Dickie Peterson R.I.P.

[scungili]

Dickie Peterson, the bassist/vocalist and founding member of BLUE CHEER, passed away yesterday at 5 a.m. in Germany.  I remember the first time I heard their version of Summertime Blues ... "Holy Crap!" I said, "This is one of the most thunderous songs ever!".  Here's video of Summertime Blues from their debut (and best IMO) record Vincebus Eruptum.

http://www.youtube.com/v/nU5uDozoSSM&hl=en&fs=1&

[BRoWN]

Blue Cheer could very well be the band that really invented "heavy metal"....and  not Black Sabbath 

[Bonster]

I remember the first time I heard their version of Summertime Blues ... "Holy Crap!" I said, "This is one of the most thunderous songs ever!". 

I remember the first time I listened to their version of Summertime Blues. ... "Holy Crap!" I said, "This is one of the most thunderous songs ever!".

As a fan of the Who's (Live at Leeds) version, I had dismissed it as a cartoon-y-ish song from the 60s.
Then one day in the car with it turned up a bit it blew me away.  Such a heavy sound.

[scungili]

Blue Cheer could very well be the band that really invented "heavy metal"....and  not Black Sabbath 

And so it begins!

The "Who started metal" debate is gonna go on forever. This anthropologist/metalhead did an enjoyable documentary where he "tree's out" Metal in all its forms from the beginning where he cites Sabbath as the originator.  If you have the time, here's the first in a series of youtube vids of the movie.

Personally ... I dunno, it's tough to choose between the two.  And if you throw in Zeppelin (like alotta folks do) it just muddies the soup more.  If I was forced to choose one I'd have to go w/ Sabbath for the gloom-n-doom in their lyrics.

[scungili]

The Who's version from Live at Leeds rocks!  But it ain't as heavy as Blue Cheer's version.

[BRoWN]

Blue Cheer predates Sabbath and Zep and BCs lyrics (even then) were gloom and doom.  Sabbath evolved from a band called Earth. Earth covered BLue Cheer tunes.

[mustang54]

  To muddy it up even more I would throw Cream into the mix. Or the Yardbirds.

[BRoWN]

  To muddy it up even more I would throw Cream into the mix.

Yep.  Earth covered Cream too.  So...Sabbath has fell to third? Jethro Tull (also predate SAB) was once awarded a metal award....lol  Sabbath now fourth in line?

[mustang54]

  To muddy it up even more I would throw Cream into the mix.

Yep.  Earth covered Cream too.  So...Sabbath has fell to third? Jethro Tull (also predate SAB) was once awarded a metal award....lol  Sabbath now fourth in line?

Your good Brownie keep goin! LOL. Zep and Tull together at the old Kinetic Playground!

[mustang54]

  Growing up in the 60's the Beatles made alot of us want to be in a band. But the group and the tune that really made us drive our parents nuts for a guitar could have been considered early metal. The Kinks All Day And All Of The Night.

[BRoWN]

HUMBLE Pie predates SAB ...."30 days in the hole" is a gloomy song title. Ted Nugent and the Amboy Dukes were heavy.....whatever heavy means.

[mustang54]

HUMBLE Pie predates SAB ...."30 days in the hole" is a gloomy song title. Ted Nugent and the Amboy Dukes were heavy.....whatever heavy means.

"I Don't Need No Doctor" is one of my all time favorites!Live at the Fillmore!

[mustang54]

  Vanilla Fudge anyone? Iron Butterfly!

[BRoWN]

  Vanilla Fudge anyone? Iron Butterfly!

Vanilla Fudge drummer Carmine Appice is innovator of the dbl kick drumming that is prominent in heavy metal. His little brother Vinnie drummed for Sabbath Dio era. Ah....its all making sense now.....Sabbah did NOT originate metal.

[Bonster]

But the group and the tune that really made us drive our parents nuts for a guitar could have been considered early metal. The Kinks All Day And All Of The Night.

+1!!!!!!!!
If not metal, they were at least early punk!  I think I played that in my first band.




