Council Meeting 07/24/2007

[menace2society]

Yeah, I can see Bobby giving his mom another city job where she does absolutely NOTHING and gets paid a whole lot more for it, too. 

[Shelley]

@Shelly - no one as yet has really responded to your post, but you also have asked some very good questions to get discussion going.  Someone pointed you out to me at a few of Bobby's fundraisers and I applaud you that even though you may attend a fundraiser it doesn't stop you from posing good questions.

That was more likely my younger sister.  I don't believe I have attended any political fundraisers.

[Berwyn Patsy]

A mistaken identity!!  See, how stories start?  Although as the mother of all 4 of you, I can see how you are constantly being taken as the wrong Raymond girl.

[tgoddess]

@Shelly - no one as yet has really responded to your post, but you also have asked some very good questions to get discussion going.  Someone pointed you out to me at a few of Bobby's fundraisers and I applaud you that even though you may attend a fundraiser it doesn't stop you from posing good questions.

That was more likely my younger sister.  I don't believe I have attended any political fundraisers.

And people wonder how rumors get started?

[apatriot]

Shelly, you were not at a fundraiser at the Skylight last fall ?  if not, apologies.  you other ladies, calm down.

So I will restate.  Shelley, since members of your family support Bobby, you still stood up to ask good questions of both parties.  How's that?

[mrs. scoon]

Yeah, I can see Bobby giving his mom another city job where she does absolutely NOTHING and gets paid a whole lot more for it, too. 

I guessing that this as a sarcastic comment. 

[scoon]

Ted:  "2. City Finances - Bob Lovero was the chairman of the budget committee from 2001 to 2005.  Why did the new administration in 2005 find that the budget they inherited was $8 million dollars out of whack?  Why did the new adminsitration in 2005 have to go out and extend the city's credit line by $3 million dollars and issue an $8 million dollar bond within 6 months after taking office?

 As Budget Commitee Chairman, how did Bob Lovero not realize that the 2005 budget that was passed by the city council had an $8 million hole in it?"

OH, Ted.  That's the grand daddy of em all isn't it?  How did I forget about that one ?  Maybe cause I'm not as point blank as you are.  I tried to sugar coat my inquiries.  But since you now have reminded us of THAT one, YES, how does an $8 M deficit in the budget get passed with Lovero as CHAIRMAN of the BUDGET COMMITTEE.  Will be a good debate question for Bobby in the future, as it looks like he still hasn't given an answer to those he now wants to stand beside him.  Maybe at the Nite at the Races, someone could jump up and request QUIET PLEASE EVERYONE,  Then politely state:  Hey, Bobby, before I give one more dime to your campaign and enjoy this evening out, can you please tell me how a budget was passed with $8M in the hole with you at the helm ?  I suppose that would be tacky.

Oh look !!  There's a body being dragged by the buggy attached to that horse over there.  Oh, that's just the guy who asked that stupid question earlier.  

Anybody that doesn't want to know the answer to that question has some serious ass kissing problems and does not care about the finances of the City.  Scoon, you're big pals with Bobby, ASK HIM.  Then let us know what the answer is.   Maybe you could be the guy who asks at the Night at the Races.

@Shelly - no one as yet has really responded to your post, but you also have asked some very good questions to get discussion going.  Someone pointed you out to me at a few of Bobby's fundraisers and I applaud you that even though you may attend a fundraiser it doesn't stop you from posing good questions.

It is not uncommon for people to give to multiple candidates.  It's done all the time.  I say that because I think Ted is his own person and not owned by any political party.  If he supported the IVB, he's not alone.  Many did as demonstrated by their landslide victory.  That race is over.  Time has passed.  People are now looking at performance.  I'm not fan of OC, but admittedly I must say so far he hasn't tried to steal any money from the City.  Unless you think hiring friends and relatives is stealing, but then again, someone has to fill those positions, and I assume if Bobby gets in he will be doing the same damn thing.  Patronage will never die.  It's at every level of government.  They can put laws into place to ban relatives, but I really don't see how they can do the same with "friends".  Whose to say who is a friend and who is not?  It has been said here a thousand times that the mayor can appoint who he wants.  Until that is changed, that will continue - for Bobby too.

Scoon:  "(thank God)" - so you DO believe in God, huh?  if you say so.

Ted:  "it probably would have been cheaper for me to invite politicians over for a Memorial Day bar-b-que or drink with them every other Tuesday at OOT than contribute to their campaigns."

ooooo, Ted.  That HAD to hurt.  But if I would have said that (which I have wanted to for a loooong time) oh brother.  But sometimes the truth really can kick you right in the ...

Scoon:  "It's going to get ugly and freindships will be lost."  How true.

Scoon:  "So enjoy this while you can"  Oh, I am, believe me.

That was one scary peek into apatriot's psyche.  I'm beginning to think I've been too hard on this poor soul.

[OakParkSpartan]

Yeah, I can see Bobby giving his mom another city job where she does absolutely NOTHING and gets paid a whole lot more for it, too. 

I don't see that happening.  I think she'd also have to give up her pension if she goes back to work.  She's worked for the city for what, 30 years?  Why come back?

[Shelley]

Shelly, you were not at a fundraiser at the Skylight last fall ?  if not, apologies.  you other ladies, calm down.

So I will restate.  Shelley, since members of your family support Bobby, you still stood up to ask good questions of both parties.  How's that?

