Tax Levy Hearing, December 28, 2009

[Ted]

  I was going over the numbers from Monday night and the numbers don't foot - at least if the city expects the motion from Monday night to yield a $345K deficit rather than a $3.3 million dollar deficit.

We were told Monday night that the deficit without a tax increase would have been $3.3 million dollars.

We were told Monday night that a 5% tax increase would result in a total levy before abatement of $24.769 milion dollars and that that would reduce the deficit to $2.3 million dollars.

 Nona Chapman made a motion to levy $26 million dollars.  That is $1.231 million over the 5% levy increase of $24.769 million.

 But, that additional $1.231 will reduce the deficit from $2.3 million to around $1.1 million, not $345,000.

 So, unless I misheard or misunderstood the motion, the city is still going to have a deficit of over $1 million dollars.  In order to have a $345K deficit, the motion would have had to have been for a levy of $26,700,000.

Did I miss something?  Is there something wrong in my arithmetic?

 Ted

[n01_important]

If you are right... I would say the "incompetent" theory wins.   

[MRS. NORTHSIDER]

If you are right... I would say the "incompetent" theory wins.   

I would call it the "smoke and mirrors" defense which this administration seems to be perfecting at every turn.  I would recommend a "special expenditure" for new calculators for city officials.

[OakParkSpartan]

Unions, Unions, city workers again you ASSUME. You assume nothing is being done even when you are told things are changing. You are the one pitting employees against taxpayers. You are the one assuming what the negotiations will bring. You are the one that is crying foul at every turn.

The fact of the matter is our economy sucks and we need help from ALL not just the unions.
1st things 1st.

You cry foul at every turn. How can you tell the milk is spoiled if they haven't poured it yet.
You once again ASSUME that we the taxpayers will be the only ones bearing the load. NEWS FLASH if we are the only ones we cannot make it and we are all doomed.

We were told council was planning a 5% tax increase.  They (The Mayor and aldermen) didn't tell the truth.
They claim that they are cutting expenses, yet by their numbers, they have added almost three quarters of a million dollars to the city payroll over since coming into office.

So what should we believe?  Their past behavior or their false statements?

[OakParkSpartan]

And at the moment mayor nimrod and his gang of lemmes voted to raise taxes 15%. BTW- we all thought it was 5% increase but I'm sure you knew ahead of time that they were switching it to 15% at the last minute.

Who are the REAL LEMMES and NIMRODS here?

Lovero and his seven self serving muppets, or YOU (and your like) the taxpayer who let these con artists into office?

The real lemmes and nimrods are those who:

a) supported "candidates" like Frank Amaro (are u listening Mrs. N?), Jack Meshek, and Tony Castrogiovanni, thus helping pave the way to office for the DCOB and its candidates, and

b) those initial IVB city council members who did not jump ship yet did enough public damage to OC to help the only other viable mayoral candidate get into office, Winston Churchill divide and conquer style (are u listening Mr. Phelan and Mr. Erickson?), and

c) those IVB'ers who waffled and PUBLICLY railed against OC, even temporarily, (are u listening OPS?) thus allowing the Lovero movement to gain momentum, and

d) those non DCOB'ers who tried to sell the old "I'm not voting along party lines, I'm voting for the best INDIVIDUAL, even if they're DCOB" (Bonster, where are you?). That's nice.....hope you're enjoying the likes of Michelle Skryd and Nora Laureto (how many family members do these two have in city unions again?) now...now bend over even further....

The DCOB knew what it was doing all along.

Sit back, enjoy, and concede who the real lemmes are.

Sorry, but I don't follow blindly.  OC deserved the criticism, and it was his behavior not mine which caused problems.

I really want to see a candidate for mayor that DIDN'T grow up here.  Has NOT lived here all their life.  And does not SHIRK responsibility.

[OakParkSpartan]

We may not know the full details of the negotiation until May. All the Alderman get insurance and they have for a very long time. Yes even the coveted Mr. Weiner got insurance. They may not use it but they do get it according to CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS which, once again people, the contracts are up and are being negotiated.

Are we children who can't wait to open our presents? Because that is exactly what we sound like.  

JSlaught,

You are playing fast and loose with the insurance.  I believe Weiner has said numerous times he did not take health insurance from the city, contrary to what you implied above. 

