A few good items on tonight's agenda. I won't be able to go, so hopefully some one else will be able to report.
Super Block proposals, lower pool passes, and of course my favorite thing to moan and groan about, locked dumpsters . These are a few of the items to be discussed.
The Gunny Harboe proposal stood out. I personally could live with the 3rd presentation. They changed it from senior housing to condos (I happen to think listening to the community is a good thing...but I also see the point that their proposal keeps changing). The second group that had all the mold worries seemed as though they were out of their league quite frankly.
Cheers,
Brian
Quote from: Berwyn Patsy on December 19, 2006, 06:20:22 PM
A few good items on tonight's agenda. I won't be able to go, so hopefully some one else will be able to report.
Super Block proposals, lower pool passes, and of course my favorite thing to moan and groan about, locked dumpsters . These are a few of the items to be discussed.
Patsy, the superslum i mean superblock is already a locked dumpster isn't it?
Mustang,
Have you bothered to look at the proposals?
I guess an internationally recognized preservation architect really doesn't know what he is doing...glad we have someone from Cicero to set him straight.
Cheers,
Brian
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on December 20, 2006, 09:15:18 AM
Mustang,
Have you bothered to look at the proposals?
I guess an internationally recognized preservation architect really doesn't know what he is doing...glad we have someone from Cicero to set him straight.
Cheers,
Brian
Well Mr sarcastic one there has been over a decade of proposals. And as stated by others in previous topics, proposals are just that, proposals. Like to see some reality on that corner instead of proposals and rhetoric. Actually there are quite a few people in Cicero that could teach you a few things.
Guess I've missed you at the presentations Mustang.
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on December 20, 2006, 11:40:10 AM
Guess I've missed you at the presentations Mustang.
Don't have to be there. Heard and read all about them. Am i impressed with some, yes. But its not the bidders that worry me Brian. Its how long will it take to come to fruition.
It is a huge first step in the redevelopment of Cermak Road. Its also a huge feel good shot in the arm the whole city needs right now. They need to see PROGRESS!!
Quote from: mustang54 on December 20, 2006, 08:14:12 AMPatsy, the superslum i mean superblock is already a locked dumpster isn't it?
I love it when the Cicero guys come over and start taking whacks at our town. What's the Bible verse about the speck of dirt? Perhaps we should all start posting derogatory stuff about Cicero over at the Cicero BB.
Quote from: Melliman on December 21, 2006, 07:34:34 AM
Quote from: mustang54 on December 20, 2006, 08:14:12 AMPatsy, the superslum i mean superblock is already a locked dumpster isn't it?
I love it when the Cicero guys come over and start taking whacks at our town. What's the Bible verse about the speck of dirt? Perhaps we should all start posting derogatory stuff about Cicero over at the Cicero BB.
Everyone who drives by that corner has been takingg whacks at it for over a decade no matter where they live. And for very good reason.I have takin a lot less whacks at Berwyn than a lot of you have taking at what you perceive as the evil empire known as Cicero. Hey if that corner makes you happy and you feel it is what Berwyn stands for, then i think i have a higher opinion of the city than you do.
I'm with Mustang on this one. That damn building's been vacant for 30 years now. Tear the damn thing down. It's not the Taj Mahal.
Before you criticize, check into the history of the Bank building, or maybe you already know. I think the Bank building proposals are moving along at a brisk pace. The City and BDC are meeting their goals.
Terri
Save it. Raze it. (which none of the proposals call for btw...) I don't give a sh*t. Just make it clear to your Alderman or any of the Alderman you see that something/anything needs to happen.
They must vote on this ASAP.
They will. First meeting in January I believe.
The Harboe group has stated they will begin work in roughly 6 months. They will, however, begin to stabilize the bank immediately ie. fix water leaks, tuckpoint, etc. to prevent further damage.
Cheers,
Brian
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on December 21, 2006, 12:09:16 PM
They will. First meeting in January I believe.
That's what I heard too... but would you be surprised if it wasn't voted on? You show alot of confidence, but I know I wouldn't be surprised if personal bullsh*t got in the way again.
That's why I said to make sure the Alderman understand how seriously this is to us. This vote will be a BIG part of their legacy.
Then focus needs to turn to the Sedgewick property.
I think they realize it. At least the ones I've spoken with.
