Most interesting items are TIF allocations for Michael Anthony ($7K) and Cigar's and Stripes ($43K); a $132K HVAC cost on the fire station at Gunderson & Windsor; the city's audit report and a request to hire 3 police officers:
Why does Michael Anthony get only $7K of TIF money while its pizza competitor right down the street (Paison's) got over $750K in TIF money and it competes with Michael Anthony? Doesn't seem very fair.
BERWYN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
JULY 10, 2012
DEAR ATTENDEE.....THE MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL WELCOME YOU. PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT THIS IS A MEETING OF THE MAYOR AND COUNCIL MEMBERS AS OPPOSED TO A PUBLIC HEARING WHERE ATTENDEES ARE ENCOURAGED TO PARTICIPATE. UNLESS INVITED BY THE MAYOR TO SPEAK, YOU ARE REQUESTED NOT TO INTERRUPT. IF YOU ARE RECOGNIZED BY THE MAYOR, PLEASE PREFACE YOUR REMARKS BY STATING YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD. THANK YOU.
ROBERT J. LOVERO THOMAS J. PAVLIK
MAYOR CITY CLERK
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AGENDA
ROLL CALL
(A) PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE - MOMENT OF SILENCE
(B) OPEN FORUM - (TOPIC MUST NOT BE ON THE AGENDA)
(C) PRESENTATION OF PREVIOUS MEETINGS MINUTES FOR APPROVAL
1. REGULAR MEETING 6/24/12 - COW-6/24/12
(D) BID OPENING–TABULATIONS
(E) BERWYN DEVELOPMENT CORP.-BERWYN TOWNSHIP/HEALTH DISTRICT
1. BDC-TIF APPLICATION-MICHAEL ANTHONY'S, 6434 OGDEN AVE.
2. BDC-TIF APPLICATION-CIGARS AND STRIPES, 6715 OGDEN AVE.
(F) REPORTS AND COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE MAYOR
(G) REPORTS AND COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE CITY CLERK
1. APPOINTMENT AND SWEARING IN OF NEW DEPUTY CLERK-RUTH WASIUKIEWICZ
2. APPROVAL OF CLOSED COW MINUTES OF-3/27/12, 4/10/12, 4/12/12 & 6/12/12
3. RIDE FOR LIBERTY 2012
(H) COMMUNICATIONS FROM (ZONING) BOARD OF APPEALS
(I) REPORTS AND COMMUNICATIONS FROM ALDERMEN, COMMITTEES OTHER BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS
(J) STAFF REPORTS
1. POLICE CHIEF-REQUEST TO HIRE THREE (3) POLICE OFFICERS
2. PROJECT OPERATIONS MANAGER-CONTRACT AWARD -CLEANING EXISTING HVAC AT SOUTH FIRE STATION-6436 WINDSOR AVENUE
3. FINANCE DIR- 2011 (CAFR) COMPREHENSIVE ANNUAL FINANCIAL REPORT BERWYN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
(K) CONSENT AGENDA: ALL ITEMS ON THE CONSENT AGENDA ARE CONSIDERED TO BE ROUTINE IN NATURE AND WILL BE ENACTED IN ONE MOTION. THERE WILL BE NO SEPARATE DISCUSSION OF THESE ITEMS UNLESS A COUNCIL MEMBER SO REQUESTS, IN WHICH EVENT THE ITEM WILL BE REMOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA AND CONSIDERED AS THE FIRST ITEM AFTER
APPROVAL OF THE CONSENT AGENDA
1. BUDGET CHAIR-PAYROLL-7/3/12-$1,082,742.63
2. BUDGET CHAIR-PAYABLES-7/10/12-$1,488,932.66
3. BUILDING DEPT.-BUILDING AND LOCAL IMPROVEMENT PERMITS FOR
4. BLOCK PARTY-3200 BLOCK OF HOME – 7/28/12-RAIN DATE 7/29/12
5. BLOCK PARTY-1400 BLOCK OF CUYLER AVE- 8/18/12-RAIN DATE 8/25/12
6. BLOCK PARTY-1600 BLOCK OF HOME – 7/28/12-RAIN DATE-8/4/12
7. BLOCK PARTY-1600 BLOCK OF CLINTON-7/21/12-RAIN DATE-7/28/12
8. BLOCK PARTY-3400 BLOCK OF HOME-7/21/12-RAIN DATE-7/22/12
9. BLOCK PARTY-1800 BLOCK OF CLINTON-7/28/12-RAIN DATE-8/4/12
10. BLOCK GARAGE SALE-1800 BLOCK OF CLINTON-7/14/12 & 7/15/12
11. ST MICHAEL AND ALL ANGELS RUMMAGE SALE-7/7/12 & 7/8/12
12. ST. LEONARD 3rd ANNUAL BLOCKTOBERFEAST-10/6/12-8:30-10:00 PM-RAIN
DATE 10/7/12-8:30 AM TO 10:00 PM
13. NEWLIFE COMMUNITY CHURCH-YEARLY RUMMAGE SALE-1900 S.
OAK PARK-8/4/12-9:00AM TO 4:00PM
14. LECTURA MONTESSORI SCHOOL-GARAGE SALE-7/7/12
15. BLOCK PARTY-1900 BLOCK OF HARVEY-7/21/12
ITEMS SUBMITTED ON TIME 24
______________________________
THOMAS J. PAVLIK - CITY CLERK
In accordance with the provisions of the Americans with disabilities Act, any individual who is in the need of a reasonable accommodation in order to participate in or benefit from attendance at a public meeting of the City of Berwyn should contact Thomas J. Pavlik, City Clerk at 708/788-2660 as soon as possible before the meeting date.
Maybe because the project won't cost that much?
I hope you aren't suggesting more money should be given to Michael Anthony's just because somewhere down the street got 100x's as much...Come to think of it, I think that WAS what you suggested!
Why does Michael Anthony get only $7K of TIF money while its pizza competitor right down the street (Paison's) got over $750K in TIF money and it competes with Michael Anthony? Doesn't seem very fair.
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on July 08, 2012, 02:47:42 PM
Maybe because the project won't cost that much?
I hope you aren't suggesting more money should be given to Michael Anthony's just because somewhere down the street got 100x's as much...Come to think of it, I think that WAS what you suggested!
Why else? It's a conspiracy. ::)
Quote from: SimplyBerwyn on July 08, 2012, 03:33:34 PM
Why does Michael Anthony get only $7K of TIF money while its pizza competitor right down the street (Paison's) got over $750K in TIF money and it competes with Michael Anthony? Doesn't seem very fair.
