http://www.mysuburbanlife.com/2014/03/26/deportation-protest-marchers-coming-to-cicero-berwyn-april-7/a70uxxv/ (http://www.mysuburbanlife.com/2014/03/26/deportation-protest-marchers-coming-to-cicero-berwyn-april-7/a70uxxv/)
Looks like they will be hitting the area during rush hour on Friday
I wonder if they are protesting the over 68,000 illegals who commited crimes last year and were waiting deportation but were released. Nah probably not.
Lets hope it rains!!!!!
Because I am going fishing and always catch fish in the rain.
Good answer senator
Quote from: berwyn senator on March 31, 2014, 07:02:45 PM
Because I am going fishing and always catch fish in the rain.
It was a serious question, senator. What's your problem with the march?
Quote from: markberwyn on March 31, 2014, 09:57:38 PM
Quote from: berwyn senator on March 31, 2014, 07:02:45 PM
Because I am going fishing and always catch fish in the rain.
It was a serious question, senator. What's your problem with the march?
He's hoping it gets postponed because he wanted to join them, but he's going fishing.
I thought I heard sirens and screeching tires last night. It was the PC Police! Now let's see if the Senator gets Tazed again. Grabbing popcorn.
From the article:
"Artemio Arreola, political director for the Illinois Coalition for Immigrant and Refugee Rights"
But, where's the coalition for Illegal Immigrants rights? Why aren't they involved ?
Quote from: Good Time Charlie on April 01, 2014, 08:52:46 AM
I thought I heard sirens and screeching tires last night. It was the PC Police! Now let's see if the Senator gets Tazed again. Grabbing popcorn.
Is it OK for him to say he hopes the protest doesn't happen without explaining his reasoning?
I don't know. I just want to see if he gets tazed. I'm sure his unsuitable explanation is forthcoming.
Quote from: markberwyn on April 01, 2014, 09:16:11 AM
Quote from: Good Time Charlie on April 01, 2014, 08:52:46 AM
I thought I heard sirens and screeching tires last night. It was the PC Police! Now let's see if the Senator gets Tazed again. Grabbing popcorn.
Is it OK for him to say he hopes the protest doesn't happen without explaining his reasoning?
I think the obvious answer is that he is against the march!
Moose I am proud of you! Didn't take much to figure that out did it? I guess for some the simplest thing can be most difficult,just takes common sense.
Quote from: berwyn senator on April 01, 2014, 10:17:38 AM
Moose I am proud of you! Didn't take much to figure that out did it? I guess for some the simplest thing can be most difficult,just takes common sense.
I wasn't confused about whether you had a problem with the march. I just wanted to know why you have a problem with it.
Immigration rights is a complicated topic, and I haven't settled my thinking about it. So I'm interested in hearing from people who seem assured in their thinking---so assured that they believe that a protest march simply has no business happening.
My concern is these marches bring a possibility of innocent people getting hurt,they do have a tendency of attracting some of the most radical individuals.Berwyn does not need this type of publicity.
Often wrong, never unsure.
How about! never wrong ,never unsure!!
Quote from: markberwyn on April 01, 2014, 10:28:34 AM
Quote from: berwyn senator on April 01, 2014, 10:17:38 AM
Moose I am proud of you! Didn't take much to figure that out did it? I guess for some the simplest thing can be most difficult,just takes common sense.
I wasn't confused about whether you had a problem with the march. I just wanted to know why you have a problem with it.
Immigration rights is a complicated topic, and I haven't settled my thinking about it. So I'm interested in hearing from people who seem assured in their thinking---so assured that they believe that a protest march simply has no business happening.
It's not complicated at all. The law is the law and should be obeyed or they throw your ass out of here. Filling our schools,our jails, and our emergency rooms and letting honest tax payers pay for it all is bullshit and has gone on long enough. ENFORCE THE DAMN LAWS! ILLEGAL MEANS ILLEGAL. The only thing making it complicated is the talk of reform by democrats around every election. Immigration reform is used just like education to get votes from the partisan fools who have listened to and believed this shit for decades. It also comes up to cover up things like Benghazi,the NSA, The IRS, and Obama Care.
Do immigration laws need to be changed, probably it takes way to long for those who want to lead productive lifes here. But if your now here illegally they must be made to leave NOW.
Mustang54 I give you credit saying what many are thinking.During my life time I have witnessed many,many marches,both large and small,inciting the opposite side,causing injuries and arrests.How do we stop them?The best is to ignore them!! Politicians fear them!
Senator this country is in bad shape because of the stupidity of its people. Partisan politics has ripped this country to shreds. People MUST vote out every incumbent in Washington to show we are tired of the games they play on us, and with our money to fatten their pockets and the pockets of Friends and relatives. The Obama administration will go down in history as the worst administration of all time. He has become chief clusterfuck. He is lost. He surrounds himself with ass kissers who know even less. Blames anyone and everyone for HIS mistakes. It is the administration of lies and incompetence. What makes it worse he has divided this country like no one before him and the media won't touch him because of the color of his skin. They are deathly afraid of being pegged as racists by him and everyone who supports him. And for the record I voted for him the first time. He turned out to be a typical democrat from Chicago,Illinois.
Quote from: berwyn senator on April 01, 2014, 10:37:43 AM
My concern is these marches bring a possibility of innocent people getting hurt,they do have a tendency of attracting some of the most radical individuals.Berwyn does not need this type of publicity.
Tell me about the last time innocent people were hurt at a protest march.
Quote from: markberwyn on April 01, 2014, 11:13:22 AM
Quote from: berwyn senator on April 01, 2014, 10:37:43 AM
My concern is these marches bring a possibility of innocent people getting hurt,they do have a tendency of attracting some of the most radical individuals.Berwyn does not need this type of publicity.