Cheers,
Brian
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on December 21, 2006, 02:16:12 PM
I think they realize it. At least the ones I've spoken with.
Those aren't the ones I'm worried about.
Terri,
On the other thread you mentioned one of the groups offered 3.5 million with no assistance. That's not true.It also sounds like some of the proposals have back up plans if certain things don't materialize. Here we go again!
Before anyone starts construction they will need pre-sales. What happens if they don't have enough to start construction?
Does the property sit again? They change plans? The city does another RFQ?I also didn't answer your question on the last thread about the changing market over the last six years-sorry. My answer is it has changed, the condo market is horrible and will continue to be for awhile.
Jim Stillo
Im with Jim on this one, lots of planning and voodoo accounting only to have the same results, an unsightly barren lot.
The group which offered 3.5 million derived that amount from their proposed sharing of the profits from leasing the commercial space. The city would get 40% of the profits, and at some point, that would equal 3.5 million.
All they were proposing is shifting the risk from their development company to us, the taxpayers of Berwyn. If there were no profits (profits = Income-Expenses, not just the income), the city would receive nothing. Betcha a good accountant can minimize profits.
Cheers,
Brian
Harboe is a class organization, in the highly competitive arena they
work in, you are only as good as your last project. I'm quite sure they will pay their due,
it is in their best interest to make the development nothing short of stellar, and a portfolio
show and tell case study for future clients.
Jim,
If I remember correctly, Gunny Harboe submitted a proposal to rehab the Bank property prior to the city having to purchase the property as a last resort a number of years ago. Were you on the zoning board at that time? Reason I ask is maybe you can shed some light as to why the Harboe Group's proposal was declined.
At this point in time it is safe to say the entire city is in agreement that something, anything be done to combat what has become of a once beautiful building. The Harboe Group has completed outstanding projects in the city of Chicago, I doubt they would accept a job that would compromise their workmanship or integrity.
Brian answered your question about the 3.5 million, thanks Brian.
Terri
Terri,
Never heard or remember this company having any interest in this site. They have also had two other opportunities to present plans through RFQ's sent by the BDC and chose not to. Both Centrum and Applebee's were quality-reputable applicants, accordind to this board from past post's. They chose to do projects and both basically walked away. Why? Wasn't feasible. After the song and dance, the oohing and the wows, they just wouldn't or couldn't take that risk. You want something to happen, start with a single. After a few singles, then go for the home run. The best approach is the one with the least risk's, the one that would start construction immediately, not after two dozen contingencies are met (TIF Funds,State Funds,Variances,Pre-Sales, etc). Obviously, also a project that would be good for the city and generate revenue. My opinion, if the city chooses a mixed use and decides to give the developer funding and the developer starts construction, what happens if it's not successful.The city is stuck with another white elephant.Maybe a four to six story white elephant.
Jim
Applebee's was a viable player coming into the deal. The city was not a viable
salesperson, the Apple group saw that desperation and asked for more and more
because they knew the city would give them any deal to make it happen. They were
owners of five restaurants, not developers, and obviously not too smart in regards to
site selection as a group working independent of corporate. The deal pooched for many
reasons, the main one being they wanted the property for nothing.
This recent call for bids have separated the men from the boys, the group who offered
750k for the property was laughable at both offering and ability to deliver a high quality
project. I applaud the BDC in bringing high quality players to the table, and eliminating the
"gee I can build a condo" line of credit players from the fray. This development is huge
for Berwyn. It is our opportunity to make a statement
Any council member who impedes its fruition will be hung high at noon on said property
by several hundred residents.
And I will bring the tar and feathers for pre-hang warmup.
no picture?
Could one of the reasons the people responding to the RFP is that there is a different staff in place at the BDC? Professionals want to work with professionals.
Cheers,
Brian
Quote from: Bonster on December 21, 2006, 09:51:07 PM
no picture?
No pic...Live wire feed over Comcast, I might make it a pay for view
Quote from: Bear on December 21, 2006, 09:47:48 PM
Applebee's was a viable player coming into the deal. The city was not a viable
salesperson, the Apple group saw that desperation and asked for more and more
because they knew the city would give them any deal to make it happen. They were
owners of five restaurants, not developers, and obviously not too smart in regards to
site selection as a group working independent of corporate. The deal pooched for many
reasons, the main one being they wanted the property for nothing.