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on July 08, 2012, 02:47:42 PM
Maybe because the project won't cost that much?
I hope you aren't suggesting more money should be given to Michael Anthony's just because somewhere down the street got 100x's as much...Come to think of it, I think that WAS what you suggested!
Why else? It's a conspiracy. ::)
One in which Frankie Marzullo plays a sinister role! :666:
Quote from: berwynguy on July 08, 2012, 05:11:51 PM
Quote from: SimplyBerwyn on July 08, 2012, 03:33:34 PM
Why does Michael Anthony get only $7K of TIF money while its pizza competitor right down the street (Paison's) got over $750K in TIF money and it competes with Michael Anthony? Doesn't seem very fair.
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on July 08, 2012, 02:47:42 PM
Maybe because the project won't cost that much?
I hope you aren't suggesting more money should be given to Michael Anthony's just because somewhere down the street got 100x's as much...Come to think of it, I think that WAS what you suggested!
Why else? It's a conspiracy. ::)
One in which Frankie Marzullo plays a sinister role! :666:
Of course! ;)
No, I am not suggesting Michael Anthony should get more money.
My point is this - Michael Anthony's tax dollars have been going into the Ogden TIF since the TIF's inception. Yet, its tax dollars were then used so that a competitor could open up down the street, to the tune of over $750K.
That is what doesn't seem fair.
Quote from: Ted on July 09, 2012, 06:19:33 AM
No, I am not suggesting Michael Anthony should get more money.
My point is this - Michael Anthony's tax dollars have been going into the Ogden TIF since the TIF's inception. Yet, its tax dollars were then used so that a competitor could open up down the street, to the tune of over $750K.
That is what doesn't seem fair.
And so have a bunch of other businesses that haven't received money.
I'm not sure how the "fair" bit comes into play. Michael Anthony's has had the opportunity to apply for the funds before, they never did. Their choice.
"Fair" comes into play because Michael Anthony's tax dollars went to the opening up of a competitor down the street?
How would you like it if 20 years of tax dollars that you had paid were given to a competitor to compete with you?
Are grown adults really arguing that something isn't "fair"?!? Did your parents never teach you that life isn't fair?!?
I am sure michael anthony's is not the only berwyn business to pay into a TIF fund that has then used money to support a competitor. It's a 'free market' right?
Quote from: Ted on July 09, 2012, 08:23:06 AM
"Fair" comes into play because Michael Anthony's tax dollars went to the opening up of a competitor down the street?
How would you like it if 20 years of tax dollars that you had paid were given to a competitor to compete with you?
By that reasoning, TIF's should be done away with? Or should funds somehow be divided up?
How would you classify Michael Anthony's? A restaurant, a pizza joint, a bar? Since they compete with every other establishment, I think those would all be legitimate.
So you are basically advocating that car dealers pay for anything non-automotive, restaurants pay for non-food vendors. Now should be break it down to Mexican restaurants, Diners etc? You see where this is leading?
Michael Anthony's would have paid those taxes even if there was NOT a TIF in place.
Fair to one person is unfair to another.
Quote from: NYWREB on July 09, 2012, 08:30:09 AM
Are grown adults really arguing that something isn't "fair"?!? Did your parents never teach you that life isn't fair?!?
I am sure michael anthony's is not the only berwyn business to pay into a TIF fund that has then used money to support a competitor. It's a 'free market' right?
That's Ted's M.O. "It's not fair!" It's not fair that Bobby Lovero is mayor! It's not fair that OOT got TIF money twice! It's not fair that cops/fireman campaign for political candidates! It's not fair that Felix got promoted! It's not fair that no one likes me!
Ted, were you one of those kids that always "tied?" Did you get one of those "everybody wins" trophies when you played sports as a kid? Darwinism LOVES people like you. Whiners like you are the fuel that winners feed off of when they survive/get to the top while you become extinct.
Ted, when are you going to get this through your thick skull? This is a dog eat dog world. If someone sees a pile of TIF money available to the business who takes the time to apply for it, then the smart ones will go for it. If it's there why not? If you can have better job security if you're a cop or fireman by campaigning for the "in" politician who's gonna look out for you, then you do what you have to do. If you say that you wouldn't do it if you were in that position you are either full of shit or you have absolutely NO drive or ambition to ever move ahead. This is life pal. It isn't fair, and with things the way they are, people are going to do whatever they have to do if the end result benefits number one, get me? Is it bad? Is it good? It's just the way it is, so quit your crying.
Quote from: NYWREB on July 09, 2012, 08:30:09 AM
Are grown adults really arguing that something isn't "fair"?!? Did your parents never teach you that life isn't fair?!?
I am sure michael anthony's is not the only berwyn business to pay into a TIF fund that has then used money to support a competitor. It's a 'free market' right?
I agree that Life isn't fair. But, we're not talking about the vagueries of Life here. We're talking about tax dollars.
If I owned a business, I sure as heck wouldn't want to see my tax dollars be used to help a competitor open up down the street.
btw, would people be using the "life isn't fair" argument for someone like Todd Stroger hiring his cousins on to the Cook County payroll?
Is that another example of a "dog eat dog" world that we should just accept 'cuz that's just the way things are in Cook County?
life isn't fair in Illinois politics, so we should just accept patronage and nepotism and cronyism and political favoritism as it is?
Ted, let me ask you an honest question. If you were, let's say a Berwyn policeman and you lived in Plainfield, would you work campaigning for Lovero, O'Connor, or who ever if you knew you would have better job security and some "benefits" if your guy won? Please answer this question honestly.
Ted, here's a new tagline for your signature:
The Thugocracy still exists. It has never gone away and it will continue to exist as long as some disgruntled people work as cyber bullies, political operatives, and shills for the IVB and the remnants of Michael O'Connor failed administration. The same people who go out of their way to try and find fault and perceived problems with the Administration and city workers instead of working to make Berwyn better.
For the others out there who STILL don't get it after all these years, I have some homework for you. I know that some of you moved here from bum fuck where ever where the politics were supposedly as clean as a whistle. This may come as a shock to you, but "corrupt" politics didn't originate in Berwyn. Your idols that run the Democratic Party have been taught by a LONG line of masters at a game that isn't for the faint of heart. If you want to educate yourself on how this all started and continued over the past 140 years read these books in THIS order. These books sure opened up my eyes.
Lords of the Levee, 1943, Authors: Herman Kogan and Lloyd Wendt
Boss Cermak of Chicago; A Study of Political Leadership, 1962, Author: Alex Gottfried
Boss, Richard J. Daley of Chicago, 1972, Author: Mike Royko
Clout, Mayor Daley and His City, 1975, Author: Len O'Connor
Just because political corruption has been going on for a long time, doesn't make it right. Nor does it mean we need to pay for it.
