Rose's thorn

[Ted]

  This is why the NCAA ought to just let colleges pay players.  Both college football and college basketball have become semi-professional sports yet the players get nothing. 

  Just like tennis and the Olympics eventually realized that it is OK to pay athletes, so should the NCAA:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/chi-calipari-rose-paid-100000-to-dismiss-lawsuit-report-20111007,0,7339214.story?obref=obnetwork 
 
  Calipari, Rose paid $100,000 to dismiss lawsuit: Report

By K.C. Johnson, Tribune reporter
3:50 p.m. CDT,
October 7, 2011
 
   John Calipari and Derrick Rose agreed in May 2010 to pay $100,000 to dismiss a potential lawsuit stemming from the Memphis Tigers' 2007-08 season that ended with a loss to Kansas in the NCAA title game, according to a report in the Memphis Commercial Appeal. Victories from that season were vacated by the NCAA when it was ruled Memphis used an ineligible player.

Calipari, who left Memphis for Kentucky in May 2009, and Rose, who became the Bulls' No. 1 overall pick following his lone season at Memphis, paid the sum after three attorneys representing "certain ticket holders" threatened to sue that their season-tickets were devalued or purchased under false pretenses because of the NCAA punishment. The Commercial Appeal obtained a copy of the agreement under Tennessee's open records law.

The report stated Calipari will pay $232,000 over four years. Beyond his $100,000 payment, Rose is expected to consider making a donation to the school's scholarship fund before 2015.

[OakParkSpartan]

No, the NCAA should sanction coaches like Calipari and not solely the schools.

[Ted]

 The underlying premise (that students should not be paid for participating in sports that make mega-billiions) is the cause of the problem.

  If you allowed universities to pay students who participate  in multi-billion dollars sports (such as football or basketball), you would not have any of these problems.

[OakParkSpartan]

The underlying premise (that students should not be paid for participating in sports that make mega-billiions) is the cause of the problem.

  If you allowed universities to pay students who participate  in multi-billion dollars sports (such as football or basketball), you would not have any of these problems.

They do get something called a free education...that is worth a significant amount of money.  If they want to be paid, go play in Europe.

[The Jackal]

Huh?

Balance the $$$$ value of a 4 year college education versus the MILLIONS some of these kids bring in to some of these universities...it's an absolute JOKE, a travesty.

But you're right OPS, next time a Derrick Rose comes out of high school, I want him to go play for CSSKA Moscow or Olympiakos Piraeus instead of U of Memphis. Or maybe next time the Illinois gridirons produce a Simeon Rice, I'd like to see him go to the Saskatchewan Roughriders instead of Illinois. I have NO PROBLEM with either scenario. Wonder if the NCAA would? LOL!!!!!! 

[OakParkSpartan]

Huh?

Balance the $$$$ value of a 4 year college education versus the MILLIONS some of these kids bring in to some of these universities...it's an absolute JOKE, a travesty.

But you're right OPS, next time a Derrick Rose comes out of high school, I want him to go play for CSSKA Moscow or Olympiakos Piraeus instead of U of Memphis. Or maybe next time the Illinois gridirons produce a Simeon Rice, I'd like to see him go to the Saskatchewan Roughriders instead of Illinois. I have NO PROBLEM with either scenario. Wonder if the NCAA would? LOL!!!!!!

There was that one kid that went to play in Italy.  I think he ended up getting drafted.

Remember that the revenue sports also support hundreds if not thousands of other kids playing things like Soccer, Lacrosse, wrestling, women's basketball, gymnastics, volleyball, baseball, golf, hockey...there are more.

[The Jackal]

^^^^^

EXACTLY.

And without the Derrick Rose's of the world, there are no $$$$ to support "non revenue producing sports"...or multi million dollar contracts for the assorted flesh peddlers known as college coaches.

[Ted]

Remember that the revenue sports also support hundreds if not thousands of other kids playing things like Soccer, Lacrosse, wrestling, women's basketball, gymnastics, volleyball, baseball, golf, hockey...there are more.

I think you could pay the kids who participate in the revenue producing sports and still bring in money for the other sports.

Another idea is this - Allow kids to play without attending the college. For the kids who participate in football and basketball, pay those kids the cash amount of their tuition and room & board.   Then the kid can decide whether to spend it on college or keep the money.

  For football, that would cause universities a huge cash flow problem (to the tune of millions of dollars) - Right now, scholarships are funny money.  If the universities actually gave these students the cash equivalent of their scholarships and gave kids the option of attending or not attending college, it would be interesting to see what happens in the big name colleges for those athletes who attend college only to play in sports.

[OakParkSpartan]

Remember that the revenue sports also support hundreds if not thousands of other kids playing things like Soccer, Lacrosse, wrestling, women's basketball, gymnastics, volleyball, baseball, golf, hockey...there are more.

I think you could pay the kids who participate in the revenue producing sports and still bring in money for the other sports.

Another idea is this - Allow kids to play without attending the college. For the kids who participate in football and basketball, pay those kids the cash amount of their tuition and room & board.   Then the kid can decide whether to spend it on college or keep the money.

  For football, that would cause universities a huge cash flow problem (to the tune of millions of dollars) - Right now, scholarships are funny money.  If the universities actually gave these students the cash equivalent of their scholarships and gave kids the option of attending or not attending college, it would be interesting to see what happens in the big name colleges for those athletes who attend college only to play in sports.

So you would have colleges become professional teams?