Tell me about the last time innocent people were hurt at a protest march.
Yesterday in New Mexico.
Quote from: markberwyn on April 01, 2014, 11:13:22 AM
Quote from: berwyn senator on April 01, 2014, 10:37:43 AM
My concern is these marches bring a possibility of innocent people getting hurt,they do have a tendency of attracting some of the most radical individuals.Berwyn does not need this type of publicity.
Tell me about the last time innocent people were hurt at a protest march.
Daily in Ukraine.
Quote from: mustang54 on April 01, 2014, 10:48:59 AM
Quote from: markberwyn on April 01, 2014, 10:28:34 AM
Quote from: berwyn senator on April 01, 2014, 10:17:38 AM
Moose I am proud of you! Didn't take much to figure that out did it? I guess for some the simplest thing can be most difficult,just takes common sense.
I wasn't confused about whether you had a problem with the march. I just wanted to know why you have a problem with it.
Immigration rights is a complicated topic, and I haven't settled my thinking about it. So I'm interested in hearing from people who seem assured in their thinking---so assured that they believe that a protest march simply has no business happening.
It's not complicated at all. The law is the law and should be obeyed or they throw your ass out of here. Filling our schools,our jails, and our emergency rooms and letting honest tax payers pay for it all is bullshit and has gone on long enough. ENFORCE THE DAMN LAWS! ILLEGAL MEANS ILLEGAL. The only thing making it complicated is the talk of reform by democrats around every election. Immigration reform is used just like education to get votes from the partisan fools who have listened to and believed this shit for decades. It also comes up to cover up things like Benghazi,the NSA, The IRS, and Obama Care.
Do immigration laws need to be changed, probably it takes way to long for those who want to lead productive lifes here. But if your now here illegally they must be made to leave NOW.
How does American society benefit by removing all people who are here illegally right away?
I seem to recall that President George W. Bush had an immigration reform proposal, so I think it's simply wrong to say that only Democrats talk about reform. What was President Bush trying to cover up in bringing up immigration reform?
Come to think of it, mustang, you yourself said we "probably" need immigration reform. What are you covering up?
Quote from: mustang54 on April 01, 2014, 11:20:47 AM
Quote from: markberwyn on April 01, 2014, 11:13:22 AM
Quote from: berwyn senator on April 01, 2014, 10:37:43 AM
My concern is these marches bring a possibility of innocent people getting hurt,they do have a tendency of attracting some of the most radical individuals.Berwyn does not need this type of publicity.
Tell me about the last time innocent people were hurt at a protest march.
Daily in Ukraine.
Ah, yes, I can see how this is equivalent to a march in Cicero. Thanks.
Quote from: markberwyn on April 01, 2014, 11:22:20 AM
Quote from: mustang54 on April 01, 2014, 11:20:47 AM
Quote from: markberwyn on April 01, 2014, 11:13:22 AM
Quote from: berwyn senator on April 01, 2014, 10:37:43 AM
My concern is these marches bring a possibility of innocent people getting hurt,they do have a tendency of attracting some of the most radical individuals.Berwyn does not need this type of publicity.
Tell me about the last time innocent people were hurt at a protest march.
Daily in Ukraine.
Ah, yes, I can see how this is equivalent to a march in Cicero. Thanks.
Read you question back to yourself. You got your answers. You asked where,I gave you two expamples. Want one more the NATO summit in Chicago, close enough? Now go find a life in D.C instead of trolling here with your dumb ass questions and trying to play your mind games with people.
Quote from: mustang54 on April 01, 2014, 11:30:42 AM
Quote from: markberwyn on April 01, 2014, 11:22:20 AM
Quote from: mustang54 on April 01, 2014, 11:20:47 AM
Quote from: markberwyn on April 01, 2014, 11:13:22 AM
Quote from: berwyn senator on April 01, 2014, 10:37:43 AM
My concern is these marches bring a possibility of innocent people getting hurt,they do have a tendency of attracting some of the most radical individuals.Berwyn does not need this type of publicity.
Tell me about the last time innocent people were hurt at a protest march.
Daily in Ukraine.
Ah, yes, I can see how this is equivalent to a march in Cicero. Thanks.
Read you question back to yourself. You got your answers. You asked where,I gave you two expamples. Want one more the NATO summit in Chicago, close enough? Now go find a life in D.C instead of trolling here with your dumb ass questions and trying to play your mind games with people.
Should all protests be banned, mustang? If not, what do you feel is the appropriate standard for holding a protest?
No I don't think they should be banned at all. I actually don't think you can ban them because of a piece of paper we are supposed to live by. Now if officials can show cause for people being endangered by a demonstration I would say yes but their evidence would have to be quite over whelming. Well organized,well attended marches can actually have a very positive affect on the dummies who make our laws. At least they used to. If it wasn't for protests and their success Michael Jordan may have been sitting in the back of the Bulls team bus.
What do we need here bedtime stories? Watch the news,read the papers.
Why Berwyn and Cicero?
Quote from: berwyn senator on April 01, 2014, 12:18:52 PM
Why Berwyn and Cicero?
Ahh now theres a very good question. Answer is easy. They do it here because of the large amount of Latinos who live here. Hispanic leaders come here to try and use these people to get their message across. What they don't understand is alot of Hispanics are also against illegals being allowed to stay here. They can't pick up marchers along the way in Elmhurst or Oak Brook. What they under estimate though is how smart the vast majority of people living here really are. They don't allow themselves to be used and see through the political charade by the politicans who try to use them in front of the cameras to promote themselves. They could give a shit about reform the system has worked just fine for them and they really don't want to risk changing it.
Sounds good to me!