Rape and slavery have been around for ages. Doesn't make that right either.
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on July 09, 2012, 03:06:11 PM
Just because political corruption has been going on for a long time, doesn't make it right. Nor does it mean we need to pay for it.
Rape and slavery have been around for ages. Doesn't make that right either.
Nope, it doesn't make it right, but anybody with half a brain knows that is isn't going to be solved on Berwyn Talk Forum, or ANYWHERE in Berwyn for that matter. These problems are systemic and bigger then Ted Korbus, you, or I.
Acting self righteous and sanctimonious doesn't make him, you, or anyone else morally superior to the rest of us. You are just as guilty as a "corrupt" policeman or fireman working the precincts for a politician, when you go into the voting booth and keep voting the same Illinois hacks in term after term.
Quote from: berwynguy on July 09, 2012, 03:03:08 PM
For the others out there who STILL don't get it after all these years, I have some homework for you. I know that some of you moved here from bum fuck where ever where the politics were supposedly as clean as a whistle. This may come as a shock to you, but "corrupt" politics didn't originate in Berwyn. Your idols that run the Democratic Party have been taught by a LONG line of masters at a game that isn't for the faint of heart. If you want to educate yourself on how this all started and continued over the past 140 years read these books in THIS order. These books sure opened up my eyes.
Lords of the Levee, 1943, Authors: Herman Kogan and Lloyd Wendt
Boss Cermak of Chicago; A Study of Political Leadership, 1962, Author: Alex Gottfried
Boss, Richard J. Daley of Chicago, 1972, Author: Mike Royko
Clout, Mayor Daley and His City, 1975, Author: Len O'Connor
All very good books.
Quote from: berwynguy on July 09, 2012, 03:11:46 PM
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on July 09, 2012, 03:06:11 PM
Just because political corruption has been going on for a long time, doesn't make it right. Nor does it mean we need to pay for it.
Rape and slavery have been around for ages. Doesn't make that right either.
Nope, it doesn't make it right, but anybody with half a brain knows that is isn't going to be solved on Berwyn Talk Forum, or ANYWHERE in Berwyn for that matter. These problems are systemic and bigger then Ted Korbus, you, or I.
Absolutely! Why should you bother trying to change things? That's stuff that people with half a brain do!
I remember once that there was a person here who was going to "change" things on this board by taking on news-reporting responsibilities that he felt were lacking in the Life. He reported on a robbery that happened, and he said it was committed by black men in ski masks. I asked how he knew the assailants were black if they were wearing ski masks. Holy smokes did this guy pitch a fit! He was all up in arms about having *any* questions asked of him, got all mad---behaved like a child, frankly---and never reported on crime in Berwyn again. (No loss---the Life had that story he was so certain it missed.) Sounds like a guy with half a brain to me!
You're boring Mark. Go and troll some other board that's based in Washington D.C.
Quote from: berwynguy on July 09, 2012, 05:12:14 PM
You're boring Mark. Go and troll some other board that's based in Washington D.C.
"troll"
Apparently my message that personal attacks need to be stopped has been forgotten.
Thanks in advance for your cooperation.
At least spell the name of the person you're attacking right.
Quote from: berwynguy on July 09, 2012, 03:03:08 PM
For the others out there who STILL don't get it after all these years, I have some homework for you. I know that some of you moved here from bum fuck where ever where the politics were supposedly as clean as a whistle. This may come as a shock to you, but "corrupt" politics didn't originate in Berwyn. Your idols that run the Democratic Party have been taught by a LONG line of masters at a game that isn't for the faint of heart. If you want to educate yourself on how this all started and continued over the past 140 years read these books in THIS order. These books sure opened up my eyes.
Lords of the Levee, 1943, Authors: Herman Kogan and Lloyd Wendt
Boss Cermak of Chicago; A Study of Political Leadership, 1962, Author: Alex Gottfried
Boss, Richard J. Daley of Chicago, 1972, Author: Mike Royko
Clout, Mayor Daley and His City, 1975, Author: Len O'Connor
It's a bit weird to browbeat people into reading these books and then deliver regular harangues about how nuthin' matters and what if it did, and how people should just shut up about trying to change the system. I think you've profoundly misread these books if that's what you've taken from them. I do hope people read Royko's "Boss," but ignore the lunkheaded interpretation that's being applied to it here.
For those who might like a book on Chicago that was written in the past three decades, I'd recommend Gary Krist's "City of Scoundrels," about 12 days in the life of Chicago in 1919, particularly the race riots. It's still an open question whether Richard J. Daley participated in the riots at the time, but he was a member of one of the Bridgeport gangs that beat up black people. I think history proves that important changes have happened since then, but if you're the kind of person who reads books of Chicago history and then agitates about how nothing changes, shut up, stop complaining, I have to wonder how much you privately wish that outsiders of all kinds get their heads tap-danced on. I'd wonder if you're a person who's a little immature, a little undereducated, and a lot scared.
I'm sorry, but your tired boring race stirring liberal bullshit is probably not going to get a bunch of support here. I have a sneaking suspicion that many people here don't sympathize with you.
I asked a question a while back that you avoided. I will ask it again because I met a couple of guys.......well, I'll just let you answer.
I was wondering how someone as "tolerant" as yourself made it through Lyons, a hot bed for brothels, bikers, hillbillies, and racists. I was just curious how you wound up so clean on the other side? Did you ever use the "n-word" Mark? How about any of your Lyons buddies? Did you sit them down at the swinging bridge and set them straight on the evils of racism and bigotry? Just curious.
Quote from: berwynguy on July 09, 2012, 06:11:14 PM
I'm sorry, but your tired boring race stirring liberal bullshit is probably not going to get a bunch of support here. I have a sneaking suspicion that many people here don't sympathize with you.
So? If people didn't sympathize with me, I wouldn't find it particularly indicative of anything.
Quote from: berwynguy on July 09, 2012, 06:11:14 PM
I asked a question a while back that you avoided. I will ask it again because I met a couple of guys.......well, I'll just let you answer.
I was wondering how someone as "tolerant" as yourself made it through Lyons, a hot bed for brothels, bikers, hillbillies, and racists. I was just curious how you wound up so clean on the other side? Did you ever use the "n-word" Mark? How about any of your Lyons buddies? Did you sit them down at the swinging bridge and set them straight on the evils of racism and bigotry? Just curious.
