Mraz Park Fountain Dedication, Sunday, June 8 2008

[OakParkSpartan]

I don't think it was the BPD's job to run it bast the Historic Preservation Commission, just as it wouldn't be yours or mine to know that a demo permit should have been passed in front of them (I'm not even sure if that was in the ordinance or not).

IMHO, BPD bought the building, a demo permit was applied for...at this point, the Building Dept. SHOULD forward that request to the Historic Preservation committee (actually, the committee should have a list compiled that the Building Dept. could consult right off the bat before forwarding), the HPC then blesses the demo, Building Dept puts communication before city council, and Council has the final word.

In this case, it was only after the fact that the BPD became aware that the building had some significance.  Council had the chance to stop things right off the bat, when the demo was first placed on the agenda, and chose to let demolition proceed.  Council was asked a second time to grant additional time before the demo took place, and they again declined.

I think the way things worked out left the BHS in a more financially secure position than trying to save one property.  It sucks it will come down, but in the scheme of things, I don't know that the loss of 1 obscure building is more important than the slow destruction of bungalows when they have pop tops placed upon them, for instance.

[ZORBA]

That's the key though-why 90 days? who dtermines this frame?

Maybe it is enough time.

Then again, maybe it isn't.

Nonetheless, it seems more like an ultimatum than a sincere effort to work with the BHS on the preservation matter.

You know, let's all work together to keep BERWYN MOVING FORWARD.

[Berwyn100]

By the way Mr. Janda.  The fountian and park look absolutely amazing!  I would be even more delighted if I had a house right there.  The BPD should be commended for what you have done with Mraz Park. 

[Paul Fuentes]

That's the key though-why 90 days? who dtermines this frame?

Maybe it is enough time.

Then again, maybe it isn't.

Nonetheless, it seems more like an ultimatum than a sincere effort to work with the BHS on the preservation matter.

You know, let's all work together to keep BERWYN MOVING FORWARD.

I truly believe this discussion needs to die on this forum.  Your incessant and repetitive shouts serve no one ( nor do mine).  And although you keep denying that you do not accuse anyone, it is clear (as in crystal) to everyone where you lie on the issue, as it is with me. 

So therefore, put your money where your mouth is. Now correct me at any point I am wrong:

1.  This thread seems to be especially important for you considering how much you dedicate to it.
2.  You have previously stated that, although you reside outside Berwyn, you have a unique and special interest in what happens here.
3.  You are an attorney. I am an attorney.
4.  The content of your posts on this thread indicates that some injustice has occurred.

Therefore, given the above, fulfill the persona you portray yourself to be.  Agree to devote your time pro bono and take this discussion/dispute outside this forum and advocate your positions/issues/questions in forums where it really matters.  I will do the same on behalf of my side.

Nuff Said

END OF DISCUSSION. 

P.S.  This goes to any members of SILK's jury.

[ZORBA]

Incessant and repetitive shouts?

I commented on this thread AFTER you. YOU'RE the guy that came out swinging in response to Bonster. Check the posts again I didn't accuse anyone of anything. I certainly didn't single any individual ut like some others I simply opined that the BPD had an ethical obligation to work a little more closely with the BHS on this one.

And you're envisioning a court battle with jurors? What a vivid imagination you have, especially when I've conceded there was nothing unlawful in what the BPD did.

LOL!!!

Buenos Noches Senor Fuentes

[OakParkSpartan]

That's the key though-why 90 days? who dtermines this frame?

Maybe it is enough time.

Then again, maybe it isn't.

Nonetheless, it seems more like an ultimatum than a sincere effort to work with the BHS on the preservation matter.

You know, let's all work together to keep BERWYN MOVING FORWARD.

In 90 days, could you come up with an estimate of ANY of the costs involved in moving a home?  Not precise costs, but a decent estimate.  I think you could.  The proposal put forward to the park district had a lot of "could's" in it.  I don't think it contained ANY firm numbers...no budget whatsoever.  The park board stated at their meeting that was a sticking point.  The proposal also didn't have any timeline in it.  At the very least, you could do a timeline that indicated the number of days for each task, what had dependencies etc.  Basic project management 101.

The park board was also skeptical of getting city council to go along with the plan, despite the mayor's assurances.  That was a topic of discussion during the meeting as well.

