Went out for a light dinner,where do we go? Oak Park! Lake street is booming wall to wall people,the town has gotten better since I was kid.Sure wish Berwyn would become the same!!!
That's what better schools and higher taxes buys you.
I wish Berwyn would try to improve as well
Years ago Berwyn schools were just as political as today,the difference was the parents were very supportive of education.The children were taught to work hard in school,respecting their teachers.Taxes were not high,but the high school was tops.I know I was there!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: berwyn senator on July 07, 2015, 05:12:17 PM
Years ago Berwyn schools were just as political as today,the difference was the parents were very supportive of education.The children were taught to work hard in school,respecting their teachers.Taxes were not high,but the high school was tops.I know I was there!!!!!!!!!
Why is it that Oak Parkers do a better job of raising their children than Berwynites?
Good question! I might answer the parents are educated and they want the same for their kids?
Quote from: berwyn senator on July 07, 2015, 10:00:23 PM
Good question! I might answer the parents are educated and they want the same for their kids?
It's true that lower-educated people look for places with cheaper housing. It's almost as if quality of education and property tax revenues are connected!
Oak Park raised taxes around 1986, doubling for some homeowners people paid the increase and stayed. Politics need to be removed from the school system,wishful thinking.
Quote from: berwyn senator on July 08, 2015, 01:37:09 PM
Oak Park raised taxes around 1986, doubling for some homeowners people paid the increase and stayed. Politics need to be removed from the school system,wishful thinking.
It's been my experience that Berwyn has an inexhaustible capacity to dismiss any shift from the status quo as "politics," especially when it comes to education.
I need to become educated on why the politics have such a hold on our educational system?maybe control?
One of the big differences between Berwyn and Oak Park is that Oak Park has a huge number of citizen advisory boards weighing in on everything Oak Park. A large number of Oak Park citizens do get involved in the governmental process and the elected officials have to "deal" with the advisory boards. I know because I spent many years on one when I lived there. The commitment of time could be exhaustive, but the results benefited the whole community.
Berwyn government seems secretive and does not encourage input/feedback from residents. Once our alderman got elected he disappeared from sight. And, try to get to the mayor - forget it. I have called a couple times to try and talk to the mayor and I was questioned, questioned, questioned about what I was calling about from two of his staff. In the end I gave up trying.
Oak Park has lots of slacker residents, but there are enough people seriously involved to keep pulling the community forward on so many issues. I went to plenty of Junior High open houses in Oak Park, back in the day where there were a handful of parents showing up. So, all is not perfect on the other side of Roosevelt, but it's pretty impressive.
I am fully aware of the grass always looking greener,our alderman is the same,I think I've seen him once when he was first elected. They do need to work on the schools,they were much better years back,and I don't believe money is the answer. In Oak Park are there two parties,and what happens to the advisory groups if the political party changes?
In Oak Park when citizens commit to an advisory board they commit to a term. I was on one with a 4 year commitment and some people would renew or go serve on a different advisory board. So, the beauty of it was that who is in office had nothing to do with the running of the advisory board(s).
I am sure Berwyn does not chance,or would not allow this to happen.How much actual influence do these boards have over the elected officials,mayor,president?
Elected officials of the city have no doings in the school. It's really about not.enough.money. There is a tipping point with money-- when we don't have enough to meet the needs of our kids and we're there.
Low property values/low taxes = low $ for schools. People working several jobs and not able to be involved in schools on a hugely active basis and language barriers also = low involvement. There are many of us who do what we can but it's not enough. Days past-- the state kicked in more so maybe that's what you mean when you say there was still not much money but the schools were better. We don't have that now. Thanks to Rauner cutting everything for working people to benefit the 1%.
Can't expect that a budget from 20+ years ago (or more) will go as far in today's economy.
Quote from: chandasz on July 09, 2015, 06:26:48 PM
Elected officials of the city have no doings in the school. It's really about not.enough.money. There is a tipping point with money-- when we don't have enough to meet the needs of our kids and we're there.
Low property values/low taxes = low $ for schools. People working several jobs and not able to be involved in schools on a hugely active basis and language barriers also = low involvement. There are many of us who do what we can but it's not enough. Days past-- the state kicked in more so maybe that's what you mean when you say there was still not much money but the schools were better. We don't have that now. Thanks to Rauner cutting everything for working people to benefit the 1%.
Can't expect that a budget from 20+ years ago (or more) will go as far in today's economy.
Don't bother---senator is just going to Trumpishly respond and tell you that money has nothing to do with it and that what Berwyn parents need to do is instill more stick-to-it-ive-ness in their kids.
Quote from: chandasz on July 09, 2015, 06:26:48 PM
Elected officials of the city have no doings in the school. It's really about not.enough.money. There is a tipping point with money-- when we don't have enough to meet the needs of our kids and we're there.
Low property values/low taxes = low $ for schools. People working several jobs and not able to be involved in schools on a hugely active basis and language barriers also = low involvement. There are many of us who do what we can but it's not enough. Days past-- the state kicked in more so maybe that's what you mean when you say there was still not much money but the schools were better. We don't have that now. Thanks to Rauner cutting everything for working people to benefit the 1%.