This recent call for bids have separated the men from the boys, the group who offered
750k for the property was laughable at both offering and ability to deliver a high quality
project. I applaud the BDC in bringing high quality players to the table, and eliminating the
"gee I can build a condo" line of credit players from the fray. This development is huge
for Berwyn. It is our opportunity to make a statement
Any council member who impedes its fruition will be hung high at noon on said property
by several hundred residents.
And I will bring the tar and feathers for pre-hang warmup.
Bear,
How could the guy who offered $750k be laughable with his offering? If that's the case, is the Harboe project also laughable considering Brain's post about them paying possibly $0.00 to the city?
Don't be so quick to offer praise to the BDC or the City yet. remember there the one's who pushed through the Applebee deal.
They only had four to choose from and recommended three. Hardly a filtering process.In using your analogy, there have been larger MEN on this site then the ones you currently have (Teng, Mid-America, Inland, Centrum), all much larger organizations.
Jim
Come on Jim, only 750 for a block sized parcel in a land locked
community?. What value would you place on an open parcel that size?
Jim,
Harboe's group offered $1 million, no further financial considerations from the city.
Cheers,
Brian
Quote from: Bear on December 23, 2006, 10:46:06 AM
Come on Jim, only 750 for a block sized parcel in a land locked
community?. What value would you place on an open parcel that size?
The x-factor is the bank! No one knows the cost to repair until they start it, It's all assumptions.
So you have $750, $1 mil, and possibly $0. If the guy who offered $750 is out, then you have $1 mil and $0.Sounds like a no brainier except things I discussed before (zoning,market conditions,const. costs,pre-sales, etc.) Value would be based on these factors. So the question is, what type of risk would the city take? In my humble opinion, condo's won't sell at this site. This coming from a guy who has sold more than 1300 properties in Berwyn since 1991. If they agree to it, you watch, that 1 mil offer will change drastically. I've seen it over and over, and so have you - centrum, applebee's, Sedgwick.
Jim
That would be the intent of a contract.
Terri
Maybe I'm confused here, but if an offer is accepted, it thus becomes a binding contract. I would certainly hope that said contract contains a liquidated damages claiuse in case of breach. As such, the City should have some recourse in case of breach.
Or is the offer really not an offer? Are there contingencies in said offer? something doesn't seem right here.
Panther you are right, if the offer is accepted it is a binding contract. I trust the Attorney's will do a fine job of sorting through the mumbo jumbo legalese.
Terri
Quote from: Fejes on December 23, 2006, 03:06:10 PM
Panther you are right, if the offer is accepted it is a binding contract. I trust the Attorney's will do a fine job of sorting through the mumbo jumbo legalese.
Terri
I got a guy...
Quote from: Fejes on December 23, 2006, 02:13:16 PM
That would be the intent of a contract.
Terri
Quote from: P-PANTHER on December 23, 2006, 02:21:29 PM
Maybe I'm confused here, but if an offer is accepted, it thus becomes a binding contract. I would certainly hope that said contract contains a liquidated damages claiuse in case of breach. As such, the City should have some recourse in case of breach.
Or is the offer really not an offer? Are there contingencies in said offer? something doesn't seem right here.
You have no contracts, you have proposals. You rely on your attorney's? What happened with Applebee's agreement? They tied the property up for a year. Maybe you should talk to your city council about damages. How about Centrum? Contracts? Damages?
Wow, maybe you should look into that. What will become of Sedgwick?
Any quality developer will have many contingencies when contracting with a City. Again, the question becomes RISK - will this proposal come to fruition? My answer, not with the way the proposal are being presented. They will be altered. I think I've proven this point over and over.
Jim
Jim,
I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say, but a PROPOSAL is NOT an OFFER and should not be treated as such.
If Applebee's submitted a PROPOSAL, there's nothing that should have "tied" the property up for a year. I would imagine that the City is free to accept numerous proposals from various parties. Once you get to the CONTRACT stage, though, both parties should have recourse in case of breach.
Quote from: P-PANTHER on December 23, 2006, 03:52:11 PM
Jim,
I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say, but a PROPOSAL is NOT an OFFER and should not be treated as such.
If Applebee's submitted a PROPOSAL, there's nothing that should have "tied" the property up for a year. I would imagine that the City is free to accept numerous proposals from various parties. Once you get to the CONTRACT stage, though, both parties should have recourse in case of breach.