I didn't ignore the question. I just recognized this "question" for what it was---an unhappy person projecting his who-gives-a-shit unhappiness with life on me by implying that there's no possible way to rise above where one was raised. Just because you couldn't pull it off doesn't mean I feel obligated to help you feel better about it.
Mark, Mark, Mark. Please just answer the question.
I was wondering how someone as "tolerant" as yourself made it through Lyons, a hot bed for brothels, bikers, hillbillies, and racists. I was just curious how you wound up so clean on the other side? Did you ever use the "n-word" Mark? How about any of your Lyons buddies? Did you sit them down at the swinging bridge and set them straight on the evils of racism and bigotry? Just curious.
Quote from: berwynguy on July 09, 2012, 06:17:20 PM
Mark, Mark, Mark. Please just answer the question.
I was wondering how someone as "tolerant" as yourself made it through Lyons, a hot bed for brothels, bikers, hillbillies, and racists. I was just curious how you wound up so clean on the other side? Did you ever use the "n-word" Mark? How about any of your Lyons buddies? Did you sit them down at the swinging bridge and set them straight on the evils of racism and bigotry? Just curious.
I'm not here to help you feel better about yourself.
Veryyyyyyy interesting. Thank you Mark. I think BTF readers got their answer.
Quote from: berwynguy on July 09, 2012, 06:20:14 PM
Veryyyyyyy interesting. Thank you Mark. I think BTF readers got their answer.
Ah yes, I remember this: When you lose an argument on BTF, you imagine hordes of people agreeing with you, but keeping it to themselves.
Now, here's the big question. Is the administrator going to swoop in and defend me? He asked that personal attacks stop, and we have an individual who trolled his way into a thread and leveled several personal attacks at me including:
I have half a brain.
I'm a "lunkhead"
I'm "an unhappy person"
I'm "a person who's a little immature, a little undereducated, and a lot scared."
And my personal favorite....(drumroll)....I'm a RACIST. (The liberals equivalent to calling somebody a caca head. That's how effective that term has become.) When you lost your ability to disprove someones point, and all else fails, call them a racist. An accusation that is 1,000,000 miles away from what the original topic was about.
In a part of this thread I expressed my frustration with local politics and cited a few books that someone can read to learn how this whole twisted web evolved and I'm a RACIST. (Oh, and Mark says that Mayor Daley was a racist as well. Afterall, he was a member of the Hamburg Club and lived in Bridgeport during the 1919 race riot so he's a racist.)
So Brian, were any of Mark's personal attacks called for?
Quote from: berwynguy on July 09, 2012, 06:32:47 PM
And my personal favorite....(drumroll)....I'm a RACIST. (The liberals equivalent to calling somebody a caca head. That's how effective that term has become.) When you lost your ability to disprove someones point, and all else fails, call them a racist. An accusation that is 1,000,000 miles away from what the original topic was about.
You're the guy who said you can't live a normal life because you see black people at the North Riverside Park Mall, right?
Let's all take a moment to savor the notion of a person who lectures this board about life being unfair complain about how he's being treated unfairly.
Oh, I forgot to mention that the charge of racism was leveled at me by a hypocrite and "former" racist who "rose above where he was raised."
Quote from: berwynguy on July 09, 2012, 06:44:24 PM
Oh, I forgot to mention that the charge of racism was leveled at me by a hypocrite and "former" racist who "rose above where he was raised."
http://www.berwyntalk.com/smf/index.php?topic=2247.msg33210#msg33210 (http://www.berwyntalk.com/smf/index.php?topic=2247.msg33210#msg33210)
That's you, right, berwynguy?
Quote from: berwynguy on July 09, 2012, 06:32:47 PM
Now, here's the big question. Is the administrator going to swoop in and defend me?
You've done nothing but attack Ted for 2 days, but now you're gonna' whine and cry for help ?
Get a grip.
Quote from: markberwyn on July 09, 2012, 07:01:24 PM
Quote from: berwynguy on July 09, 2012, 06:44:24 PM
Oh, I forgot to mention that the charge of racism was leveled at me by a hypocrite and "former" racist who "rose above where he was raised."
http://www.berwyntalk.com/smf/index.php?topic=2247.msg33210#msg33210 (http://www.berwyntalk.com/smf/index.php?topic=2247.msg33210#msg33210)
That's you, right, berwynguy?
Quote from: berwynguy on May 15, 2012, 06:38:00 PM
Quote from: markberwyn on October 23, 2006, 04:01:02 PM
Quote from: bohemian on October 23, 2006, 03:54:50 PM
I along with other posters I am sure, am not concerned with the "feelings" of African Americans and others who may be reading this board when we have some very serious issues that may involve an influx of African Americans and Hispanics to our city that could potentially affect the values of our homes and the safety of our families. I would rather live a normal life than deal with these issues but unfortunately that just can't happen.
Wow.
Read the thread for context, but the "issues" that were not allowing me to lead a normal life I was talking about were effected property values and safety in Berwyn. Both prophecies have unfortunately come to pass six years later. You be the judge in the aftermath.
This is actually a good transition back to the original topic of this thread: Two more shot in Berwyn. I stick by what I said. Whether you are black, hispanic, or white and want to shoot, maim, rob, steal, litter up the neighborhood, blast your music at all hours of the night, intimidate with your pit bull, whatever, I am sure that you will not be welcomed with open arms here by many people. Decent people shouldn't have to put up with this crap.
Quote from: buzz on July 09, 2012, 07:02:44 PM
Quote from: berwynguy on July 09, 2012, 06:32:47 PM
Now, here's the big question. Is the administrator going to swoop in and defend me?
You've done nothing but attack Ted for 2 days, but now you're gonna' whine and cry for help ?
Get a grip.
Nah. Actually I don't need any help, just curious if the same rules apply to everyone, that's all.
Long story short: Yes, berwynguy was worried about blacks and hispanics moving into town, keeping him from leading a "normal" life.
Of course, his racism needs to be understood "in context."
Quote from: markberwyn on July 09, 2012, 07:09:21 PM
Long story short: Yes, berwynguy was worried about blacks and hispanics moving into town, keeping him from leading a "normal" life.
I'm sure many people were worried about minorities moving into town. I know the Czechs were worried about the Italians when they moved in back in the 50's-60's. That is one of the main reasons the Italian-American Civic Organization of Berwyn was formed by Carl Reina Sr. and others.
Berwynguy was only expressing his frustration with Ted and his constant haranguing of certain individuals, (city workers) on this site and his cyber-bullying of them. His constant use of innuendo and false information (at times-seems to be more and more) about individuals and his hiding behind a computer, because if he is confronted in person, he is somehow being stalked.