Again, why would we believe what you have said when clearly you are attempting to deceive people?

[The Jackal]

Sorry, but I don't follow blindly.  OC deserved the criticism, and it was his behavior not mine which caused problems.

Yes he did deserve the criticism, but by doing so publicly on a forum like this you unwittingly helped legitimize a Lovero campaign still in its infancy. Sometimes you have to look at the big picture and see the net end result. Lesson learned. Enjoy Lovero and his cronies now.

I really want to see a candidate for mayor that DIDN'T grow up here.  Has NOT lived here all their life.  And does not SHIRK responsibility.

Agreed, but sometimes you have to listen to those that lived here all their lives because they're the only ones that can see it coming.......the State of Berwyn 12/31/09 is the proof in the pudding. Enjoy.

[billyjean]

We may not know the full details of the negotiation until May. All the Alderman get insurance and they have for a very long time. Yes even the coveted Mr. Weiner got insurance. They may not use it but they do get it according to CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS which, once again people, the contracts are up and are being negotiated.

Are we children who can't wait to open our presents? Because that is exactly what we sound like.  

JSlaught,

You are playing fast and loose with the insurance.  I believe Weiner has said numerous times he did not take health insurance from the city, contrary to what you implied above. 

Again, why would we believe what you have said when clearly you are attempting to deceive people?

Not going to mince words here.  I have no problem with ppl taking health insurance if they want it.  What I do expect is that they pay a portion of the premium if they DO take it.  That's all.  For ppl that HAVE a job and HAVE insurance, that is a small concession to keep things in line with what the taxpayers can afford.

Thor is right.  You don't send a newsflash out on 5% and then somehow that turns into 15%.  It amazes me that ppl (parties) do not learn from past mistakes.  This at some point in a campaign will show up on a flyer of the opposition to remind ppl of how things happened.  Tell me the real deal up front.  Don't try to soften it.

Jackal is right too about the unions.  But I do know this.  In a town like Berwyn, it will not be the unionized city workers that will win an election for it's party.  The residents outweigh.  If present admin doesn't start to see the light, next election will be another repeat of what happened when Woodward ran.  You can't stop the collective power of the ppl, I don't care how many ppl you put on the streets.

I have no idea who these unions use for health insurance for the various city workers.  Is it one health insurance company for ALL? or does each have it's own?  Obama's health care reform is forthcoming.  To my understanding (and we talked about this) if you are paying premiums that are OVER what the government deems as the cutoff, I can only assume that the employer will have to pay TAX on the overage.  Again, exactly how that is arrived at leaves room for much discussion.  I'll go with the one put forth by a poster and that it will be taxed on the DIFFERENCE between what the government says is allowable, and what you are actually paying.  That would be for each and every premium.  Since the bill is not even close to passing at this very point in time, it sounds to me like May as the time to work out something with unions is plausable since nobody, not even J. Christ himself, knows what's in that bill.  So that leaves the question:  Can unions ask for the moon when that would result in the City paying federal tax penalities?  That should be interesting.

I've lived here all my life except for some traveling.  That said, I see the same mistakes over and over and over.  Mistakes? or modus operandi?  The key to staying in office is using common sense, putting the City in the black, and having businesses thrive.  Right now, yes, we are in the economic squeeze.  Not just here but everywhere.  All the more reason to begin to use common sense, instead of creating fodder for your opponents to use against you in the future. 

Now if someone can refresh my memory, how is it EXACTLY, that during the time OC was in office we were not able to get ppl to pay into their premiums for health insurance.  Let's start THE MINUTE OC got elected and sworn in.  It should have been precisely at that time that OC should have jumped on that, BEFORE ppl began to jump ship.  I mean hell, you can't get Nona to give up gas keys ? when gas prices were through the roof?  Just turn that chick upside down and shake her till they fall out.

[MRS. NORTHSIDER]

Sorry, but I don't follow blindly.  OC deserved the criticism, and it was his behavior not mine which caused problems.

Yes he did deserve the criticism, but by doing so publicly on a forum like this you unwittingly helped legitimize a Lovero campaign still in its infancy. Sometimes you have to look at the big picture and see the net end result. Lesson learned. Enjoy Lovero and his cronies now.

I really want to see a candidate for mayor that DIDN'T grow up here.  Has NOT lived here all their life.  And does not SHIRK responsibility.

