkSpartan]

Chapman and Polanchek were missing.  Both were stated to be on vacation.

The DCOB publicist is the only one who may set up his cameras on the platform to record the meeting.  He may get a contract, per the city clerk.   Why am I mentioning this?  Because they turned the chairs around so the council members backs are towards the audience.

They hired an assistant for Pabst.  No duties discussed, no salary discussed, nothing about what line item this would be paid from.

They didn't waive the hiring freeze which came up each and every time OC wanted to hire someone.

Lots of stop signs and parking signs.  

It was all over in 35 minutes.

Are you joking about a DCOB publicist contracted to tape the meetings?  The Open Meeting Act states rules regarding taping should be written and published after public notice, did this happen?  

http://www.illinoisattorneygeneral.gov/government/openmeet.pdf
The Open Meetings Act states "It is not appropriate for public bodies to create rules on the spot. Rather, rules should be written and published after appropriate public notice and deliberation."

No, I am not joking.  He *may* get a contract.

And anyone is free to tape the council.  He's just the only one getting preferential treatment so that he can actually film the aldermen.

[Terri]

Chapman and Polanchek were missing.  Both were stated to be on vacation.

The DCOB publicist is the only one who may set up his cameras on the platform to record the meeting.  He may get a contract, per the city clerk.   Why am I mentioning this?  Because they turned the chairs around so the council members backs are towards the audience.

They hired an assistant for Pabst.  No duties discussed, no salary discussed, nothing about what line item this would be paid from.

They didn't waive the hiring freeze which came up each and every time OC wanted to hire someone.

Lots of stop signs and parking signs.  

It was all over in 35 minutes.

Are you joking about a DCOB publicist contracted to tape the meetings?  The Open Meeting Act states rules regarding taping should be written and published after public notice, did this happen?  

http://www.illinoisattorneygeneral.gov/government/openmeet.pdf
The Open Meetings Act states "It is not appropriate for public bodies to create rules on the spot. Rather, rules should be written and published after appropriate public notice and deliberation."

No, I am not joking.  He *may* get a contract.

And anyone is free to tape the council.  He's just the only one getting preferential treatment so that he can actually film the aldermen.

So I am clear, Mr."may get a contract" is the only one allowed to step onto council floor to tape the faces of the Alderman? All others can tape the Alderman's backsides?

[mustang54]

  If you go to a Chicago city council meeting,any house of representitives or senate chambers state or federal the backs of the officials always face the gallery.

Oh, and last time I was there, the chambers of the house and senate had galleries for the public.

Apples to lychee fruit comparison.

I said they had galleries. And when you sit in the galleries the backs of the officials face the gallery. People who attend meetings as spectators are usually there to hear whats going on aren't they?

[JSlaught]

City Council mtgs are NOT public meetings. They are meetings between the Mayor and council members that are open to the public. A big difference. The assinine move was by OC when he turned the seats around to face the audience. IMO should never have been done this way. Council members should be facing the Mayor.

As for the statement made of Lovero sitting up on his perch....he didn't design the chambers. As a matter of fact he would like to arrange the room so the alderman sit on either side so as to be able to address both audience and council members as well as the mayor. If the money was there thats what I believe would happen, but he can't justify the cost.

[Bonster]

City Council mtgs are NOT public meetings. They are meetings between the Mayor and council members that are open to the public. A big difference.
Open to the public, but not public?  No, not a big difference.  The COW is not a public meeting.
"It's not my show... but I'm on that show."


The assinine move was by OC when he turned the seats around to face the audience. IMO should never have been done this way.
Council members should be facing the Mayor.
IMO = IN MY OPINION.    So it's YOUR opinion that turning the seats to face the audience taxpayers was asinine.
Tell us exactly WHY the council members should face der Führer?  You can't.  Just asinine opinions.


As a matter of fact he would like to arrange the room so the alderman sit on either side so as to be able to address both audience and council members as well as the mayor.
Not fact.  Now you're making shit up.

[JSlaught]

You slay me Bonster....And you wonder why more people don't offer up opinions.

Actually your response is exactlly what I expected from one of the more prominent GENIUSES on BTF.

Thank you for holding true.

Open to the public and a public meeting IS world of difference...sorry but you're wrong

Making shit up...I don't think so.

[Bonster]

And you wonder why more people don't offer up opinions.
No, I don't.  When someone's opinion is prefaced by "assinine" (spelled wrong), their true colors shine through.


Open to the public and a public meeting IS world of difference
Hint: Don't confuse a public meeting with a public hearing.  Again, WHY should they be turning their backs on us?

Making shit up...I don't think so.
Give us reason to think otherwise.  You won't.


Your screen name should be FedUp, but JNaught will do.
Thank you for holding true.

[Terri]

City Council mtgs are NOT public meetings. They are meetings between the Mayor and council members that are open to the public. A big difference. The assinine move was by OC when he turned the seats around to face the audience. IMO should never have been done this way. Council members should be facing the Mayor.

As for the statement made of Lovero sitting up on his perch....he didn't design the chambers. As a matter of fact he would like to arrange the room so the alderman sit on either side so as to be able to address both audience and council members as well as the mayor. If the money was there thats what I believe would happen, but he can't justify the cost.

The Mayor and Council members are meeting to conduct the peoples business so I'd say it is a public meeting. The Open Meetings Act also states meetings should be conducted in public view. Public view is now the Alderman's backs.  

One more thing, Home Rule units are specifically required to comply with the Open Meetings Act and cannot adopt weaker standards. Just in case anyone was wondering.  

[JSlaught]

For years ..as long as we have had a council chambers the aldermens chairs faced the Mayor.
One Mayor, OC, changed that for 4 years. Now that they have been put back there is an uproar. Why not the uproar for the previous 50 or so years. OC wanted to bring the people into the meeting...well we see how that worked out .

p.s. Bonster please forgive the misspelling....I am not one of the geniuses (Thank God).

[Bonster]

It wasn't an uproar, but a discussion.  You came in roaring stating it was "assinine" to face the taxpayers, but you cannot (as per usual) back yourself up.

[OakParkSpartan]

For years ..as long as we have had a council chambers the aldermens chairs faced the Mayor.
One Mayor, OC, changed that for 4 years. Now that they have been put back there is an uproar. Why not the uproar for the previous 50 or so years. OC wanted to bring the people into the meeting...well we see how that worked out .

p.s. Bonster please forgive the misspelling....I am not one of the geniuses (Thank God).

Maybe because there are people that live here who are willing and not afraid to speak up and question the elected officials?

[Berwyn Patsy]

I think your right Brian, all were so fed up with the way the administration
worked before OC, people did voice their opinions and demanded changes.
OC was put under pressure and tried.  Who knows, had he been able
to keep his meetings civil,  things may have been different.
I am not totally blaming him, it was just one of those things and the
personalities clashed and facing the audience became a tragic scene so
many times it was ridicules.
Maybe Mayor Lovero has a bad taste in his mouth ??   Give it a some time,
or voice your opinions again.  Question though, does the council still
use their microphones and can the audience hear??
If I could not hear sitting in the audience, that would be a concern I would
bring up.

[JSlaught]

For years ..as long as we have had a council chambers the aldermens chairs faced the Mayor.
One Mayor, OC, changed that for 4 years. Now that they have been put back there is an uproar. Why not the uproar for the previous 50 or so years. OC wanted to bring the people into the meeting...well we see how that worked out .

p.s. Bonster please forgive the misspelling....I am not one of the geniuses (Thank God).

Maybe because there are people that live here who are willing and not afraid to speak up and question the elected officials?

And you can only do this if the chairs face you?