His flawed conspiracy theories are getting old and he is doing nothing to improve the image of Berwyn, as a place to be. His constant posting of all things wrong or bad about Berwyn is making him look like a grumpy old man meets borscht-belt crank.
offtopic
Ted complaining about TIF money once again.
Quote from: berwynguy on July 09, 2012, 07:05:40 PM
Quote from: markberwyn on July 09, 2012, 07:01:24 PM
Quote from: berwynguy on July 09, 2012, 06:44:24 PM
Oh, I forgot to mention that the charge of racism was leveled at me by a hypocrite and "former" racist who "rose above where he was raised."
http://www.berwyntalk.com/smf/index.php?topic=2247.msg33210#msg33210 (http://www.berwyntalk.com/smf/index.php?topic=2247.msg33210#msg33210)
That's you, right, berwynguy?
Quote from: berwynguy on May 15, 2012, 06:38:00 PM
Quote from: markberwyn on October 23, 2006, 04:01:02 PM
Quote from: bohemian on October 23, 2006, 03:54:50 PM
I along with other posters I am sure, am not concerned with the "feelings" of African Americans and others who may be reading this board when we have some very serious issues that may involve an influx of African Americans and Hispanics to our city that could potentially affect the values of our homes and the safety of our families. I would rather live a normal life than deal with these issues but unfortunately that just can't happen.
Wow.
Read the thread for context, but the "issues" that were not allowing me to lead a normal life I was talking about were effected property values and safety in Berwyn. Both prophecies have unfortunately come to pass six years later. You be the judge in the aftermath.
This is actually a good transition back to the original topic of this thread: Two more shot in Berwyn. I stick by what I said. Whether you are black, hispanic, or white and want to shoot, maim, rob, steal, litter up the neighborhood, blast your music at all hours of the night, intimidate with your pit bull, whatever, I am sure that you will not be welcomed with open arms here by many people. Decent people shouldn't have to put up with this crap.
One more thing I forgot to add to my statement above. If what I wrote in the bolded paragraph above "hurt your feelings" and you're black, white, purple, or whatever, then boo fucking hoo. Get over it. I'm more concerned with living among decent people, regardless of their color, then your "feelings."
Now, as Simply Berwyn said, before we were rudely interupted with the most blatant off the wall, left field Internet trolling incident I have ever seen occur on BTF, offtopic
Quote from: SimplyBerwyn on July 09, 2012, 09:44:43 PM
I know the Czechs were worried about the Italians when they moved in back in the 50's-60's.
And here I thought Berwyn fell in the 80s-90s. :)
Quote from: markberwyn on July 09, 2012, 05:43:55 PM
At least spell the name of the person you're attacking right.
But, but I thought.......
(http://i.imgur.com/4LQ8U.jpg)
Sorry to Mark Titzer, who's a good guy, for posting this.
Quote from: berwynguy on July 09, 2012, 10:27:05 PM
One more thing I forgot to add to my statement above. If what I wrote in the bolded paragraph above "hurt your feelings" and you're black, white, purple, or whatever, then boo fucking hoo. Get over it. I'm more concerned with living among decent people, regardless of their color, then your "feelings.
Well, this reflects an interesting evolution on your part. It used to be that you disliked blacks and hispanics moving next to you. Now you just hate everybody. You're growing!
My. My. My. You almost had me fooled. For one post there, I thought you were interested in a serious rational discussion of patronage and corruption in Berwyn and Cook County.
But in your other posts, you degenerate into your typical bullying behaviour of name calling, character assassination and personal attacks.
Why am I not surprised?
Quote from: SimplyBerwyn on July 09, 2012, 09:44:43 PM
Berwynguy was only expressing his frustration with Ted and his constant haranguing of certain individuals, (city workers) on this site and his cyber-bullying of them. His constant use of innuendo and false information (at times-seems to be more and more) about individuals and his hiding behind a computer, because if he is confronted in person, he is somehow being stalked.
His flawed conspiracy theories are getting old and he is doing nothing to improve the image of Berwyn, as a place to be. His constant posting of all things wrong or bad about Berwyn is making him look like a grumpy old man meets borscht-belt crank.
Coming from you, I take that as a compliment. Every town needs a gadfly to point out its corruption.
btw, Why don't city workers in Oak Park or Evanston ever get so heavliy involved in local elections?
Why only places like Berwyn or Cicero?
And, why do people who live in Bolingbrook feel the need to support legislative candidates whose districts cover Berwyn and whose disticts are not even close to Bolingbrook?
Questions, questions, questions.
Some of the posts in this thread (about how political corruption always has been and always will be and there's nothing you can do about it) remind me of an old saying -
Never teach a pig to sing.
It's a waste of time. And, it annoys the pig.
Quote from: SimplyBerwyn on July 09, 2012, 09:44:43 PM
Quote from: markberwyn on July 09, 2012, 07:09:21 PM
Long story short: Yes, berwynguy was worried about blacks and hispanics moving into town, keeping him from leading a "normal" life.
I'm sure many people were worried about minorities moving into town. I know the Czechs were worried about the Italians when they moved in back in the 50's-60's. That is one of the main reasons the Italian-American Civic Organization of Berwyn was formed by Carl Reina Sr. and others.
This is kind of a fucked-up defense of berwynguy's rhetoric. "People were always racist in Berwyn!"
Quote from: Ted on July 10, 2012, 05:53:43 AM
My. My. My. You almost had me fooled. For one post there, I thought you were interested in a serious rational discussion of patronage and corruption in Berwyn and Cook County.
But in your other posts, you degenerate into your typical bullying behaviour of name calling, character assassination and personal attacks.
Why am I not surprised?
Don't be surprised. The bottom line at least for me is that you are an angry old man who's full of shit. You don't care about "corruption" or what's right or wrong, political ideology drives your vendetta. I'm going to continue to call you out on it no matter what Washington D.C. shit stirrer comes out of the wood work to divert the argument and save your ass. (Yeah, this douche bag's got no life so he trolls a BERWYN, a place he lived for about 3 years, message board looking to stir up shit.) If the administrator bans me for "attacks" (it seems I'm the only one that's singled out for that, markshitbag's not) then I'm gonna call you out in person when I see you. You can then come on here and tell everybody how I "stalked you." Afterall, you put yourself out there when you decided to be an internet loud mouth who hides behind his computer.
Quote from: berwynguy on July 10, 2012, 11:07:20 AM
Quote from: Ted on July 10, 2012, 05:53:43 AM
My. My. My. You almost had me fooled. For one post there, I thought you were interested in a serious rational discussion of patronage and corruption in Berwyn and Cook County.