Agreed, but sometimes you have to listen to those that lived here all their lives because they're the only ones that can see it coming.......the State of Berwyn 12/31/09 is the proof in the pudding. Enjoy.

I really hate to keep on beating a dead dog but last I checked you don't even live here in Berwyn but you (and Berwyn Patsy) seem to think you stil live here and can still keep on giving opinions like you do.  Move back or shut up - to put it mildly.

[billyjean]

Sorry, but I don't follow blindly.  OC deserved the criticism, and it was his behavior not mine which caused problems.

Yes he did deserve the criticism, but by doing so publicly on a forum like this you unwittingly helped legitimize a Lovero campaign still in its infancy. Sometimes you have to look at the big picture and see the net end result. Lesson learned. Enjoy Lovero and his cronies now.

I really want to see a candidate for mayor that DIDN'T grow up here.  Has NOT lived here all their life.  And does not SHIRK responsibility.

Agreed, but sometimes you have to listen to those that lived here all their lives because they're the only ones that can see it coming.......the State of Berwyn 12/31/09 is the proof in the pudding. Enjoy.

Jackal I agree with you on the second point you make, however, as to OPS criticizing OC, I think you are wrong.  If he sees something and speaks to it even tho it's not favorable, it lends credibility to OPS.  From my seat, you cannot blindly follow anyone or any party in this town.  You got some ppl on the DCOB side, some on the IVB side, and the rest of us left in the middle.  If you cannot criticize your own then you are not being honest with yourself or with anyone else.  This forum does not lack when push comes to shove in getting out the positions of each party.  I think it's a healthy way to get stuff off your chest, and ppl have a chance to defend when allegations are made.  Any person in a party that cannot criticize it's own, has a long road.  To sit in dumb silence is not a way to be active in your party.  You can actively support, but if you see things that bother you, or that just don't add up, it's up to you to speak up.  Trust me, ppl will admire you for having the balls to do so and bring things out in the open they don't have the balls to address.

[The Jackal]

Sorry, but I don't follow blindly.  OC deserved the criticism, and it was his behavior not mine which caused problems.

Yes he did deserve the criticism, but by doing so publicly on a forum like this you unwittingly helped legitimize a Lovero campaign still in its infancy. Sometimes you have to look at the big picture and see the net end result. Lesson learned. Enjoy Lovero and his cronies now.

I really want to see a candidate for mayor that DIDN'T grow up here.  Has NOT lived here all their life.  And does not SHIRK responsibility.

Agreed, but sometimes you have to listen to those that lived here all their lives because they're the only ones that can see it coming.......the State of Berwyn 12/31/09 is the proof in the pudding. Enjoy.

Jackal I agree with you on the second point you make, however, as to OPS criticizing OC, I think you are wrong.  If he sees something and speaks to it even tho it's not favorable, it lends credibility to OPS.  From my seat, you cannot blindly follow anyone or any party in this town.  You got some ppl on the DCOB side, some on the IVB side, and the rest of us left in the middle.  If you cannot criticize your own then you are not being honest with yourself or with anyone else.  This forum does not lack when push comes to shove in getting out the positions of each party.  I think it's a healthy way to get stuff off your chest, and ppl have a chance to defend when allegations are made.  Any person in a party that cannot criticize it's own, has a long road.  To sit in dumb silence is not a way to be active in your party.  You can actively support, but if you see things that bother you, or that just don't add up, it's up to you to speak up.  Trust me, ppl will admire you for having the balls to do so and bring things out in the open they don't have the balls to address.

billyjean,

Its not a matter of criticizing OC (he deserved it)-it's anticipating the end result of that criticism. Criticizing OC back then helped you get Lovero & Crew now. The only person that couldn't see that coming was Stevie Wonder-and apparently quite a few on btf. Good luck now in unseating Lovero, and enjoy the 15% meatpipe.   

[The Jackal]

I really hate to keep on beating a dead dog but last I checked you don't even live here in Berwyn but you (and Berwyn Patsy) seem to think you stil live here and can still keep on giving opinions like you do.  Move back or shut up - to put it mildly.

Patsy could see it coming also...LOL!!!!

What's the old poker saying?

If you're looking around the table and can't find a sucker, chances are it's YOU.