Quote from: mustang54 on April 01, 2014, 12:27:50 PM
Quote from: berwyn senator on April 01, 2014, 12:18:52 PM
Why Berwyn and Cicero?
Ahh now theres a very good question. Answer is easy. They do it here because of the large amount of Latinos who live here. Hispanic leaders come here to try and use these people to get their message across. What they don't understand is alot of Hispanics are also against illegals being allowed to stay here. They can't pick up marchers along the way in Elmhurst or Oak Brook. What they under estimate though is how smart the vast majority of people living here really are. They don't allow themselves to be used and see through the political charade by the politicans who try to use them in front of the cameras to promote themselves. They could give a shit about reform the system has worked just fine for them and they really don't want to risk changing it.
How has the system worked "just fine for them" if there are mass deportations---which the march is protesting?
Quote from: markberwyn on April 01, 2014, 01:06:54 PM
Quote from: mustang54 on April 01, 2014, 12:27:50 PM
Quote from: berwyn senator on April 01, 2014, 12:18:52 PM
Why Berwyn and Cicero?
Ahh now theres a very good question. Answer is easy. They do it here because of the large amount of Latinos who live here. Hispanic leaders come here to try and use these people to get their message across. What they don't understand is alot of Hispanics are also against illegals being allowed to stay here. They can't pick up marchers along the way in Elmhurst or Oak Brook. What they under estimate though is how smart the vast majority of people living here really are. They don't allow themselves to be used and see through the political charade by the politicans who try to use them in front of the cameras to promote themselves. They could give a shit about reform the system has worked just fine for them and they really don't want to risk changing it.
How has the system worked "just fine for them" if there are mass deportations---which the march is protesting?
Mark it is working fine for the politicians who wish to use the people. Like Luis Guitierrez, or Dick Head Durbin. Those two are the poster children for why we need term limits.
Thank you Mustang 54 for speaking up! If our government was doing the job that they were supposed to do according to the law, we would not be in this predicament with all of these ILLEGAL aliens. Why is the law bent for them? Many are waiting to get in legally and they should be our first priority. Enough is enough! Why should we give the time of day to people who continually want to screw the law and us? Screw the march. Take care of your business legally!
Has anyone ever visited a social security office recently?
Dick Head Durban!! I love it!! Louis Guitierrez another no good bastard.
Why don't they follow the legal immigration policy? I've got numerous friends here who came over and became citizens, none of them broke the law to get here and then expected to get a free pass.
QuoteHas anyone ever visited a social security office recently?
Everything can be done online.
Quote from: Suzy Q on April 01, 2014, 01:25:41 PM
Thank you Mustang 54 for speaking up! If our government was doing the job that they were supposed to do according to the law, we would not be in this predicament with all of these ILLEGAL aliens. Why is the law bent for them? Many are waiting to get in legally and they should be our first priority. Enough is enough! Why should we give the time of day to people who continually want to screw the law and us? Screw the march. Take care of your business legally!
Very well said! And what we can do is support companies that hire only LEGAL citizens
http://wehirealiens.com/ (http://wehirealiens.com/)
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on April 02, 2014, 11:45:41 AM
Why don't they follow the legal immigration policy? I've got numerous friends here who came over and became citizens, none of them broke the law to get here and then expected to get a free pass.
Yep, me too, and not just Hispanic.
So if you support companies that only hire LEGAL citizens, what are you going to eat?
All the produce is picked by aliens.
Most restaurants hire aliens.
Most food companies hire aliens.
Suggest you move to a warm climate and have your own 24/7
farm.
My father came in to the US legally in 1938 on the last boat allowed in before WWII. Hitler
got the rest of his family.
Many, many others were not so fortunate
Check out Voyage of the Damned: book or movie.
Our immigration policies do not allow enough people to immigrate legally.
I suppose you only want goods from China where the majority of workers are treated
quite poorly and given slim wages.
Or, you want your customer service to be run from India; again where workers are
treated quite poorly and given slim wages.
Our immigration laws are quite complex.
Before you choose to support companies and business that hire only LEGAL citizens,
check out our laws. See if that is possible.
Or, get to know the US companies. A lot more is going on than simply
immigration.
As Elie Wiesel said, no human being is illegal.
Ignorance is bliss. Ciao for now.
Time for more of your intellectual mind games? Not all aliens are illegal. I'm sure you are smart enough to know that before you typed it.
"Our immigration policies do not allow enough people to immigrate legally."
Really? That's just an opinion. No human being is illegal?That's true it's their actions that are illegal. You are smart enough to know that too.
Mark I am very glad you mentioned goods from China. It amazes me that a whole lot of people who are so politically correct in their thinking and comments in this country worship a company like Apple. The people in China who make their products are some of the worst treated employees in the world. Yet millions can't wait to buy every new toy they come out with. While Apple laughs all the way to the bank. Just shows how many true hypocrites there really are.
Nice try Mark, but what part of
illegal don't you understand ?
Quote from: markweiner on April 02, 2014, 07:27:23 PM
My father came in to the US legally in 1938 on the last boat allowed in before WWII. Hitler
got the rest of his family.
Man you're stretching it. You're gonna' play the Hitler card ?
Quote from: markweiner on April 02, 2014, 07:27:23 PM
Our immigration policies do not allow enough people to immigrate legally.
Bullshit, that's only your opinion.
We have quotas. We have visas. We have work visas. We have work programs that accomodate agriculture. And, we actively seek highly skilled workers.
What happened is that Harold Washington and the "Rainbow Coalition" and the Father Flager's of the world worked to declare Chicago a "sanctuary city" and we simply opened a flood gate of
illegal migration.
Interesting that the heated responses to markweiner's excellent post focused on the question of whether enough people can immigrate legally, and not whether we as a society actually like having the cheap labor immigrants provide.