But in your other posts, you degenerate into your typical bullying behaviour of name calling, character assassination and personal attacks.
Why am I not surprised?
Don't be surprised. The bottom line at least for me is that you are an angry old man who's full of shit. You don't care about "corruption" or what's right or wrong, political ideology drives your vendetta. I'm going to continue to call you out on it no matter what Washington D.C. shit stirrer comes out of the wood work to divert the argument and save your ass. (Yeah, this douche bag's got no life so he trolls a BERWYN, a place he lived for about 3 years, message board looking to stir up shit.) If the administrator bans me for "attacks" (it seems I'm the only one that's singled out for that, markshitbag's not) then I'm gonna call you out in person when I see you. You can then come on here and tell everybody how I "stalked you." Afterall, you put yourself out there when you decided to be an internet loud mouth who hides behind his computer.
I hope that at some point berwynguy receives however much help is required for him to figure out what it is he's mad about.
One the one hand he's unhappy at a longtime resident for holding opinions that don't mirror his own; one the other he's unhappy at somebody for not living in Berwyn for as long as he would like. It's the same old question, inspired by the blinkered small-townism that berwynguy so ably represents: How long do you have to live in Berwyn before you're qualified to talk about it?
Truth is, the questions of who's lived here how long and whether they still live here aren't really important to berwynguy. If it were, he'd be calling Berwyn Patsy "patsyshitbag" and openly calling her a troll. What this is about is the world not agreeing with berwynguy, and his deep unhappiness about this. The world has passed berwynguy by---it's more diverse, more liberal, more populated with people like Ted willing to push back against the powers that be---and that unsettles him badly. Why else would he engage in insults and name-calling? Why else would he tell people who wish to protest that they should just shut up and accept things as they are? Why else would he have a signature that expresses regret that things in Berwyn aren't how they used to be?
markshitbag, you are a troll.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll)
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4]
If the definition above doesn't describe how off the wall, random, and nutty your posts were in this thread yesterday I don't know what else could. It also describes the rest of your posts in the national political section of this forum. You are an outsider, a troll shit stirrer that comes to BTF just to cause trouble.
Oh, and for the record, you lived here from 6/2004-5/2007. You were just passing through. You moved over five years ago yet for some weird creepy reason, continue to troll this board and start shit with people. It's rather curious..... Why would someone such as yourself who's obviously intellectually superior to the rest of us, continue to lower yourself by consorting with racists, "undereducated lunkheads" who are infected with "small-townism?" Why? Do we make you feel better about yourself? Is that what this is all about? Do you sit with the "intellectual" swells in D.C. and tell them about the backwoods barbarians you grew up around that you "rose above?"
Quote from: berwynguy on July 10, 2012, 11:54:49 AM
markshitbag, you are a troll.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll)
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4]
If the definition above doesn't describe how off the wall, random, and nutty your posts were in this thread yesterday I don't know what else could. It also describes the rest of your posts in the national political section of this forum. You are an outsider, a troll shit stirrer that comes to BTF just to cause trouble.
Oh, and for the record, you lived here from 6/2004-5/2007. You were just passing through. You moved over five years ago yet for some weird creepy reason, continue to troll this board and start shit with people. It's rather curious..... Why would someone such as yourself who's obviously intellectually superior to the rest of us, continue to lower yourself by consorting with racists, "undereducated lunkheads" who are infected with "small-townism?" Why? Do we make you feel better about yourself? Is that what this is all about? Do you sit with the "intellectual" swells in D.C. and tell them about the backwoods barbarians you grew up around that you "rose above?"
Again, I'm not here to help you feel better about yourself.
If you are convinced that I am a troll, gather up the people you are certain agree with you and encourage them to collectively lobby the site's owner for my removal. It may be that Brian won't listen to just you, but a large group of people may have some influence. You never know what can happen when one person works together with others to affect change.
And, really, who's the troll here? Wasn't a perfectly legitimate discussion of TIF funding going on here before somebody derailed the conversation by saying Ted was deluded and that he should shut up about TIFs?
I mean, how *isn't* this trolling?
"Were you one of those kids that always 'tied?' Did you get one of those 'everybody wins' trophies when you played sports as a kid? Darwinism LOVES people like you. Whiners like you are the fuel that winners feed off of when they survive/get to the top while you become extinct."
Inflammatory, off-topic, disruptive---sounds like trolling to me.
Quote from: markberwyn on July 10, 2012, 12:07:02 PM
I mean, how *isn't* this trolling?
"Were you one of those kids that always 'tied?' Did you get one of those 'everybody wins' trophies when you played sports as a kid? Darwinism LOVES people like you. Whiners like you are the fuel that winners feed off of when they survive/get to the top while you become extinct."
Inflammatory, off-topic, disruptive---sounds like trolling to me.
The difference is I live here, I pay taxes here, and I vote here. You don't. You lived in Berwyn for a brief blip in time, moved away years ago, and now live hundreds of miles away with with people more suited to your intellectual superiority. What do you need Berwyn for?
Quote from: berwynguy on July 10, 2012, 12:10:44 PM
Quote from: markberwyn on July 10, 2012, 12:07:02 PM
I mean, how *isn't* this trolling?
"Were you one of those kids that always 'tied?' Did you get one of those 'everybody wins' trophies when you played sports as a kid? Darwinism LOVES people like you. Whiners like you are the fuel that winners feed off of when they survive/get to the top while you become extinct."
Inflammatory, off-topic, disruptive---sounds like trolling to me.
The difference is I live here, I pay taxes here, and I vote here. You don't. You lived in Berwyn for a brief blip in time, moved away years ago, and now live hundreds of miles away with with people more suited to your intellectual superiority. What do you need Berwyn for?
Unless BTF became funded by local taxes when I wasn't looking, I don't see what your status as a taxpayer has to do with anything. You're thinking this through very poorly, perhaps because you're not used to being disagreed with.
Also, if I understand your logic correctly, "trolling" is a function of proximity to Berwyn. What a weirdly parochial line of thought.
Well my work is done here. All that needs to be said has been said. Adios markshitbagD.C.! I hope Berwyn Talk fills whatever void you must have in your life! :usa:
Actually Mark Ted hijacked the thread and changed the topic in reply #12. He went from TIF funds to Stroger and other old news. But keep it going I love when intellectuals impressed with themselves come on here to try and mind fuck others. Its very entertaining. BTW in one of your earlier posts you brought back a quote from Berwynguy back in 2006. I'm surprised someone as intelligent as you failed to mention that his fears from 6 years ago pretty much came true. And it can be backed up with statistics as fact not racism as you love to accuse many of. Nothing racist about the truth, even if some are hurt by it.
