Cigars and Stripes?

[berwyn senator]

No your getting the idea!!!!!!!!!!!

[markberwyn]

Dude put out a press release:

http://www.prnewschannel.com/2015/06/01/chicago-bar-owner-associated-with-ladies-room-two-way-mirror-reflects-in-new-youtube-video/

[berwyn senator]

Are there a few dive bars with more problems than a mirror?Maybe picking on them would help the neighborhood clean out the bums that hang out around them.

[markberwyn]

Are there a few dive bars with more problems than a mirror?Maybe picking on them would help the neighborhood clean out the bums that hang out around them.

Are any of them finalists for an award from the Berwyn Development Corporation for improving Berwyn's reputation?

[markberwyn]

The more I think about this video, the more I'm struck at how ignorant and troubling Ronnie Lottz's rhetoric is.

The thrust of Lottz's defense is that the woman who shot the video, if she was so very offended by the mirror, ought to have made an issue of it on the spot instead of shooting video of it. Here's what Lottz says:

"If I was a woman, and I felt very violated, when I got on that stage, I would've screamed at the top of my lungs, 'There's a two-way mirror in there!' All that person had to do was ask me. Just ask me. Or go to the cops."

All I know about Tamale Sepp is what I've seen online. But given what I know about her career in particular, and female performers in general, I can make a few reasonable surmises.

Say you're a female comic. Not big-time, but you've been around for a few years. You've played your share of weird venues, and you've heard that the venue you're performing at, Cigars & Stripes, is weird too. (Here's what one female comic you're performing with wrote about it: http://brightestyoungthings.com/articles/nightmare-gig-meredith-kachel.htm) But that's fine---you're a little weird too, and the owner gets a good crowd. Maybe she even sees the owner hanging out with customers---"How ya doin', Ronnie!"---but even if she doesn't, she knows that decent crowds don't show up by accident. The owner works hard to keep his regulars happy.

You hear about this mirror, or you notice the mirror. Either way, it's unsettling. You shoot a video of it when nobody is watching.

You have an opportunity here. You're upset. You want people to know that there's a mirror in the women's restroom that can be used for exploitative purposes. You want the owner to know that, whatever the rationale behind that mirror is, leaving it there is about 200 kinds of not-OK.

All you have to do is get on stage and say it.

But.

Obviously this owner has a whole lot of goodwill in this room. If you speak up right then and there, how is that crowd---a crowd that likes the venue and that came to laugh, not hear a lecture---going to react? If they get upset with you, do you know how to get out safely? Are you putting the other women comics you came with in any kind of danger? Even if you're pretty badass, you're in an unfamiliar place with an unfamiliar crowd with an owner you know little about except that he's plainly OK with an undisclosed two-way mirror in his ladies' room.

OK. Never mind. Be a pro. Do your set. Hang out. Play nice. Maybe take a break and go call the cops.

And say...what? There's a mirror in a restroom that may or may not be illegal? What's the law about two-way mirrors? You don't have recall on that in the immediate moment---who does? And who knows what the cops are like in Berwyn? Maybe sympathetic, maybe not. And anyway, then you've got the same problem in a different way: You'd have to wait for the cops to arrive, and then the owner and patrons start circling around, wondering what this woman is complaining about...

Seriously. Imagine you're the female comic in this situation. What would be the upside of making a noise about the mirror from the stage, or calling the police?

I know: This all risks portraying female performers as weak creatures. But I think even a male performer in a similar circumstance would have issues with being confrontational in the way Ronnie Lottz recommends, and the comic has expressed some sensitivity to women getting exploited in clubs.

In any event, Lottz's suggestion is foolish and presumptuous. I hope he gets out of the business of telling women how they ought to behave.

[Cathy]

His little PR campaign is back firing on him,  People are tired of it and want him to step up and be a man instead of trying to play the victim!!!!