If illegal immigration were really and truly such a terrible drain on our society, why is there not the political will to start the process of "deporting 'em all" (assuming that in itself wouldn't be an economic drain)?
(Hint: The answer isn't "bleeding-heart liberals keep coddling illegals.")
Bleeding heart liberals is the answer. They talk about reform and do nothing they are just trying to garner minority votes. Just like they do nothing about education but in election years both are part of their lies. Now you can add the minimum wage game by these morons. A living wage? Get a fucking education or some job training instead of expecting the rest of society to pay more to support you. Like I said earlier the more they bullshit about minimum wage, immigration, gun control, and education the more they are trying to cover up their fuck ups. Like Benghazi,NSA,IRS,Obama Care, and trashing the constitution. If that was all done by the Bush administration the partisan pinheads would be whining like babies. We don't need more laws guys, we need the ones that we have had for decades to be enforced. Enforced ON EVERYONE!!
Quote from: markberwyn on April 02, 2014, 09:54:49 PM
Interesting that the heated responses to markweiner's excellent post focused on the question of whether enough people can immigrate legally, and not whether we as a society actually like having the cheap labor immigrants provide.
If illegal immigration were really and truly such a terrible drain on our society, why is there not the political will to start the process of "deporting 'em all" (assuming that in itself wouldn't be an economic drain)?
(Hint: The answer isn't "bleeding-heart liberals keep coddling illegals.")
Republicans want the cheap labor and Democrats want the votes?
Quote from: mustang54 on April 02, 2014, 10:25:57 PM
Bleeding heart liberals is the answer.
Nope.
Quote from: mustang54 on April 02, 2014, 10:25:57 PMThey talk about reform and do nothing they are just trying to garner minority votes.
Maybe, but that includes Republicans too. As you recall, George W. Bush wanted to put forward an immigration reform plan and it was DOA. Why was that, mustang?
Quote from: mustang54 on April 02, 2014, 10:25:57 PMNow you can add the minimum wage game by these morons. A living wage? Get a fucking education or some job training instead of expecting the rest of society to pay more to support you.
The living wage was never about getting something for free---it was getting businesses to recognize that paying workers better allows them to support themselves and their families, reduces turnover, and lessens the strain on social services. (When you aren't paid well, you tend to go to the government for one of those handouts you find so contemptible.) You might also recognize that many of the underpaid workers have had their fucking education and job training and are getting paid poorly despite that.
Quote from: mustang54 on April 02, 2014, 10:25:57 PM
Like I said earlier the more they bullshit about minimum wage, immigration, gun control, and education the more they are trying to cover up their fuck ups. Like Benghazi,
Oh, God, fucking Benghazi. Are conservative tools still willing to die on this hill? Still?
Seriously, are you telling me that Benghazi is more important that illegal immigration?
Quote from: mustang54 on April 02, 2014, 10:25:57 PM
NSA,
You have my assurances that nobody has stopped talking about the NSA scandal.
Quote from: mustang54 on April 02, 2014, 10:25:57 PM
IRS,
Or the IRS! People love to talk about the IRS! Every year!
Quote from: mustang54 on April 02, 2014, 10:25:57 PM
Obama Care,
What about the Affordable Care Act? Has it created problems of some sort for the American people?
Quote from: mustang54 on April 02, 2014, 10:25:57 PM
and trashing the constitution.
I'm trying to think if the Bush administration ever did anything that would be perceived as trashing the constitution. Hrm....
Quote from: mustang54 on April 02, 2014, 10:25:57 PM
If that was all done by the Bush administration the partisan pinheads would be whining like babies.
And now that the Obama administration is perceived to be doing these things (Benghazi! WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT BENGHAZI! MORE THAN WE EVER HAVE BEFORE!), partisan pinheads on message boards are whining like babies.
Quote from: mustang54 on April 02, 2014, 10:25:57 PM
We don't need more laws guys, we need the ones that we have had for decades to be enforced. Enforced ON EVERYONE!!
EVERYONE! DO YOU HEAR ME? EVERYONE! BENGHAZI!
Seriously, though, have you given any thought to what your "deport 'em all" posture would do to this country if it were acted on?
Quote from: Good Time Charlie on April 02, 2014, 10:38:27 PM
Quote from: markberwyn on April 02, 2014, 09:54:49 PM
Interesting that the heated responses to markweiner's excellent post focused on the question of whether enough people can immigrate legally, and not whether we as a society actually like having the cheap labor immigrants provide.
If illegal immigration were really and truly such a terrible drain on our society, why is there not the political will to start the process of "deporting 'em all" (assuming that in itself wouldn't be an economic drain)?
(Hint: The answer isn't "bleeding-heart liberals keep coddling illegals.")
Republicans want the cheap labor and Democrats want the votes?
Everyone wants the cheap labor and everyone wants the votes.
Quote from: markberwyn on April 02, 2014, 09:54:49 PM
Interesting that the heated responses to markweiner's excellent post focused on the question of whether enough people can immigrate legally, and not whether we as a society actually like having the cheap labor immigrants provide.
Excellent post ?
Take off the blinders ! Cheap labor is cheap labor. Those folks at Walmart and McDonald's aren't all illegal immigrants, and because of their low wages we subsidize them plenty so the corporations can make huge profits.
Not sure what it is you think I'm blind to. Are you saying that undocumented workers should become citizens and get jobs at Walmart? How many Walmarts do you have?
Quote from: markberwyn on April 02, 2014, 11:29:44 PM
Are you saying that undocumented workers should become citizens and get jobs at Walmart? How many Walmarts do you have?
Predictable cutesy response.