No need to apologize.  Let me be clear, though.  I think Mr. Lovero and Mr. O'Connor are more alike than either would care to admit.  I don't know either well, but to me they both seem like basically decent guys who, unless they are great actors, really do care about Berwyn.  I also think they are both better politicians than they are leaders.  Maybe I am just a hopeless optimist or terribly naive.  I'm trying to evaluate, based on their past voting patterns and any accomplishments.  For example, a big issue on this board was parking, especially on the north side.  Has there been any improvement?  Have either BL ( a northside alderman) or the mayor made any progress?  Also, I was disappointed that Mr. Lovero voted against moving the bar hours from 6am to later...though I think he may have later supported a compromise of 10 am that died in City Council.  I also think he voted to soften the smoking ban.  These are the quality of life issues that matter to me.  I've been disappointed in the mayor's hiring practices and his unprofessional behavior at city council meetings.  I'm also concerned about government spending in Berwyn, especially given the lack of funds, so I'm interested in how the leadership views contract negotiations, perks like health insurance and gas keys.  I'm trying to keep emotion out of it and get a feel for the general philosophies of the two announced candidates (are there any more?).  All that being said, I wish that each "camp" would stop trying to portray the other as evil.  I'd like to talk about relevant decisions that each has made or publicly supported.  Who can lead?? 

Shelley

[apatriot]

Shelley:  "I also think they are both better politicians than they are leaders."  RIGHT ON THE MARK.

[Bonster]

the general philosophies of the two announced candidates (are there any more?). 
.
.
.
Who can lead?? 

BRIC Is About Better Government!

[OakParkSpartan]

The idea of switching to a City Manager form of government would probably help Berwyn more than anything else.

I know folks will say it is still the city council that runs things, but at least you'd have someone in the position of Manager to know how things SHOULD be done.  Right now, we have no chance of getting someone elected mayor with the experience of managing 450 employees and a $60 million budget.  Would you trust any jamoke off the street with that responsibility?

[Bear]

The idea of switching to a City Manager form of government would probably help Berwyn more than anything else.

I know folks will say it is still the city council that runs things, but at least you'd have someone in the position of Manager to know how things SHOULD be done.  Right now, we have no chance of getting someone elected mayor with the experience of managing 450 employees and a $60 million budget.  Would you trust any jamoke off the street with that responsibility?

Ahem...Is that not precisely what 60402 did two years ago?

[OakParkSpartan]

Yes.  And prior to that as well.

How's that worked out?

[Bear]

Yes.  And prior to that as well.

How's that worked out?

You tell me...we both voted for him

[Artanis1215]

Yeah, I can see Bobby giving his mom another city job where she does absolutely NOTHING and gets paid a whole lot more for it, too. 

His mother would have to give up her pension.  Know what you are talking about before you post!

[menace2society]

Yeah, I can see Bobby giving his mom another city job where she does absolutely NOTHING and gets paid a whole lot more for it, too. 

His mother would have to give up her pension.  Know what you are talking about before you post!

See, he's already different than OC.

[Rizzo]

Shelly, you were not at a fundraiser at the Skylight last fall ?  if not, apologies.  you other ladies, calm down.

So I will restate.  Shelley, since members of your family support Bobby, you still stood up to ask good questions of both parties.  How's that?

No need to apologize.  Let me be clear, though.  I think Mr. Lovero and Mr. O'Connor are more alike than either would care to admit.  I don't know either well, but to me they both seem like basically decent guys who, unless they are great actors, really do care about Berwyn.  I also think they are both better politicians than they are leaders.  Maybe I am just a hopeless optimist or terribly naive.  I'm trying to evaluate, based on their past voting patterns and any accomplishments.  For example, a big issue on this board was parking, especially on the north side.  Has there been any improvement?  Have either BL ( a northside alderman) or the mayor made any progress?  Also, I was disappointed that Mr. Lovero voted against moving the bar hours from 6am to later...though I think he may have later supported a compromise of 10 am that died in City Council.  I also think he voted to soften the smoking ban.  These are the quality of life issues that matter to me.  I've been disappointed in the mayor's hiring practices and his unprofessional behavior at city council meetings.  I'm also concerned about government spending in Berwyn, especially given the lack of funds, so I'm interested in how the leadership views contract negotiations, perks like health insurance and gas keys.  I'm trying to keep emotion out of it and get a feel for the general philosophies of the two announced candidates (are there any more?).  All that being said, I wish that each "camp" would stop trying to portray the other as evil.  I'd like to talk about relevant decisions that each has made or publicly supported.  Who can lead?? 

Shelley

Leadership, is a two way street.  The greatest "leader" cannot lead those who are unwilling to be led.  Also, everyone in the group, team, etc. cannot be the leader.  You, are correct, members of a group can waste a lot of time playing the blame game.  Nothing wrong with awareness of the past but, after reading some of the repetitious posts I've almost got the history memorized.  and as one of you put it "the weeds are getting taller at cermak and oakpark" 

Example, the movie "gladiator"  Lead character " If we work together we can prevail " "how many have military experience?"  "on my command form the turtle"  Those few who did not join the group were quickly dispatched.   The others finished the movie. 

The leader is the team and the team is the leader.  A symbiotic relationship.

[watcher]

The Wisdom of Baba Fats:

"It's always the same Lord. old soul or bright-eyed youth
It's always easier to sell `em some shit, than it is to tell `em the truth."

[Rizzo]

People ask the difference between a leader and a boss. . . The leader works in the open, and the boss in covert. The leader leads, and the boss drives.
- Theodore Roosevelt