I wouldn't say Sabbath invented metal, per Se, but kicked off dark/black metal as we know it today. 

[BRoWN]

But the group and the tune that really made us drive our parents nuts for a guitar could have been considered early metal. The Kinks All Day And All Of The Night.

+1!!!!!!!!
If not metal, they were at least early punk!  I think I played that in my first band.




I wouldn't say Sabbath invented metal, per Se, but kicked off dark/black metal as we know it today.  

I'm not sure which color metal Sabbath kicked off. I think they may have kicked off "Biting the head off a live animal metal"

[BRoWN]

But the group and the tune that really made us drive our parents nuts for a guitar could have been considered early metal. The Kinks All Day And All Of The Night.

+1!!!!!!!!
If not metal, they were at least early punk!  I think I played that in my first band.




I wouldn't say Sabbath invented metal, per Se, but kicked off dark/black metal as we know it today. 

you sure? That may have been Hendrix or Thin Lizzy

[scungili]

I think there's a difference between heavy metal & hard rock.  Alot of the other bands mentioned I consider hard rock bands or psychedelic bands.

Blue Cheer was definitely heavy sounding and started up a couple years before Sabbath, but to me they were more of a bluesy hard rock band with psychedelic tendencies.  It's been a while since i've listened to the B.C. albums I have, but lyrically (on their originals) they are the woes of being a young man "blues type" lyrics with occassional acid trip inspired songs.  More songs than not had a boogie groove to 'em, granted it was distorted & bombastic, but it was still a boogie.  It's that boogie that makes me hear less metal.

Like the MC5 could be heavy as all get out but they had a different vibe goin' on.  A few things plodded, some stuff was trippy, but then there was that blues boogie and a frenzied energy that they emitted.  Even in the early years when they were covering tunes like "I can only give you everything" or "baby please don't go" - they played them with an energy that was more driving than heavy.

I've even read that the Stooges get credited for early metal but I don't hear it.  Sure, Asheton's guitar might have howled like a sheet of metal being ground down, but the Stooges were more rudimentary & simply "in your face".  Plus there was no utterance of wizards, demons, satan, etc etc.

Sabbath on the other hand had some boogie goin' on but more so a surging rocking rhythm ... the type of groove that inspires head banging.  I'm not saying headbanging is the determining factor in what is heavy metal ... I'm saying Sabbath had more of that in their repertoire than other bands at the time.  Sabbath dipped into the occult lyric-wise.  Although I'm not sure about this, but didn't they drop-tune to get a fatter darker sound?

Sabbath was more sinister and maybe Bonster summed it up earlier that Sabbath might be the originator of black metal.

And as this thread continues, you know there's someone out there with an LP from some unknown band from '65 (or earlier) that's heavier than anything posted here.

As far as The Kinks go, not everything was, but they leaned more punk than metal in my opinion.  Like with "All Day ..." the straight forward beat, the cockey lyric delivery, the raunchy guitar tone, there's a solo but it's not drawn out - it's 2.5 minutes of youthful energy.

[scungili]

you sure? That may have been Hendrix or Thin Lizzy

[Bonster]

Sabbath dipped into the occult lyric-wise.  Although I'm not sure about this, but didn't they drop-tune to get a fatter darker sound?

Sabbath was more sinister and maybe Bonster summed it up earlier that Sabbath might be the originator of black metal.

The dark or black metal are ones which get into various forms of... evil.  Black metal was coined in the 80s to describe bands that were all out Satanic, lyrically, i.e. Mercyful Fate, Venom, Slayer, et al.   

And yes, Sabbath did drop tune eventually.  Vol. 4 has some extremely low tuning ... Listen to the first few chords of Under The Sun, for example! 

As far as The Kinks go, not everything was, but they leaned more punk than metal in my opinion.  Like with "All Day ..." the straight forward beat, the cockey lyric delivery, the raunchy guitar tone, there's a solo but it's not drawn out - it's 2.5 minutes of youthful energy.

Yep, and live they played it at like double speed...totally punk:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2lcsVIYiio