Fuck that
undocumented crap. Call it like it is. They're
illegal immigrants. And unfortunately, there are plenty of legal workers (citizens) to fill those positions.
You cry out for the plight of the low wage worker, but only for illegal immigrant low wage workers. Cheap labor is cheap labor.
Nobody's answering the question I'm asking. What would happen to American society and the American economy if everybody in this country illegally were deported tomorrow?
Quote from: markberwyn on April 02, 2014, 10:43:27 PM
Quote from: Good Time Charlie on April 02, 2014, 10:38:27 PM
Quote from: markberwyn on April 02, 2014, 09:54:49 PM
Interesting that the heated responses to markweiner's excellent post focused on the question of whether enough people can immigrate legally, and not whether we as a society actually like having the cheap labor immigrants provide.
If illegal immigration were really and truly such a terrible drain on our society, why is there not the political will to start the process of "deporting 'em all" (assuming that in itself wouldn't be an economic drain)?
(Hint: The answer isn't "bleeding-heart liberals keep coddling illegals.")
Republicans want the cheap labor and Democrats want the votes?
Everyone wants the cheap labor and everyone wants the votes.
Well, two wrongs don't make a right. Laws should be enforced. I think if you enforced the law unemployment would drop and nothing bad would happen. If not enough workers let the needed amount in on visas.
Quote from: markweiner on April 02, 2014, 07:27:23 PM
As Elie Wiesel said, no human being is illegal.
I thought she said no human being is an alien.
Quote from: Good Time Charlie on April 03, 2014, 06:57:34 AMI think if you enforced the law unemployment would drop and nothing bad would happen.
Tell me more. What leads you to think this?
Quote from: markberwyn on April 03, 2014, 06:51:23 AM
Nobody's answering the question I'm asking. What would happen to American society and the American economy if everybody in this country illegally were deported tomorrow?
Before I answer let me say my problem with Benghazi is the lies to cover up the mistakes. Oh I forgot Clinton's don.t lie do they? Monica,Whitewater. Yes I must be wrong.
"What would happen to American society and the American economy if everybody in this country illegally were deported tomorrow?"
1. Our schools could balance their budgets a whole lot easier.
2. Healthcare costs would lower do to our emergency rooms not being free clinics anymore and forcing the costs on us legal folks.
3. Car insurance would be cheaper. We might actually get hit by people with a license and insurance!
4. Our jails would be far less crowded and we wouldn't have to pay for their stay or let other criminals out early to make room for them.
5. We would actually get served by workers who actually speak and understand our language.
6. Lower unemployment.
Yes Mark out society would become a real freakin mess.
As for your statement of republicans doing the same things or being just as bad, I NEVER said they were any better. They are just as lost. I'm tired of people especially in Illinois and Chicago believing in and voting for these democratic crooks and liars. Answer this for me please. Other than the Republicans being too stupid to run candidates in the city and county why do minorities especially on the south side keep voting in the same pukes while their kids are being killed every day?
Deportation is not just about hispanics. Just wondering....If any of you are hispanic?
Quote from: markberwyn on April 03, 2014, 08:34:05 AM
Quote from: Good Time Charlie on April 03, 2014, 06:57:34 AMI think if you enforced the law unemployment would drop and nothing bad would happen.
Tell me more. What leads you to think this?
I forget where I learned it but I seem to recall for my dusty college days something called supply and demand. So you figure if you have an unegulated border with a country with a lot of low skill workers then the supply for low wage jobs always going to be high and the demand low which will mean higher unemployment for American citizens. You could always adjust with visas if the supply was too low (that whole they do the jobs in Americans won't do thing that a lot of people think isn't true).
But I could be wrong and you seem like a very smart guy. What makes you think that enforcing the immigration laws would lead to a big problem? Tell us more about that.
author=MindoverMatter link=topic=13408.msg219355#msg219355 date=1396536985]
Deportation is not just about hispanics. Just wondering....If any of you are hispanic?
[/quote]
If it's not just about Hispanics then why does it matter who is Hispanic LOL!
Quote from: Good Time Charlie on April 03, 2014, 10:21:08 AM
author=MindoverMatter link=topic=13408.msg219355#msg219355 date=1396536985]
Deportation is not just about hispanics. Just wondering....If any of you are hispanic?
If it's not just about Hispanics then why does it matter who is Hispanic LOL!
[/quote]
Most of the above comments made were references to hispanics. Deportation is not just about hispanics it is a FACT...the other one was a question.
I also don't think you really have to deport 'em. All you have to do is require everify and hold employers accountable. They would leave on their own.
Quote from: Good Time Charlie on April 03, 2014, 10:18:11 AM
But I could be wrong and you seem like a very smart guy. What makes you think that enforcing the immigration laws would lead to a big problem? Tell us more about that.
I think the country would be left with a lot of low-wage industries---textiles and agriculture most prominently, but also lots of parts of the service industry---that would be left unfilled. If it's true that American citizens will indeed do those jobs, they will not do them at the wages that people in the country illegally have been doing them for. Then the comfortable sheets you sleep in get more expense. So does supper. So do hotels, prompting less business travel and vacations and likely doing some serious damage to the travel industry. Your life will become more expensive; so will mine, and so will everybody else's.
I say this not as a justification for paying people poorly, just to explain why immigration reform hasn't happened in earnest, and why "kick 'em all out" rhetoric is a non-starter.
Thanks, reading what you've written here can't believe you'd think having people not covered by labor laws or too scared to report because they're illegals is good. If the justification is we need prices low then you also have to say that we should get rid of or lower minimum wage and safety laws to give citizens a fair shake. I doubt anyone thinks that! Get rid of em is redneck response but require everify and focus on the employers. That would dry up demand for illegal labor.
