Enough is Enough

[mustang54]

  The scandals in our government and the cover ups of them are getting to be a little bit too much. Now for me it has hit the boiling point. People who risked their lives for us have died because some greedy money hungry bastards employed by one of our government agencies would not give them appointments so they could earn bonuses. It's time for some real freaking action. None of these bullshit capital hill investigations where both sides yell at someone in front of the cameras and in the end do NOTHING to them.
  This matter should be turned over to the FBI and people should be brought up on criminal charges. Fraud and manslaughter or murder. Firing the incompetent fool Obama hired to head the V A won't do shit. It's more political eye candy by a worthless president. Didn't Bush get rid of this guy from a top postion years ago? IRS,NSA now the V A. This country is becoming one big cluster fuck! So far they say they have found 40 veterans have died because of these greedy morons. I would bet there are plenty more. Uncle Sam is going to get sued big time, and he deserves it! But no one in Washington will care it ain't their money.

[pkd50]

Ditto to what he said so well! 

[markberwyn]

A shame that Republicans in Congress are more concerned about four people killed in Libya two years ago.

[MRS. NORTHSIDER]

A shame that Republicans in Congress are more concerned about four people killed in Libya two years ago.

They are both instances of shame for this administration.  Which one is more shameful?  The fact that this administration left soldiers stranded in Libya and they were killed or the fact that veterans are not receiving the benefits they are entitled to in a timely manner.  The end result is death that has been documented in one case for the soldiers in Libya or death down the road for many of our veterans if this situation is not rectified.  It appears it is being rectified and hopefully there will be very few deaths as a result.   It certainly doesn't diminish what happened in Libya, to me it amplifies it.  We don't leave our soldiers behind, anytime or anywhere, alive or dead.

[mustang54]

  Three more things really are bugging me about this situation. First I don't like the V A being put in charge to investigate itself. The FBI should handle it. Another thing that's bothering me is that in the presidents speech about the head of the VA stepping down he said he had heard this was going on when he was an Illinois senator! 1. He was stupid enough to admit that and two if he knew it then why hasn't he done anything about it since he was the freaking president for 6 years!!! And now to try and cover up more corrupt bullshit under HIS WATCH he tries to be a hero again with vets and trades 5 very dangerous terrorists from Gitmo for a traitor who went awol. Oh I forgot it isn't working and Ms Susan Rice lied again on a Sunday talk show calling this traitor a hero, so now lets talk about global warming again. Oh by the way six brave soldiers were killed looking for this creep when he went awol.

[markberwyn]

  Three more things really are bugging me about this situation. First I don't like the V A being put in charge to investigate itself. The FBI should handle it.

I don't believe statistics that are put together by the FBI. To me they have been a complete failure in law enforcement in troubled areas of Chicago and other major cities. They prefer to investigate those who don't shoot back it's safer.  Street gangs are the largest organized crime groups in this country. The FBI are as big a joke to me as the U.S Justice Department, the IRS, the DEA and the NSA. All liars, bullshitters, and some are even criminals.

[markberwyn]

A shame that Republicans in Congress are more concerned about four people killed in Libya two years ago.

They are both instances of shame for this administration.  Which one is more shameful?  The fact that this administration left soldiers stranded in Libya and they were killed or the fact that veterans are not receiving the benefits they are entitled to in a timely manner.  The end result is death that has been documented in one case for the soldiers in Libya or death down the road for many of our veterans if this situation is not rectified.  It appears it is being rectified and hopefully there will be very few deaths as a result.   It certainly doesn't diminish what happened in Libya, to me it amplifies it.  We don't leave our soldiers behind, anytime or anywhere, alive or dead.

What happened in Benghazi, exactly, and what did the President do wrong that merits investigation? Please explain this in one sentence.

[mustang54]

  I must add since the president admitted to knowing about the V A scam since he was a senator and doing nothing about it as a senator or as president he should be the first person that the families should file a wrongfull death suit against. I know if it was my father or a member of my family I would.