Enjoy.

[MRS. NORTHSIDER]

I really hate to keep on beating a dead dog but last I checked you don't even live here in Berwyn but you (and Berwyn Patsy) seem to think you stil live here and can still keep on giving opinions like you do.  Move back or shut up - to put it mildly.

Patsy could see it coming also...LOL!!!!

What's the old poker saying?

If you're looking around the table and can't find a sucker, chances are it's YOU.

Enjoy.

Yeah, you're probably right because I still live here and actually still have some degree of hope.  You have moved and still have nothing left to do but obsess over life here in Berwyn - now, that's sad.

[The Jackal]

^^^^^^^

Good luck with all that!

[The Jackal]

Sorry, but I don't follow blindly.  OC deserved the criticism, and it was his behavior not mine which caused problems.

Yes he did deserve the criticism, but by doing so publicly on a forum like this you unwittingly helped legitimize a Lovero campaign still in its infancy. Sometimes you have to look at the big picture and see the net end result. Lesson learned. Enjoy Lovero and his cronies now.

I really want to see a candidate for mayor that DIDN'T grow up here.  Has NOT lived here all their life.  And does not SHIRK responsibility.

Agreed, but sometimes you have to listen to those that lived here all their lives because they're the only ones that can see it coming.......the State of Berwyn 12/31/09 is the proof in the pudding. Enjoy.

Jackal I agree with you on the second point you make

Only now in hindsight when Bobby and his crew shoved the 15% up your rear do you agree...back then, you were all over Bobby as mayoral candidate.

Enjoy him now-you deserve it.

[billyjean]

Sorry, but I don't follow blindly.  OC deserved the criticism, and it was his behavior not mine which caused problems.

Yes he did deserve the criticism, but by doing so publicly on a forum like this you unwittingly helped legitimize a Lovero campaign still in its infancy. Sometimes you have to look at the big picture and see the net end result. Lesson learned. Enjoy Lovero and his cronies now.

I really want to see a candidate for mayor that DIDN'T grow up here.  Has NOT lived here all their life.  And does not SHIRK responsibility.

Agreed, but sometimes you have to listen to those that lived here all their lives because they're the only ones that can see it coming.......the State of Berwyn 12/31/09 is the proof in the pudding. Enjoy.

Jackal I agree with you on the second point you make, however, as to OPS criticizing OC, I think you are wrong.  If he sees something and speaks to it even tho it's not favorable, it lends credibility to OPS.  From my seat, you cannot blindly follow anyone or any party in this town.  You got some ppl on the DCOB side, some on the IVB side, and the rest of us left in the middle.  If you cannot criticize your own then you are not being honest with yourself or with anyone else.  This forum does not lack when push comes to shove in getting out the positions of each party.  I think it's a healthy way to get stuff off your chest, and ppl have a chance to defend when allegations are made.  Any person in a party that cannot criticize it's own, has a long road.  To sit in dumb silence is not a way to be active in your party.  You can actively support, but if you see things that bother you, or that just don't add up, it's up to you to speak up.  Trust me, ppl will admire you for having the balls to do so and bring things out in the open they don't have the balls to address.

billyjean,

Its not a matter of criticizing OC (he deserved it)-it's anticipating the end result of that criticism. Criticizing OC back then helped you get Lovero & Crew now. The only person that couldn't see that coming was Stevie Wonder-and apparently quite a few on btf. Good luck now in unseating Lovero, and enjoy the 15% meatpipe. 

Well, again, I disagree.  OPS was not alone when it came to criticizing OC.  The mayoral spot is the catbird seat.  It was clear to many that OC was not representative of a good leader.  I'm not saying that was OPS opinion, but it was the opinion of many.   No matter how things play out, it is better to get all the cards on the table.  It was up in the air as far as BTF as to how involved OPS was with the IVB.  His comments over time did help establish that he looked more at the problems than at the ppl, but in time, it is hard to avoid who is driving the problems.  OPS is now Treasurer of the IVB, runs this site, and posts.  It is more important than ever that this site remain an impartial way for ppl to voice their concerns and ask questions to find out where the problems are coming from ... no matter where that trail leads.  I would like ALL posters to get off their party butts, and act like a resident FIRST.  Political parties be damned.  There will always be another opponent, another election.  However, all we actually have is division, ppl who otherwise only want the best for Berwyn, but are hamstrung because of party affiliations.  If the IVB could have SAT on OC and gave him what for EARLY ON, that race for mayor might have played out differently.  The IVB was trying to sell a product nobody wanted.  Pure and simple.  So I guess parties in office will flip every election cycle, and Berwyn will be no farther ahead than it is right now.  Until ppl IN THE PARTIES start speaking the truth, and stop sucking up, nothing will change.