Many issues need to be resolved in person at a Social Security office,all cannot be resolved on line.
Quote from: Good Time Charlie on April 03, 2014, 11:13:37 AM
Thanks, reading what you've written here can't believe you'd think having people not covered by labor laws or too scared to report because they're illegals is good. If the justification is we need prices low then you also have to say that we should get rid of or lower minimum wage and safety laws to give citizens a fair shake. I doubt anyone thinks that! Get rid of em is redneck response but require everify and focus on the employers. That would dry up demand for illegal labor.
Sounds nice. But there's no motivation for people who are here illegally to report employers that are flouting labor laws---they're here because whatever crummy deal they're getting is better than what they'd get in their home country. And there is no political will to "focus on the employers" because those employers will claim (perhaps rightly in many cases) that they'd be bankrupted if they followed the law. (Call this another example of that harsh government regulation that conservatives are always concerned about.)
Bolstered border protection and higher deportations under the Obama administration have only persuaded the people who are here illegally that they need to stay put. If they leave, it'll be harder to come back in. Knowing that, what's the fix?
QuoteMany issues need to be resolved in person at a Social Security office,all cannot be resolved on line.
Like?
How much do you think it costs to educate an illegal child for 12 years?
I believe the bottom line is the American dollar drives all!!!! Mustang54 you are so correct!
Issues with SSI,Disability,Appeals,and the Wick program.etc.
QuoteHow much do you think it costs to educate an illegal child for 12 years?
Maybe less than not educating them?
Quote from: MindoverMatter on April 03, 2014, 09:56:25 AM
Deportation is not just about hispanics. Just wondering....If any of you are hispanic?
Don't think anyone said that it is. There are just as many illegals here from all over the world.
Ever wonder why none of the politicians want to reform immigration or follow the laws already written? Why then can't citizens say fuck the laws I can speed,smoke where ever I want,the hell with seat belts, screw your taxes I am not paying,no need for auto insurance any more, the politicians do it all the time. I think we are a free country? or maybe I am going to declare myself an Illegal!!!!
Quote from: berwyn senator on April 03, 2014, 12:04:49 PM
Ever wonder why none of the politicians want to reform immigration or follow the laws already written? Why then can't citizens say fuck the laws I can speed,smoke where ever I want,the hell with seat belts, screw your taxes I am not paying,no need for auto insurance any more, the politicians do it all the time. I think we are a free country? or maybe I am going to declare myself an Illegal!!!!
I'd come to assume that you're already smoking whatever you want.
I know that major companies have send out letters of verification of employment to their employees. Requesting that they show proof they are able to work in the US, and also to confirm your dependents by March 31st.
Quote from: markberwyn on April 03, 2014, 11:35:26 AM
Quote from: Good Time Charlie on April 03, 2014, 11:13:37 AM
Thanks, reading what you've written here can't believe you'd think having people not covered by labor laws or too scared to report because they're illegals is good. If the justification is we need prices low then you also have to say that we should get rid of or lower minimum wage and safety laws to give citizens a fair shake. I doubt anyone thinks that! Get rid of em is redneck response but require everify and focus on the employers. That would dry up demand for illegal labor.
Sounds nice. But there's no motivation for people who are here illegally to report employers that are flouting labor laws---they're here because whatever crummy deal they're getting is better than what they'd get in their home country. And there is no political will to "focus on the employers" because those employers will claim (perhaps rightly in many cases) that they'd be bankrupted if they followed the law. (Call this another example of that harsh government regulation that conservatives are always concerned about.)
Bolstered border protection and higher deportations under the Obama administration have only persuaded the people who are here illegally that they need to stay put. If they leave, it'll be harder to come back in. Knowing that, what's the fix?
The fix is the political will to focus on and punish the employers. If some go under oh well. Better than making us subsidize their cheap unregulated workforce!
I thought there is a form employers were to have on file,from the time a person is hired, could it be an I-9?
Its not what I smoke? It is where I smoke.
Quote from: Good Time Charlie on April 03, 2014, 12:46:19 PM
The fix is the political will to focus on and punish the employers. If some go under oh well. Better than making us subsidize their cheap unregulated workforce!
"Some"?
Perhaps as an exercise, you can avoid doing business with anybody who hires workers who are here illegally. You won't be eating out much. Clothes shopping will become interesting. So will hotel shopping. Which buildings around you were constructed with the help of cheap labor? Would you feel comfortable entering them? Will you have to leave your own home?
You're saying that would be difficult and you're right, because the government ignored immigration laws for the last 30 years or so. But still doesn't make it right or give an excuse to ignore the situation. I'm confused why a liberal would ever support exploitation of workers just because we have been doing it for a long time. You got to say enough's enough sooner or later.
Quote from: Good Time Charlie on April 03, 2014, 05:24:25 PM
You're saying that would be difficult and you're right, because the government ignored immigration laws for the last 30 years or so. But still doesn't make it right or give an excuse to ignore the situation. I'm confused why a liberal would ever support exploitation of workers just because we have been doing it for a long time. You got to say enough's enough sooner or later.
I don't support the exploitation of workers. I just don't support a round-'em-up-and-ship-'em-out approach, because it's expensive on a lot of levels and practically unworkable. What would a better approach be? I'm not certain. That's why I said it was complicated.
A good start would be deport those who commit crimes at once! Not hard its real frickin easy they are already in custody,DUH. Letting over 68,000 criminals loose who were supposed to be deported is just plain fricking stupid and dangerous to OUR society. Whoever made that call should be ousted at once and I don't give a damn who they are, or what party they are from.