Their proposals include an offering price.
I agree, it should not have been tied up but was. That's the question-Applebee's/Centrum, Contracts? Now lets go back to City Council and or City Attorney's? Who screwed Up?
Right Jim, at this point they are proposals until one developer is chosen then the contract issues will begin. But you know that.
You pulled your proposal. Why do you seem to think the City will never get a good deal from anyone else? You should have left your proposal to compete with the others if it was good for the city. Competition is good.
Jim, your opinion of each developer (the Bank, Sedgwick, Centrum) is that they are out to cheat the City or whom ever. I disagree because intent to cheat is a fraud. You state that a quality developer will have contingencies, that's great as long as those contingencies are agreed upon by both parties. Then everyone is happy.
Terri
Jim,
I don't think anyone "screwed up". Applebee's had a change in management which lead to the change in proposal. It is not uncommon for a corporation to rethink a proposal when management has changed.
Terri
QuoteJim, your opinion of each developer (the Bank, Sedgwick, Centrum) is that they are out to cheat the City or whom ever. I disagree because intent to cheat is a fraud. You state that a quality developer will have contingencies, that's great as long as those contingencies are agreed upon by both parties. Then everyone is happy.
I dont believe Jim ever stated or implied that they were out to cheat the city, but that each proposal will be full of contingencies that are to protect the developer and not necessarily protect the city. Its very simple.
and the city can counter with its own contingencies that protect its own interests.
Terri,
Your right, it is fraud, go prove it.That's not the reason Applebee's deal failed, it failed because IT WASN' FEASIBLE.
Proposal? You mean there was never a contract? Do you have answer's for Centrum and Segewick, or could we sue them for fraud?
Come On Terri, get real. Maybe I'm just way to synical and these past developers PROPOSALS (again for the upteenth time-segwick/centrum) was a dream of ours.How about the guys who told the city they would build 140 condo's on 35th/Ridgland and then immediately after advertised the property for sale with ZONING. Is this also fraud? See. I'm an honest businessman, when I say I'm gonna do something I put up and tell everyone exactly what I'll be doing. I don't cut corners or bullshit and IT ALWAYS GETS DONE THE WAY I CONTRACTED, PROPOSED, AGREED UPON. Your going to tell me, with the history of the city's negotiation on development you feel good. They city failed, both administrations.
Jim
Terri,
Sorry, I pulled out for the reasons I stated on another post.
Jim
Jim,
The easiest thing in the world to do is prove something memorialized in writing. Piece of cake.
Panther,
Not sure what you mean?
Also, can't go on, your killing me.
Folks - I'm not a full blown attorney, but I do have some law school under my belt. Real Estate Contracts have a contingency clause for inspection of the property. I am 99% sure that is the clause that Applebee's used to pull out of the deal w/ no damages. Upon inspection of the property, they realized the cost to rehab/restore it was going to be much more than originally anticipated. The next contract will also have such clause - and I believe upon inspection, we will see any offer that was contained in a proposal decrease drastically.
Just my 2 cents.
Denise
Quote from: delbowz on December 24, 2006, 07:56:40 AM
Folks - I'm not a full blown attorney, but I do have some law school under my belt. Real Estate Contracts have a contingency clause for inspection of the property. I am 99% sure that is the clause that Applebee's used to pull out of the deal w/ no damages. Upon inspection of the property, they realized the cost to rehab/restore it was going to be much more than originally anticipated. The next contract will also have such clause - and I believe upon inspection, we will see any offer that was contained in a proposal decrease drastically.
Just my 2 cents.
Denise
You can actually right in any contingency you want in a contract. The question is will the other party sign it.
Denise,
The party's have all been through the bank, and have received a structural engineering report.
From what I have read (the structural report and the mold report) and heard the architects speak about, there are problems, but none that aren't correctable (a leaking roof, tuckpointing, repairing part of the facade, remediating mold which was caused by the leaking roof).
Cheers,
Brian
Denise,
I don't think there ever was a concrete offer anyway. Simply a proposal. I don't think it got as far as you stated.
Quote from: delbowz on December 24, 2006, 07:56:40 AM
Folks - I'm not a full blown attorney, but I do have some law school under my belt.
Come on, admit it. You slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night.