[markberwyn]

  I must add since the president admitted to knowing about the V A scam since he was a senator and doing nothing about it as a senator or as president he should be the first person that the families should file a wrongfull death suit against. I know if it was my father or a member of my family I would.

Would the FBI represent the plaintiffs? Would the FBI investigate first, or would this happen after the FBI completes its investigation? Just trying to understand how your whackadoodle plan for justice is going to go.

Anyway, here's what the president actually said, lest anybody start taking mustang54's blithering seriously:

Well, I will leave it up to the Justice Department to make determinations in terms of whether there's been criminal wrongdoing.

In terms of responsibility, as I've said before, this is my administration; I always take responsibility for whatever happens, and this is an area that I have a particular concern with. This predates my presidency. When I was in the Senate, I was on the Veterans Affairs Committee. I heard first-hand veterans who were not getting the kinds of services and benefits that they had earned.


And I pledged that if I had the privilege of serving as commander-in-chief and president, that we would fix it. The VA is a big organization that has had problems for a very long time -- in some cases, management problems, and in some cases, funding problems.

And so what we've tried to do is to systemically go after the problems that we were aware of and fix them. And where we we have seen our veterans not being properly served -- whether it was too many homeless veterans or a disability claims process that was taking too long, we would go at it and chip away at it and fix it.

When it came to funding, we've increased funding for VA services in an unprecedented fashion because we understood that it's not enough just to give lip service to our veterans but not being willing to put our money where our mouth is.

And so, what I can say confidently is that this has been a priority. It's been a priority reflected in my budget, and that in terms of managing the VA, where we have seen a problem -- where we have been aware of a problem, we have gone after it and fixed it and have been able to make significant progress.

But what is absolutely clear is, this one -- this issue of scheduling is one that the reporting systems inside of the VHA did not surface to the level where Rick (sp) was aware of it we were able to see it. This was not something that we were hearing when I was traveling around the country, the particular issue of scheduling. And what we're going to have to do -- part of the review is going to have to be -- to see, how do we make sure that we get information about systems that aren't working?

You know, I just was talking to Rob Nabors, and he described to me, for example, just, in very specific detail, how, in some of these facilities, you've got computer systems for scheduling that date back to the '90s, situations in which one scheduler might have to look at four or five different screens to figure out where there's a slot and where there might be a doctor available, situations in which they're manually passing requests for an appointment over to someone else who's inputting them, right?


So you have in many cases old systems, broken-down systems. This is stuff that is imminently fixable, but we've got to know about it. And you know, the big concern that I've got and what I'm going to be interested in finding out is, you know, how is it that in a number of these facilities, if in fact you have veterans who are waiting too long for an appointment, that that information didn't surface sooner, so that we could go ahead and fix it.

One last point I want to make on this: When veterans have gotten access to the system, the health care itself that they are receiving has gotten high marks from our veterans service organizations and the veterans themselves. So I think it's important to keep in mind that what the review indicates so far, at least, is that there have been great strides made in the actual care provided to veterans. The challenge is getting veterans into the door, particularly for their first appointment, in some cases, and where they don't have an established relationship with a doctor, and they're not in the system.

Part of that's going to be technology. Part of that is management. But as Ric Shinseki himself indicated, there is a need for a change in culture within the VHA and perhaps the VHA as a whole -- or the VA as a whole that makes sure that bad news gets surfaced quickly, so that things can be fixed.

And I know that was the attitude of Secretary Shinseki, and that was the -- what he communicated to folks under him, but they didn't execute, and that's a problem.

[MRS. NORTHSIDER]

  I must add since the president admitted to knowing about the V A scam since he was a senator and doing nothing about it as a senator or as president he should be the first person that the families should file a wrongfull death suit against. I know if it was my father or a member of my family I would.

Would the FBI represent the plaintiffs? Would the FBI investigate first, or would this happen after the FBI completes its investigation? Just trying to understand how your whackadoodle plan for justice is going to go.

Anyway, here's what the president actually said, lest anybody start taking mustang54's blithering seriously:

Well, I will leave it up to the Justice Department to make determinations in terms of whether there's been criminal wrongdoing.