The commissioner who had the biggest hardon to tear the house down was Ed Karacek.  He wanted to vote right then and there to proceed with demolition.  The other commissioners had to inform him that because it wasn't on the agenda, it was not permissible to vote on it.  More residents need to attend these meetings and see just who they elected...change is good.

[ZORBA]

Brian,

I knew about Karasek.

Now with respect to the substantive issue, you're asking for approximations, but then saying the park district wasn't satisfied with approximations and asking for firm numbers.  Which one is it?

btw, what about the Life article indicating that a new home had indeed been found for the Sears home?

Lastly, who had inventoried the house?

p.s. do you sincerely believe the pd did what it could to save the house? Be honest.

[Bonster]

I truly believe this discussion needs to die on this forum. 

It needs to die on this THREAD about the Mraz Park Fountain!

[rbain]

[
I truly believe this discussion needs to die on this forum.  Your incessant and repetitive shouts serve no one ( nor do mine).  And although you keep denying that you do not accuse anyone, it is clear (as in crystal) to everyone where you lie on the issue, as it is with me. 

If this were the criteria for ending a discussion, the board would be pretty quite...

-Rob

[OakParkSpartan]

Brian,

I knew about Karasek.

Now with respect to the substantive issue, you're asking for approximations, but then saying the park district wasn't satisfied with approximations and asking for firm numbers.  Which one is it?

btw, what about the Life article indicating that a new home had indeed been found for the Sears home?

Lastly, who had inventoried the house?

p.s. do you sincerely believe the pd did what it could to save the house? Be honest.

Silk,

I was at the meeting where the proposal was presented.  It was a lot of could's and mights.  There weren't any estimates nor timelines in the proposal.

One of the items was that the city would pay for hooking up utilities and (I might be incorrect on this point) paying for site prep.  Given the state of the city finances, do you really think council would have approved those expenditures?  The mayor was questioned on this very point.

When I say approximations, I mean "It will cost approximately $10,000 for a new foundation and take 10 days to complete" or "moving the house will cost between $25-30,000".  Numbers were not to be found in the proposal. 

I wonder why none of the nearby vacant lots were acceptable to either move to or swap in exchange for the house?

[Paul Fuentes]

Brian,

  The only name that was brought up by me was that of Frank Amaro, who happens to be on the board in question, only for the purpose of answering a question that was posed as to why Paul was doing the fighting (online at least) for the BPD.  Nowhere in my post did I insult Frank Amaro.  I actually can't say anything about the man because I do not know him.  I actually have not or can't really say anything negative about the BPD because this whole situation was a mess from the beginning.  It is a tough situation from all sides.  The whole reason I even posted in this thread was because of the way I viewed Paul's posts as insulting to the BHS.  So for you to come in here and bash ME without reading closely is rather disingenuous.  But expected as well.
 
  There is something about the Internet that makes it easy for one not to like someone because of the way they conduct themselves online.  I have tried to make it a point to stay off the Internet because of this very thing.  Paul is one of those people to me.  He might be a swell guy in real life, but from what I have read here it does not seem to be the case.  The same might be said about myself or a number of others here so that's that I guess. 

  As far as the process that should be in place regarding the Historic Preservation Commission, the survey is not complete as far as I know as well, but since it is a big undertaking to inventory an entire city's (at least one as big as Berwyn's) structures, why couldn't the BPD just run it past them?   

  Brian, I will be brutally honest with you.  I am not sure I was even 100% in agreement with the stance that the BHS took on this whole matter.  The organization does have more important matters to deal with in my opinion.  I also agree that it is a relief that they did not spend a bunch of money on this house.  The thing that bugs me the most is that the various boards, organizations, etc., cannot get on the same page in this city.  This was a totally avoidable situation which could have been prevented.  Now I am sure there are people on both sides which will have ill feelings towards one another which will make it difficult for some future project/issue as a result of the outcome of this situation. 

Do Not Get Confused

I know who you are and you know who I am.

And you know, or should know, i have no problem meeting u or anyone else face to face.

I post by my own name so I am not that hard to find.


Chuckie

[Berwyn100]

I am not confused Paul. 

Maybe it is the fact that I blew my nose this afternoon, which held more importiance than meeting with you. 

You and many others here know where to find me as well. 

Im not that far actually.  Just a drunkin stupor close walk for some. 

-Jose Cuervo