Here are some of the comments left:
SickOfTheDrama • 2 hours ago
This is hilarious.
SOURCE: Cigars and Stripes B.B.Q. LoungeThe only thing accurate in this article is that "the comedian has not apologized or removed the video." The source and slant were a dead giveaway. Most importantly, has the mirror been taken down yet? No? Cool. Figured as much.

the
comedian has not apologized or removed the video. - See more at:
http://www.prnewschannel.com/2...
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C Zisterer • 3 hours ago
Totally Lame! This man has consistently played the part of "victim"! When you look at the video that Tamale made she never once mentioned the name of the establishment or Ronnie Lottz. The man has a 2-way mirror in his bar/rib joint/fun house, what ever the hell it is!!!! It has been there for 15 years and it took a comedian to finally expose this travesty.
Yes, people are upset, with good reason. Since this video has come out, we have seen Ronnie on talk shows etc. raving like a lunatic about his " Mummy" being stolen, Big Foot buried in the back, Halloween decorations, his fabulous BBQ, etc., I'll burn this place down first! All kinds of stuff. Why didn't he act like a man, apologize, and take it down from the start?
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Question • 27 minutes ago
Dude, why are you still talking about this? Just step up, replace the two-way mirror and tell the world that you're a hero for fixing it. Viral videos aside, all you have to do is fix the fucking thing and the whole thing blows over. You can start telling people that you heard their requests and gave the people what they wanted and happily sell hot wings all the live long day.

But shooting rebuttal videos in your bathroom? Releasing press releases to "set the record straight"? Telling your side? What are you a teenage girl? Nobody gives a fuck. Just fix the damned thing already.

Jesus Christ, man.
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Avatar
Peanut Butter • 2 hours ago
And what exactly are your terms Ronnie cause they seem to keep changing? First you swore you weren't going to take the mirror down and that you would rather burn your place to the ground. We're all still waiting for you to follow thru on that.
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[markberwyn]

More from the Tribune, which at least had the good sense to contact the people involved:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-berwyn-two-way-mirror-met-20150602-story.html

Lottz says he'll make taking the mirror down into some kind of doofy spectacle:

The door and mirror, temporarily removed for the video, are back in place and will be permanently unhinged in the coming days, Lottz said. The removal, he said, will be recorded and posted online.

"It will be quite the spectacle," Lottz promised.

Is there nobody in Berwyn who can have a private conversation with this man and talk some sense into him?

[markberwyn]

Yeesh, this guy. From the C&S Facebook page:

I have a after thought... the sheep have been misinformed she should take down the video or apologize to the 22 THOUSAND people that sent hate mail to me and my family..all for what 3.4 million views on youtube. She should split the youtube checks with me..after all It's my mirror in the first place

Ronnie Lottz iz never the victim, the public is they have been fooled.

[Cathy]

@Markberwyn.  It's really kind of pitiful if you think about it.  This man really has some kind of problem.  First he rants and raves how he will burn the place down first.  Then in interviews he incoherently rants about his stolen Mummy, Big Foot buried, Fun House, how he enjoys making people uncomfortable,  how he used the mirror for a prank, and on and on. 

Now, he starts out about how "he gets it", then blathers on about how it is all her fault.  He is the victim in all of this.

Now he will take it down, video tape and post.  It's going to be a spectacle!    I'm sure it will be!

Kind of sad in a sick way.  Oh well, the saga continues.  Let's hope this doesn't go worldwide too.  Berwyn doesn't need anymore bad press!

[Ronnie Lottz]

http://wgnradio.com/2015/06/02/its-not-just-smoke-and-two-way-mirrors-at-controversial-berwyn-bar/

[markberwyn]

http://wgnradio.com/2015/06/02/its-not-just-smoke-and-two-way-mirrors-at-controversial-berwyn-bar/

I recall Ronnie Lottz telling people a month or so back that if Lenny Bruce were alive today he'd be performing at Cigars & Stripes. On the evidence of this interview, it'd be late-period, unfunny, reading-court-filings-from-the-stage Lenny Bruce.

Mr. Lottz, may I attempt to help you out a bit?

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

CONTROVERSIAL MIRROR REMOVED FROM AWARD-WINNING BAR/CLUB

Owner cites eagerness to "move on" from "distraction"

June 3, 2015/BERWYN, Ill. After a month of social-media notoriety and unwarranted criticism, the owner of Cigars and Stripes has removed a two-way mirror from its ladies' room.