That is one of the most ridiculous, short sighted proposals I've ever seen about the topic.  Pay the kids, take away from the athletic department budget...for what?  Remember, it is COLLEGIATE athletics, not free-lance athletics.

[The Jackal]

NO...NCAA sports are not COLLEGIATE athletics, they're a multi billion dollar business cloaked in academia...with college athletes as its pawns.

And NO.....Ted's proposal is NOT short sighted at all.

Very practical.

If the athletic depts of respective schools want to genrate revenue, let them do so without some of these BLUE CHIP athletes that bring in the $$$$$.

In what other country in the world do universities serve as professional sports training grounds? NONE.

You want to fix the problem?

Abolish intercollegiate sports.

Very simple.

Every other country in the world survives without college sports, why can't we?

The answer lies in the fact that so many schools, coaches, networks and NCAA fatcats are making a killing off these kids...and the pro franchises have ready made farm systems without having to spend a red cent for them.

[mustang54]

  Jackal is right on the money. When schools get caught the only ones made out to be the bad guys are the only ones not getting paid, the athletes. The Caliparis', and the Pitinos' leave the schools and move on to another high paying job to do it all over again. The school gets a slap on the wrist while the athletes catch the brunt of the media spin on what bad and corrupt kids they are and its their fault for taking things. It doesn't matter that most of them can't afford a happy meal as long as they perform so the adults, the so called educators make their millions. It's a bullshit system and should be ended. Make the NBA and NFL start their own minor league systems.

[Ted]

So you would have colleges become professional teams?

Yes, or at least semi-professional.  If these coaches are making millions and the universities are collectively making billions, then yes, it already is professional.

That is one of the most ridiculous, short sighted proposals I've ever seen about the topic.  Pay the kids, take away from the athletic department budget...for what?  Remember, it is COLLEGIATE athletics, not free-lance athletics.

  So what if it's collegiate?  This is the same argument that was being made against paying Olympic athletes and the same argument made against paying tennis players in the 50s and 60s - the argument that sports is some b.s. idealist endevour and people who participate shouldn't get paid.

  Look at the Olympics in the 60s and 70s - you don't think those athletes were getting paid under the table to participate?  Baloney.

  The Olympics and tennis were big time business by the 60s, pulling in a lot of revenue.  It was a charade to assume the idealism of amateur sports.

  College football and basketball are at the same point that the Olympics were at in the 70s.

  Heck, even Bobby Knight agrees with me that student athletes should receive some type of stipend.

[OakParkSpartan]

You didn't say stipend, you say pay them, just like professionals.

None of you have addressed the impact that would have on the non-revenue sports.  It would be devastating.  And, I don't know that you could just pay FB players, as that would likely run afoul of some equal opportunity law (Title IX?).

[Ted]

You didn't say stipend, you say pay them, just like professionals.

None of you have addressed the impact that would have on the non-revenue sports.  It would be devastating.  And, I don't know that you could just pay FB players, as that would likely run afoul of some equal opportunity law (Title IX?).

  A stipend is a payment - what do you think they're paying them for?

Why would the effect on non-revenue sports be devastating?  If you paid the athletes the cash value of the scholarship and let them have the choice if using it or not using it, how could that in any way affect athletes in non-revenue sports?

  And, I don't understand why paying FB players would run afoul of Title IX.  You're not denying scholarships in other sports.

It's time to end the charade - especially since college football and basketball are now billion dollar industries.

[OakParkSpartan]

So cash value of the scholarship...say $40k per year for tuition, Room and Board, training table etc.  $40k x 100 (85 + redshirts) = $4m/year out of the athletic department budget (and you'd need to then also figure in social security etc).

At Michigan State, you have just eliminated several of the following Men's sports:  Baseball, Golf, Soccer, Swimming, Tennis, Track/Cross Country, Wrestling.  Or you have eliminated some of the following women's sports:  Basketball, Crew, Field Hockey, Golf, Gymnastics, Soccer, Softball, Swimming, Tennis, Track/Cross Country, Volleyball.

Non-Revenue Men's budget is 3.2M, Women's 9.4M per year.  Not sure how you justify paying one set of athletes but not the other. 

[Ted]

  One set is producing revenue and the other set is not.

  Give the cash equivalent to all athletes and let all athletes decide if they want to use it for school.

[The Jackal]

So cash value of the scholarship...say $40k per year for tuition, Room and Board, training table etc.  $40k x 100 (85 + redshirts) = $4m/year out of the athletic department budget (and you'd need to then also figure in social security etc).

I would imagine 4M could be trimmed from a salary like lets say, OH, I don't know, Mike Krzyszewski or Rick Pitino. Probably the overpriced AD too, along with his assistant. If you think there's nowhere to trim 4M off big time NCAA D1 schools budget (without cutting out non revenue producing sports), you're living in LA LA land.

The $$$$ are going EVERYWHERE but into the pockets of the kids most responsible for bringing such revenue in in the first place.

Lets cut the charade.......big time collegiate sports are professional ventures...no worse than high level minor league sports.

Non-Revenue Men's budget is 3.2M, Women's 9.4M per year.  Not sure how you justify paying one set of athletes but not the other.

I'm paying the kids most responsible for bringing in the revenue. I'm paying guys like Derrick Rose and Quentin Richardson. I'm NOT paying a non descript mens water polo player or female golfer. Very simple.

[OakParkSpartan]

So you discriminate?

[The Jackal]

No...I'm distributing based on MERIT. Novel concept, heh?

[OakParkSpartan]

No...I'm distributing based on MERIT. Novel concept, heh?

Not novel, but misapplied in this case.