Quote from: markberwyn on April 03, 2014, 05:34:25 PM
Quote from: Good Time Charlie on April 03, 2014, 05:24:25 PM
You're saying that would be difficult and you're right, because the government ignored immigration laws for the last 30 years or so. But still doesn't make it right or give an excuse to ignore the situation. I'm confused why a liberal would ever support exploitation of workers just because we have been doing it for a long time. You got to say enough's enough sooner or later.
I don't support the exploitation of workers. I just don't support a round-'em-up-and-ship-'em-out approach, because it's expensive on a lot of levels and practically unworkable. What would a better approach be? I'm not certain. That's why I said it was complicated.
Make employers use e-verify and fine them and take their business licenses away. That will dry up the demand and the illegals will self deport. I thought I was clear on that. I guess not.
Quote from: Good Time Charlie on April 03, 2014, 06:09:45 PM
Quote from: markberwyn on April 03, 2014, 05:34:25 PM
Quote from: Good Time Charlie on April 03, 2014, 05:24:25 PM
You're saying that would be difficult and you're right, because the government ignored immigration laws for the last 30 years or so. But still doesn't make it right or give an excuse to ignore the situation. I'm confused why a liberal would ever support exploitation of workers just because we have been doing it for a long time. You got to say enough's enough sooner or later.
I don't support the exploitation of workers. I just don't support a round-'em-up-and-ship-'em-out approach, because it's expensive on a lot of levels and practically unworkable. What would a better approach be? I'm not certain. That's why I said it was complicated.
Make employers use e-verify and fine them and take their business licenses away. That will dry up the demand and the illegals will self deport. I thought I was clear on that. I guess not.
What about the path to citizenship? Are we interested in finding ways for people to live in the country legally, or are we just looking for ways to make people leave?
Cut all the social programs?
There has ALWAYS been a path to citizenship Mark but when you let millions ignore it and do nothing about it, it creates the huge problems we now have. Nobody mentions what would happen to us if we entered a country illegally. We would be thrown in jail or in some cases probably lose our head. Sorry illegal is just that illegal.
I wonder have all these illegals come up to our living standards,improving themselves or has this country lowered its standards to appease the illegals.I am aware when my grandparents came here legally,the first thing they wanted to do was learn the language so they could get a job.When they bought their house they were so proud,making sure all was kept clean.They took nothing for nothing!!!!!!
Quote from: markberwyn on April 03, 2014, 07:30:13 PM
Quote from: Good Time Charlie on April 03, 2014, 06:09:45 PM
Quote from: markberwyn on April 03, 2014, 05:34:25 PM
Quote from: Good Time Charlie on April 03, 2014, 05:24:25 PM
You're saying that would be difficult and you're right, because the government ignored immigration laws for the last 30 years or so. But still doesn't make it right or give an excuse to ignore the situation. I'm confused why a liberal would ever support exploitation of workers just because we have been doing it for a long time. You got to say enough's enough sooner or later.
I don't support the exploitation of workers. I just don't support a round-'em-up-and-ship-'em-out approach, because it's expensive on a lot of levels and practically unworkable. What would a better approach be? I'm not certain. That's why I said it was complicated.
Make employers use e-verify and fine them and take their business licenses away. That will dry up the demand and the illegals will self deport. I thought I was clear on that. I guess not.
What about the path to citizenship? Are we interested in finding ways for people to live in the country legally, or are we just looking for ways to make people leave?
I'd listen but would be worried that doing that would have the same result that Reagan's amnesty law did in the 1980s, a lot more illegal immigration! Unless you really crack down on employers the same incentives for employers to hire illegals would be there, so you'd just get more beyond the current group if you legalized them. Probably a lot more because we'd be sending the message that we'll eventually give amnesty if you can hang on long enough. Wouldn't you be concerned with that?
Most countries have quotas based on what they need in their labor force. I don't know why America for some reason is expected not to. I'm all for giving visas if there's a shortage, like we talked about earlier.
Replacing the illegal workers should be made easy by a government agency I believe is called the department of unemployment security? I'm sure they have PLENTY of people without jobs. If they feel they are above the job quit sending them checks and link cards. The system will work fine if the politicians run things the way they were designed DECADES AGO. Don't need all these new laws and systems they just need to enforce what we have, its really simple. The politicians know it they just like to have their political toys and excuses at election time.
I think the majority of the American public feel the same,illegal is illegal! But Washington is just making a fool of U.S. citizens.They do what is good for themselves and big business,nothing else.Until we control Washington nothing will change!! Of the people,by the people,for the people. I think I am correct? Term limits a good start.
Quote from: markberwyn on April 03, 2014, 05:34:25 PM
Quote from: Good Time Charlie on April 03, 2014, 05:24:25 PM
You're saying that would be difficult and you're right, because the government ignored immigration laws for the last 30 years or so. But still doesn't make it right or give an excuse to ignore the situation. I'm confused why a liberal would ever support exploitation of workers just because we have been doing it for a long time. You got to say enough's enough sooner or later.
I don't support the exploitation of workers. I just don't support a round-'em-up-and-ship-'em-out approach, because it's expensive on a lot of levels and practically unworkable. What would a better approach be? I'm not certain. That's why I said it was complicated.
Believe it or not, I have to agree. I don't think most people realize the extent to which we rely on an illegal workforce. As for the "they're taking jobs away from people who are either citizens or in this country legally" contingent, I will tell you most of those people will not take those jobs. Also, what about the kids? I know one who was brought into this country when he was under a year old, has gone to school here since kindergarten, works like a dog and even though he is as American as most of us on this forum, still cannot get a drivers license and has to worry about being deported to a country he has barely visited since birth.
Quote from: mustang54 on April 03, 2014, 05:45:13 PM
A good start would be deport those who commit crimes at once! Not hard its real frickin easy they are already in custody,DUH. Letting over 68,000 criminals loose who were supposed to be deported is just plain fricking stupid and dangerous to OUR society. Whoever made that call should be ousted at once and I don't give a damn who they are, or what party they are from.