The mirror has been installed in the Berwyn bar and club since the early 2000s without incident, says owner Ronnie Lottz. But a YouTube video posted by a performer in late April drew mass attention to the establishment, and many commenters leveled false accusations of anonymous surveillance and exploitation.

In response, Lottz permanently removed the mirror last night without fanfare, saying, "It's important that we move on, for my sake, for my family's sake, and for the sake of Cigars and Stripes."

Lottz stresses that the Berwyn Police Department inspected Cigars and Stripes shortly after the mirror attracted media notice and found no evidence of wrongdoing. "I think it is reprehensible that people heard a story and assumed the worst about me. This has become an unhealthy distraction."

"But I completely understand---I repeat, I completely understand---that the very existence of the mirror can make women feel uncomfortable. I don't want one woman walking into Cigars and Stripes feeling concerned that they will be disrespected in any way."

Lottz initially told journalists that he would refuse to remove the mirror under any circumstance. Explaining his change in attitude, Lottz says, "This is about more than just me. This is about my family, which has had to endure weeks of threats and hateful comments. This is about Berwyn, a community I love. And this is about my patrons, who come here to have some great barbeque, have the best drinks in town, and watch the best entertainers in the Chicago area."

"Now that the mirror has been removed, I invite anybody who has had their doubts about Cigars and Stripes to give us a chance," Lottz says. "I promise you won't be disappointed."

-30-

[Ronnie Lottz]

Cigars and Stripes BBQ OFFICIAL PRESS RELEASE located in the link below.

http://www.prnewschannel.com/2015/06/01/chicago-bar-owner-associated-with-ladies-room-two-way-mirror-reflects-in-new-youtube-video/

In the future please refrain from posting press releases that are not directly from Cigars & Stripes marketing department. Thank you for your input. It sheds a bit of light on this unfortunate situation.

The political, sexual, or religious views of any outside, hired part-time entertainer and or patron posts to their personal social media outlets does not represent the views of Cigars & Stripes or Mr.Ronnie Lottz in anyway shape or form whatsoever.

Thank you for your concern

S. Goldberg & Assoc.
B.Hiatt

720 LCS 135/

3054

6/3/15

[OakParkSpartan]

And it is resolved.

Now the dude from DC can stop ranting about a Berwyn business.

[markberwyn]

Nothing is resolved; the mirror is still up, and Ronnie Lottz has been slinging promises that he'll be taking the mirror down for weeks now. His sanctimonious fundraising drive on behalf of cyberbullying is almost certainly eyewash as well. Which particular charity is he raising money for? Has he named it yet? Can I send my check directly to "B.Hiatt" of "S. Goldberg & Assoc."?

I can see, though, why an old-school Berwynite and Ronnie Lottz apologist would want the conversation to stop.

[Gaetane]

Actually Mr. MarkBerwyn, it has been very entertaining to watch, so let it roll.  I wish I had as much time on my hands as you seem to have dedicated to your anti-Lotz campaign.  Although I would probably spend it differently, you know, work, home, family......  Now, back to that mirror!

[Ronnie Lottz]

Per guidance of legal counsel,
I Ronn Lottz president of Cigars and Stripes BBQ on June 4th of 2015,

I am publicly requesting for the removal and or name change of the post
"Cigars and Stripes Toilet Peep Show".
It reasonably at this point has superseded the grey areas of internet defamation.

[markberwyn]

Oh brother.

[moose]

Technically, the name of the post is "Cigars and Stripes toilet peep show?", so the post he is asking to be removed doesn't exist!!

[markberwyn]

I think Ronnie Lottz deserves some praise for his recent actions. Not for his refusal to take down the mirror---that's still reprehensible. But he should be praised for firing Iron Balls McArthur, who's pretty displeased in this video. Though he doesn't name Lottz or Cigars & Stripes, it's pretty clear who he's talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deLj8M9Nx-w

(Please note that there are some vile anti-Semitic jokes halfway through.)

Iron Balls is also expressing his displeasure on Facebook (which he calls "Jewbook").

[markberwyn]

(I didn't intend for this thread to become a proof of Godwin's Law, but there it is.)