In terms of responsibility, as I've said before, this is my administration; I always take responsibility for whatever happens, and this is an area that I have a particular concern with. This predates my presidency. When I was in the Senate, I was on the Veterans Affairs Committee. I heard first-hand veterans who were not getting the kinds of services and benefits that they had earned.


And I pledged that if I had the privilege of serving as commander-in-chief and president, that we would fix it. The VA is a big organization that has had problems for a very long time -- in some cases, management problems, and in some cases, funding problems.

And so what we've tried to do is to systemically go after the problems that we were aware of and fix them. And where we we have seen our veterans not being properly served -- whether it was too many homeless veterans or a disability claims process that was taking too long, we would go at it and chip away at it and fix it.

When it came to funding, we've increased funding for VA services in an unprecedented fashion because we understood that it's not enough just to give lip service to our veterans but not being willing to put our money where our mouth is.

And so, what I can say confidently is that this has been a priority. It's been a priority reflected in my budget, and that in terms of managing the VA, where we have seen a problem -- where we have been aware of a problem, we have gone after it and fixed it and have been able to make significant progress.

But what is absolutely clear is, this one -- this issue of scheduling is one that the reporting systems inside of the VHA did not surface to the level where Rick (sp) was aware of it we were able to see it. This was not something that we were hearing when I was traveling around the country, the particular issue of scheduling. And what we're going to have to do -- part of the review is going to have to be -- to see, how do we make sure that we get information about systems that aren't working?

You know, I just was talking to Rob Nabors, and he described to me, for example, just, in very specific detail, how, in some of these facilities, you've got computer systems for scheduling that date back to the '90s, situations in which one scheduler might have to look at four or five different screens to figure out where there's a slot and where there might be a doctor available, situations in which they're manually passing requests for an appointment over to someone else who's inputting them, right?


So you have in many cases old systems, broken-down systems. This is stuff that is imminently fixable, but we've got to know about it. And you know, the big concern that I've got and what I'm going to be interested in finding out is, you know, how is it that in a number of these facilities, if in fact you have veterans who are waiting too long for an appointment, that that information didn't surface sooner, so that we could go ahead and fix it.

One last point I want to make on this: When veterans have gotten access to the system, the health care itself that they are receiving has gotten high marks from our veterans service organizations and the veterans themselves. So I think it's important to keep in mind that what the review indicates so far, at least, is that there have been great strides made in the actual care provided to veterans. The challenge is getting veterans into the door, particularly for their first appointment, in some cases, and where they don't have an established relationship with a doctor, and they're not in the system.

Part of that's going to be technology. Part of that is management. But as Ric Shinseki himself indicated, there is a need for a change in culture within the VHA and perhaps the VHA as a whole -- or the VA as a whole that makes sure that bad news gets surfaced quickly, so that things can be fixed.

And I know that was the attitude of Secretary Shinseki, and that was the -- what he communicated to folks under him, but they didn't execute, and that's a problem.

You know what is really the biggest problem here - that you take this man's word as if it was the word of some type of deity.  Actually, he is only a man.

[markberwyn]

You know what is really the biggest problem here - that you take this man's word as if it was the word of some type of deity.  Actually, he is only a man.

Oh stop. My point was that mustang54 was lying. The president never said he knew about the current scandal years ago; what he said was he was aware of dysfunction at the VA when he served on the Veterans Affairs Committee. Saying you're aware of dysfunction at the VA has long been the equivalent of saying you're aware the sky is blue.

If it comforts you, though, go ahead and contact a grieving military family and tell them they should spend their time, energy, and money suing the president.

[mustang54]

  Again this jagoff calls me a liar. I know what I heard watching it live on CNN. The words that came out of his mouth are not the same as the printed quote the partisan fool of BTF posted. This president could walk up to someone on the street shoot him in the head and this guy would stick up for him. Get a clue pinhead.
"When I was in the senate " was NOT what I heard him say. I remember it being "When I was a senator from Illinois." So I don't believe the typed version. Like when he had lunch with his Benghazi failure and coverup partner last week and it was tweeted by the media she was there it was deleted from twitter in 3 seconds. Don't think I'm the liar here. The media jumps when he says so.
 