Quote from: mustang54 on July 10, 2012, 12:23:54 PM
Actually Mark Ted hijacked the thread and changed the topic in reply #12.
I don't think you can hijack a thread you started.
Quote from: mustang54 on July 10, 2012, 12:23:54 PM
BTW in one of your earlier posts you brought back a quote from Berwynguy back in 2006. I'm surprised someone as intelligent as you failed to mention that his fears from 6 years ago pretty much came true. And it can be backed up with statistics as fact not racism as you love to accuse many of. Nothing racist about the truth, even if some are hurt by it.
Berwynguy's fear in 2006 was that he would wind up living next to blacks and Hispanics. (They would keep him from living a "normal" life.) What part of that fear am I supposed to respect? Am I to respect his fears more, now that more blacks and Hispanics live in the same town he does?
Mark your a sharp guy I think you know the answers to your own questions. Have a nice day.
Quote from: mustang54 on July 10, 2012, 12:39:33 PM
Mark your a sharp guy I think you know the answers to your own questions. Have a nice day.
Sure---I'll state them clearly. There's no part of berwynguy's racist rhetoric I respect, and there's no reason to respect it more over time. But I'd certainly like to see an argument for why berwynguy's thinking deserves to be respected.
Quote from: berwynguy on July 10, 2012, 12:10:44 PM
Quote from: markberwyn on July 10, 2012, 12:07:02 PM
I mean, how *isn't* this trolling?
"Were you one of those kids that always 'tied?' Did you get one of those 'everybody wins' trophies when you played sports as a kid? Darwinism LOVES people like you. Whiners like you are the fuel that winners feed off of when they survive/get to the top while you become extinct."
Inflammatory, off-topic, disruptive---sounds like trolling to me.
The difference is I live here, I pay taxes here, and I vote here. You don't. You lived in Berwyn for a brief blip in time, moved away years ago, and now live hundreds of miles away with with people more suited to your intellectual superiority. What do you need Berwyn for?
I like MarkBerwyn. He is intelligent and brings good stuff. Intellectually superior people are ALWAYS welcome here.
Quote from: markberwyn on July 10, 2012, 12:34:28 PM
Quote from: mustang54 on July 10, 2012, 12:23:54 PM
Actually Mark Ted hijacked the thread and changed the topic in reply #12.
I don't think you can hijack a thread you started.
Quote from: mustang54 on July 10, 2012, 12:23:54 PM
BTW in one of your earlier posts you brought back a quote from Berwynguy back in 2006. I'm surprised someone as intelligent as you failed to mention that his fears from 6 years ago pretty much came true. And it can be backed up with statistics as fact not racism as you love to accuse many of. Nothing racist about the truth, even if some are hurt by it.
Berwynguy's fear in 2006 was that he would wind up living next to blacks and Hispanics. (They would keep him from living a "normal" life.) What part of that fear am I supposed to respect? Am I to respect his fears more, now that more blacks and Hispanics live in the same town he does?
You realize Berwynguy is hispanic? Which makes this all the more entertaining.
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on July 10, 2012, 01:19:09 PM
Quote from: markberwyn on July 10, 2012, 12:34:28 PM
Quote from: mustang54 on July 10, 2012, 12:23:54 PM
Actually Mark Ted hijacked the thread and changed the topic in reply #12.
I don't think you can hijack a thread you started.
Quote from: mustang54 on July 10, 2012, 12:23:54 PM
BTW in one of your earlier posts you brought back a quote from Berwynguy back in 2006. I'm surprised someone as intelligent as you failed to mention that his fears from 6 years ago pretty much came true. And it can be backed up with statistics as fact not racism as you love to accuse many of. Nothing racist about the truth, even if some are hurt by it.
Berwynguy's fear in 2006 was that he would wind up living next to blacks and Hispanics. (They would keep him from living a "normal" life.) What part of that fear am I supposed to respect? Am I to respect his fears more, now that more blacks and Hispanics live in the same town he does?
You realize Berwynguy is hispanic? Which makes this all the more entertaining.
Self-hate is a hell of a drug.
Sticks and stones can break my bones but names can never hurt me.
You can harrass and harangue me all you want, but it's not going to stop me from expressing my opinion or posting cases of favoritism or corruption in Berwyn, even if it does make me seem "sanctimoneous."
Quote from: markberwyn on July 10, 2012, 12:34:28 PM
I don't think you can hijack a thread you started....
That's an interesting question - Can someone hijack their own thread?
btw, I don't think I hijacked it. I was simply responding to the notion that "Life isn't fair" to those who contended that we have to live with favoritism in politics.
offtopic
Ted complaining about TIF money once again.
Quote from: SimplyBerwyn on July 11, 2012, 11:20:54 AM
offtopic
Ted complaining about TIF money once again.
I don't agree with him on this point, but if everyone turns a blind eye, you end up with a Shaugnessy experience where people are doing who knows what.
We don't have a good newspaper in town, so it is very few people keeping a watchful eye.
BTW, SimplyBerwyn, did your property taxes go up? Do you notice an improvement in services? I don't see an improvement, so where did that money go and for what purpose?
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on July 11, 2012, 12:01:23 PM
BTW, SimplyBerwyn, did your property taxes go up? Do you notice an improvement in services? I don't see an improvement, so where did that money go and for what purpose?
Does SimplyBerwyn live or pay property taxes in Berwyn?
Improvement? My yard waste and recycled garbage didn't get picked up last week, only the regular waste. I know that things get behind because of the 4th holiday, but then everything is supposed to get pushed back a day. We have Wednesday pick up so I thought that everything would get taken first thing Thursday. Only the regular stuff. Waited to see if by chance something would happen Saturday, but nothing. Called WM Monday to see how to go about getting a credit, knowing I would get nowhere because this has happened before. I was laughed at. I guess we pay for services not rendered. E-mailed the alderman and mayor's office, nothing. Someone from WM did call to basically say this doesn't happen that often. Big deal.
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on July 11, 2012, 12:01:23 PM
Quote from: SimplyBerwyn on July 11, 2012, 11:20:54 AM
offtopic
Ted complaining about TIF money once again.
I don't agree with him on this point, but if everyone turns a blind eye, you end up with a Shaugnessy experience where people are doing who knows what.
We don't have a good newspaper in town, so it is very few people keeping a watchful eye.
BTW, SimplyBerwyn, did your property taxes go up? Do you notice an improvement in services? I don't see an improvement, so where did that money go and for what purpose?