If you don't have a sound plan/solutions, don't bother running.  But that's not how it is ... is it?

[MRS. NORTHSIDER]

^^^^^^^

Good luck with all that!

Oh, c'mon, I'm sure there has to be some God-forsaken place in Northwest Indiana that could use a halfway decent lawyer.

[billyjean]

Sorry, but I don't follow blindly.  OC deserved the criticism, and it was his behavior not mine which caused problems.

Yes he did deserve the criticism, but by doing so publicly on a forum like this you unwittingly helped legitimize a Lovero campaign still in its infancy. Sometimes you have to look at the big picture and see the net end result. Lesson learned. Enjoy Lovero and his cronies now.

I really want to see a candidate for mayor that DIDN'T grow up here.  Has NOT lived here all their life.  And does not SHIRK responsibility.

Agreed, but sometimes you have to listen to those that lived here all their lives because they're the only ones that can see it coming.......the State of Berwyn 12/31/09 is the proof in the pudding. Enjoy.

Jackal I agree with you on the second point you make

Only now in hindsight when Bobby and his crew shoved the 15% up your rear do you agree...back then, you were all over Bobby as mayoral candidate.

Enjoy him now-you deserve it.

No, Jackal.  I am not upset by 15%.  I don't like when you put forth 5%, and then at LAST MINUTE ... state 15%.  Tell me 15% right off the bat.  Like I said, the residents will be reminded of that move in some IVB flyer next election.  You can't get in trouble if you tell the truth right off the bat.  Pain of paying 15%? yes.  Of course.  But, if you start telling fibs, then at some point I will lose trust.

Rack em.

[The Jackal]

No matter how things play out, it is better to get all the cards on the table.

No its not, not in Berwyn....you NEVER put all your cards on the table.

It's like calling a bet in poker and seeing your opponent flip over a winning hand. Nine times out of ten you won't show your hand to him cause it might come back to haunt you later.

The "way things played out" was Lovero and his cronies controlling City Council now and for a LONG time in the future...good luck trying to change that. 

So I guess parties in office will flip every election cycle, and Berwyn will be no farther ahead than it is right now.

NO, parties in office will NOT flip every election cycle. It hadn't happened for 36 years before OC was elected (and that was a one time occurrence), why do you think it will happen now?

Bobby and the unions have dug in their heels and are going nowhere-for a LONG time......

[The Jackal]

Sorry, but I don't follow blindly.  OC deserved the criticism, and it was his behavior not mine which caused problems.

Yes he did deserve the criticism, but by doing so publicly on a forum like this you unwittingly helped legitimize a Lovero campaign still in its infancy. Sometimes you have to look at the big picture and see the net end result. Lesson learned. Enjoy Lovero and his cronies now.

I really want to see a candidate for mayor that DIDN'T grow up here.  Has NOT lived here all their life.  And does not SHIRK responsibility.

Agreed, but sometimes you have to listen to those that lived here all their lives because they're the only ones that can see it coming.......the State of Berwyn 12/31/09 is the proof in the pudding. Enjoy.

Jackal I agree with you on the second point you make

Only now in hindsight when Bobby and his crew shoved the 15% up your rear do you agree...back then, you were all over Bobby as mayoral candidate.

Enjoy him now-you deserve it.

No, Jackal.  I am not upset by 15%.  I don't like when you put forth 5%, and then at LAST MINUTE ... state 15%.  Tell me 15% right off the bat.  Like I said, the residents will be reminded of that move in some IVB flyer next election.  You can't get in trouble if you tell the truth right off the bat.  Pain of paying 15%? yes.  Of course.  But, if you start telling fibs, then at some point I will lose trust.

Rack em.

So the only thing that bothers you is the bait and switch?

It doesn't bother you that the city unions have their hand so deep in your pocket you need a crane to extract it, especially at a time like this?