[markberwyn]

  Again this jagoff calls me a liar. I know what I heard watching it live on CNN. The words that came out of his mouth are not the same as the printed quote the partisan fool of BTF posted. This president could walk up to someone on the street shoot him in the head and this guy would stick up for him. Get a clue pinhead.
"When I was in the senate " was NOT what I heard him say. I remember it being "When I was a senator from Illinois." So I don't believe the typed version. Like when he had lunch with his Benghazi failure and coverup partner last week and it was tweeted by the media she was there it was deleted from twitter in 3 seconds. Don't think I'm the liar here. The media jumps when he says so.

Get your hearing checked, big guy. Relevant portion starts at 10:40; hews to the transcript.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sO_15nXvvc

[Mr. Daniel Lumis]

Whenever someone yells about "Benghazi!" I imagine their lips are all orange from eating too much Gerber carrot mash, a plastic cup with chew marks all stained with some kind of fruit juice, and a squeeze-toy suction-cupped to their meal tray.


But that's just me.

[markberwyn]

Whenever someone yells about "Benghazi!" I imagine their lips are all orange from eating too much Gerber carrot mash, a plastic cup with chew marks all stained with some kind of fruit juice, and a squeeze-toy suction-cupped to their meal tray.


But that's just me.

No point arguing with angry conservatives about this. As mustang54 just proved quite beautifully, they hear what they want to hear regardless of the actual facts.

[MRS. NORTHSIDER]

Whenever someone yells about "Benghazi!" I imagine their lips are all orange from eating too much Gerber carrot mash, a plastic cup with chew marks all stained with some kind of fruit juice, and a squeeze-toy suction-cupped to their meal tray.


But that's just me.

No point arguing with angry conservatives about this. As mustang54 just proved quite beautifully, they hear what they want to hear regardless of the actual facts.

Right back at you with the same statement except we can substitute "indignatious liberals" for "angry conservatives".  Six of one and a half dozen of the other except, of course, you are always right in your own mind. 

[markberwyn]

Whenever someone yells about "Benghazi!" I imagine their lips are all orange from eating too much Gerber carrot mash, a plastic cup with chew marks all stained with some kind of fruit juice, and a squeeze-toy suction-cupped to their meal tray.


But that's just me.

No point arguing with angry conservatives about this. As mustang54 just proved quite beautifully, they hear what they want to hear regardless of the actual facts.

Right back at you with the same statement except we can substitute "indignatious liberals" for "angry conservatives".  Six of one and a half dozen of the other except, of course, you are always right in your own mind.

What facts am I ignoring or rejecting, do you think? I've been called a bunch of names on this thread, but nobody has explained to me what important information I ought to be thinking about.

[Mr. Daniel Lumis]

Whenever someone yells about "Benghazi!" I imagine their lips are all orange from eating too much Gerber carrot mash, a plastic cup with chew marks all stained with some kind of fruit juice, and a squeeze-toy suction-cupped to their meal tray.


But that's just me.

No point arguing with angry conservatives about this. As mustang54 just proved quite beautifully, they hear what they want to hear regardless of the actual facts.

Right back at you with the same statement except we can substitute "indignatious liberals" for "angry conservatives".  Six of one and a half dozen of the other except, of course, you are always right in your own mind.

The offensiveosity of this thread is starting to angerify my normalatious state of relaxeriforous calmosity.

[markberwyn]

This thread is also another useful example of another bit of angry-conservative rhetoric, which is that if you do not think the president is the worst thing to happen in the history of America, then you must think he is a god. You are not permitted to have a nuanced view of the president.

[Ted]

  I always thought the VA was a good example of government run health care (until recently).  My dad was a WWII veteran and he used the VA his entire life.  He passed away at the VA hospitol at Roosevelt and 1st Avenue.

But, I think the recent events gives credence to arguments against direct government run health providing.