Yes, our property taxes went up. Yes, I noticed an improvement in services, specifically police & fire. The bulk of our property taxes go to the school district-but I am not happy with the elected school board officials, with the controversial headlines in the news. Doesn't give me much confidence in some of them. I am hoping WWIT can become a driving force in helping elect better candidates to the board. Bob Pauly is a candidate I could support for District 201 and I hope he decides to throw his hat in the ring. I for one, am going to work for the WWIT ticket, as long as they are good candidates. I am also hoping Mayor Lovero gets involved and tries to make a difference in the educational system in Berwyn. I have complete confidence in both grammar school districts, as well as our park districts.
More police presence on the street is a double-edge sword-makes me feel both confident and safe, but at the same time makes me question the type of individuals that have moved into the community. Fire service was improved by having another Advanced Life Support ambulance on the street and more specifically, it covers the ward in which I live. I believe the nightmare of the previous years (pre-Kushner) are over and we have once again a top-notch, first class PD! I also believe the leadership shown by the FD Chief and his staff is the best its ever been and we have had some very good chiefs in the past.
What improvement has there been in the FD?
I'm talking quantitative measurements ie. response time, deaths, etc. I'm not talking about "there is another ambulance nearby". While I get that is important, if the metrics haven't changed...was it money well spent?
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on July 11, 2012, 02:45:51 PM
What improvement has there been in the FD?
I'm talking quantitative measurements ie. response time, deaths, etc. I'm not talking about "there is another ambulance nearby". While I get that is important, if the metrics haven't changed...was it money well spent?
If I remember correctly, the FD chief stated the first day of the new ALS situation, the FD was able to save a man from having a heart attack because of the additional ambulance. I'm sure if you know anybody in the FD, or call the chief, they have the numbers to back up improved response times, etc....
I'm not disputing improvements in the PD or FD, but I do not see the increase in taxes as a correlation. We were told the FD was actually spending less by bringing EMS in house.
I do hear shitloads of sirens though, and I'll gladly pay more to get more cops on the street. (And a couple of blight inspectors. ;)
Quote from: SimplyBerwyn on July 11, 2012, 02:39:58 PM
I am also hoping Mayor Lovero gets involved and tries to make a difference
Lovero has already promised to get involved. I think it was in response to one of Pauly's statements during the State of the City meeting. Another promise, no visible action.
As for the FD, I still do not believe bring the EMS people into the department was a cost savings.
And as far as the PD goes, Lovero turned me off totally by allowing Skyrd to screw the City with his phoney degree.
SimplyBerwyn, do you live in Berwyn? yes or no?
Quote from: Bonster on July 11, 2012, 02:54:33 PM
I'm not disputing improvements in the PD or FD, but I do not see the increase in taxes as a correlation. We were told the FD was actually spending less by bringing EMS in house.
I do hear shitloads of sirens though, and I'll gladly pay more to get more cops on the street. (And a couple of blight inspectors. ;)
Has anyone ever seen an analysis performed by the city? Or was the analysis which was used to talk about the savings performed by the fire union?
The city should have done an independent study. I've never heard anyone say that was actually done.
Quote from: buzz on July 11, 2012, 03:48:52 PM
Quote from: SimplyBerwyn on July 11, 2012, 02:39:58 PM
I am also hoping Mayor Lovero gets involved and tries to make a difference
Lovero has already promised to get involved. I think it was in response to one of Pauly's statements during the State of the City meeting. Another promise, no visible action.
As for the FD, I still do not believe bring the EMS people into the department was a cost savings.
And as far as the PD goes, Lovero turned me off totally by allowing Skyrd to screw the City with his phoney degree.
Other than the Skryd degree fiasco, do you have any proof that Lovero is not going to be involved. And just because you believe bringing EMS people into the department wasn't a cost savings, how do you know? Just saying....
You can harrass and harangue me all you want, but it's not going to stop me from expressing my opinion or posting when I read your outlandish, non-sensical cases of
alleged favoritism or corruption in Berwyn, even when it makes you seem "sanctimoneous."
Quote from: SimplyBerwyn on July 11, 2012, 04:47:26 PM
Other than the Skryd degree fiasco, do you have any proof that Lovero is not going to be involved. And just because you believe bringing EMS people into the department wasn't a cost savings, how do you know? Just saying....
You can harrass and harangue me all you want, but it's not going to stop me from expressing my opinion or posting when I read your outlandish, non-sensical cases of alleged favoritism or corruption in Berwyn, even when it makes you seem "sanctimoneous."
Oh, so he's warming up to getting involved, cool !
Transparency is a good thing. Releasing an honest financial eval about the EMS folks would be great, wouldn't it ? It would resolve the issue, perhaps even establish some trust. Til then, history has taught me not to trust politicians.
Who's harrassing you ? What have I posted that was "outlandish and non-sensical" ?
Quote from: SimplyBerwyn on July 11, 2012, 04:47:26 PM
outlandish, non-sensical cases of alleged favoritism or corruption in Berwyn ...
I guess that means the Skryd promotion to commander was an "outlandish, non-sensical case" of an "alleged" promotion... LOL
Quote from: SimplyBerwyn on July 11, 2012, 04:47:26 PM
.. Other than the Skryd degree fiasco...
Other than the assassination, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
Quote from: Ted on July 12, 2012, 06:00:44 AM
Quote from: SimplyBerwyn on July 11, 2012, 04:47:26 PM
outlandish, non-sensical cases of alleged favoritism or corruption in Berwyn ...
I guess that means the Skryd promotion to commander was an "outlandish, non-sensical case" of an "alleged" promotion... LOL
Quote from: SimplyBerwyn on July 11, 2012, 04:47:26 PM
.. Other than the Skryd degree fiasco...
Other than the assassination, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
Should have said "some" of your outlandish.......
Otherwise, Ted...This is what I hear from you... blah blah blah blah blah-conspiracy-blah blah blah blah -corruption-blah blah blah blah.
You can harrass and harangue me all you want, but it's not going to stop me from expressing my opinion or posting when I read
some of your outlandish, non-sensical cases of alleged favoritism or corruption in Berwyn, even when it makes
you seem "sanctimoneous."
Quote from: SimplyBerwyn on July 12, 2012, 11:22:15 AM
Otherwise, Ted...This is what I hear from you... blah blah blah blah blah-conspiracy-blah blah blah blah -corruption-blah blah blah blah.
Then you're reading only what you want to read and hearing only what you want to hear. I post about a lot more than that.
btw, you never answered my question - Do you currently live in Berwyn (and sleeping overnight every third day in a fire house doesn't count)?
Are you registered to vote in Berwyn?