I have to agree with you somewhat on this. If they ARE convicted, yes they should be deported. Do not pass go, go directly back to your home country and don't ever try to come back. I actually think lawyers benefit from this the most and just remember, my daughter will be a lawyer in a few years. I'm sure she would debate me on this issue.
If Washington did not want the illegals here they would not be here!!!
Quote from: MRS. NORTHSIDER on April 03, 2014, 10:37:07 PM
Also, what about the kids?
The
anchor babies are an even bigger problem.
If you give amnesty to the kids then amnesty to the parents will be next because you'll start hearing a lot of stories and seeing a lot of protests about how wrong it is to separate U.S. citizens from their families. Something the DREAMERs aren't being up front about. If they're in an unfortunate situation it's because of the parents who chose to break the law!
Quote from: buzz on April 04, 2014, 04:01:24 PM
Quote from: MRS. NORTHSIDER on April 03, 2014, 10:37:07 PM
Also, what about the kids?
The anchor babies are an even bigger problem.
Quote from: Good Time Charlie on April 04, 2014, 06:30:46 PM
If you give amnesty to the kids
It's not
amnesty. If a child is born on US soil it's a US citizen which is the reason so many pregnant women make "
their journey".
On the way home from work lastnight I drove past the church, it was around 5:30, I forgot that the march was yesterday until I saw all the news trucks parked outside. I didn't see any people so either they were all inside eating, or the turnout may have been have been low. It was not raining, sorry Berwyn Senator.
Quote from: moose on April 08, 2014, 07:19:33 AM
I didn't see any people so either they were all inside eating, or the turnout may have been have been low.
Ch.9 had very light coverage. Turnout did look low.
Quote from: buzz on April 04, 2014, 06:45:41 PM
Quote from: buzz on April 04, 2014, 04:01:24 PM
Quote from: MRS. NORTHSIDER on April 03, 2014, 10:37:07 PM
Also, what about the kids?
The anchor babies are an even bigger problem.
Quote from: Good Time Charlie on April 04, 2014, 06:30:46 PM
If you give amnesty to the kids
It's not amnesty. If a child is born on US soil it's a US citizen which is the reason so many pregnant women make "their journey".
In the business world, it's called "birth tourism". I read about this a few years ago. I contacted Senator Durbin for a reply, I got nothing.
http://www.ibtimes.com/birth-tourism-las-maternity-hotels-enrage-residents-are-they-illegal-1050206 (http://www.ibtimes.com/birth-tourism-las-maternity-hotels-enrage-residents-are-they-illegal-1050206)
I did not go fishing!
Quote from: markberwyn on April 03, 2014, 07:30:13 PM
Quote from: Good Time Charlie on April 03, 2014, 06:09:45 PM
Quote from: markberwyn on April 03, 2014, 05:34:25 PM
Quote from: Good Time Charlie on April 03, 2014, 05:24:25 PM
You're saying that would be difficult and you're right, because the government ignored immigration laws for the last 30 years or so. But still doesn't make it right or give an excuse to ignore the situation. I'm confused why a liberal would ever support exploitation of workers just because we have been doing it for a long time. You got to say enough's enough sooner or later.
I don't support the exploitation of workers. I just don't support a round-'em-up-and-ship-'em-out approach, because it's expensive on a lot of levels and practically unworkable. What would a better approach be? I'm not certain. That's why I said it was complicated.
Make employers use e-verify and fine them and take their business licenses away. That will dry up the demand and the illegals will self deport. I thought I was clear on that. I guess not.
What about the path to citizenship? Are we interested in finding ways for people to live in the country legally, or are we just looking for ways to make people leave?
Let's work our way through all the people who have followed the LEGAL process. Then let's move on to illegals.
Also, I'd rather have educated people become citizens (engineers, doctors, entrepreneurs, business men) than uneducated workers doing manual labor.
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on April 17, 2014, 12:13:21 PM
Also, I'd rather have educated people become citizens (engineers, doctors, entrepreneurs, business men) than uneducated workers doing manual labor.
Somebody has to clean up after those for whom it would be too demeaning! Might be a good idea to stop knocking honest labor, regardless of caste. Crap like "See that guy shoveling shit? He's why you go to college!"
Unless of course you'd like to come up with an honest measure of "educated" and de-qualify those who obviously miss the mark.
The sad truth the American worker no longer wants to do the manual labor,or maybe not work at all?
Quote from: watcher on April 18, 2014, 11:08:26 AM
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on April 17, 2014, 12:13:21 PM
Also, I'd rather have educated people become citizens (engineers, doctors, entrepreneurs, business men) than uneducated workers doing manual labor.
Somebody has to clean up after those for whom it would be too demeaning! Might be a good idea to stop knocking honest labor, regardless of caste. Crap like "See that guy shoveling shit? He's why you go to college!"
Unless of course you'd like to come up with an honest measure of "educated" and de-qualify those who obviously miss the mark.
Everyone should get a trophy!
Quote from: watcher on April 18, 2014, 11:08:26 AM
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on April 17, 2014, 12:13:21 PM
Also, I'd rather have educated people become citizens (engineers, doctors, entrepreneurs, business men) than uneducated workers doing manual labor.
Somebody has to clean up after those for whom it would be too demeaning! Might be a good idea to stop knocking honest labor, regardless of caste. Crap like "See that guy shoveling shit? He's why you go to college!"
Unless of course you'd like to come up with an honest measure of "educated" and de-qualify those who obviously miss the mark.
There is lots of unemployed people here. Let them have first crack at the jobs (and pay may rise because they are not off the books).