Can't expect that a budget from 20+ years ago (or more) will go as far in today's economy.
Then why do elected officials get involved in school politics here? We've seen it in various races here whether they say they are involved are not. So why should we vote for higher taxes when we aren't sure how they will be spent? I'd like to say that higher taxes here will lead to better schools but without community advisory boards without any political afficialiation for input and some kind of oversight I will never vote for higher taxes. I know plenty of my kind.
Quote from: markberwyn on July 08, 2015, 02:59:26 PM
Quote from: berwyn senator on July 08, 2015, 01:37:09 PM
Oak Park raised taxes around 1986, doubling for some homeowners people paid the increase and stayed. Politics need to be removed from the school system,wishful thinking.
It's been my experience that Berwyn has an inexhaustible capacity to dismiss any shift from the status quo as "politics," especially when it comes to education.
For a very good reason. Take a look at the school board from Morton School District 201 and tell me if you disagree.
Quote from: MRS. NORTHSIDER on July 09, 2015, 08:01:27 PM
Quote from: markberwyn on July 08, 2015, 02:59:26 PM
Quote from: berwyn senator on July 08, 2015, 01:37:09 PM
Oak Park raised taxes around 1986, doubling for some homeowners people paid the increase and stayed. Politics need to be removed from the school system,wishful thinking.
It's been my experience that Berwyn has an inexhaustible capacity to dismiss any shift from the status quo as "politics," especially when it comes to education.
For a very good reason. Take a look at the school board from Morton School District 201 and tell me if you disagree.
Yes, yes, I know. As soon as the school board is just right in every way Berwynites will thrill to invest in their schools.
Board members are supported and put in place mostly by Cicero,Berwyn gets the balance.Now tell me how can these people run the school system?they're puppets.If we didn't have the waste in the system we can never be sure of how the money is to be spent if taxes are raised for the schools.Many of the good people teaching or administrators are driven out to make room for the politically connected which are not as efficient as the ones they replaced.
Quote from: markberwyn on July 09, 2015, 08:10:35 PM
Quote from: MRS. NORTHSIDER on July 09, 2015, 08:01:27 PM
Quote from: markberwyn on July 08, 2015, 02:59:26 PM
Quote from: berwyn senator on July 08, 2015, 01:37:09 PM
Oak Park raised taxes around 1986, doubling for some homeowners people paid the increase and stayed. Politics need to be removed from the school system,wishful thinking.
It's been my experience that Berwyn has an inexhaustible capacity to dismiss any shift from the status quo as "politics," especially when it comes to education.
For a very good reason. Take a look at the school board from Morton School District 201 and tell me if you disagree.
Yes, yes, I know. As soon as the school board is just right in every way Berwynites will thrill to invest in their schools.
As for District 201, you will have a long to wait as long as Larry Dominick and his hand picked school board members are in power. Although, I must admit their PR campaign is working well for them with their magazine mailers. I put up the 2015 Morton Rugby state champion poster I received in the mail on my fridge. There are many great kids going there and doing well despite a school board that I feel is way too politically connected. District 100 has prepared my children well for their future and I hope next time they hope to pass a referendum they are prepared to present a more economically feasible plan to the taxpayers.
Quote from: chandasz on July 09, 2015, 06:26:48 PM
Elected officials of the city have no doings in the school. It's really about not.enough.money. There is a tipping point with money-- when we don't have enough to meet the needs of our kids and we're there.
L Thanks to Rauner cutting everything for working people to benefit the 1%.
Rauner just got in office !! You wanna point fingers point them at Madigan and his cronies who have made this the worst state in almost every category. Finances,education, the state is a mess.
I agree with all,one question I understand there is a nurse in the school.for outside people?We had a nurse just for the students.
The folks who recently ranked all 50 states by their "desirability", based on many factors considered, placed Illinois at #27, ranging from #1, Michigan, the BEST, to #50, Florida, the WORST. Their heads are up their asses regarding their rankings, AFAIC. See the whole definition, if you care to, here:
https://www.yahoo.com/travel/the-def...796477147.html (https://www.yahoo.com/travel/the-def...796477147.html)
berwynson
I think this is the article you're referencing:
https://www.yahoo.com/travel/the-definitive-and-final-ranking-of-all-50-states-122796477147.html (https://www.yahoo.com/travel/the-definitive-and-final-ranking-of-all-50-states-122796477147.html)
You realize the list is meant to be funny, right? Here's the summary of Illinois:
Quote
Chicago's a fine city that vacillates between having WAY too high an opinion of itself and desperately needing outside approval. That said, without it, Illinois would really be scraping bottom. Have you ever been to Rockford? That city enjoys bowling to a degree that makes everybody else uncomfortable. Also, since 1961 Illinois has sent an impressive four governors to prison, so watch yourself Bruce Rauner!
If you want to feel better about Illinois, here's a clever (and very funny) ranking of states by their definitive food. Illinois comes out on top:
http://deadspin.com/the-great-american-menu-foods-of-the-states-ranked-an-1349137024 (http://deadspin.com/the-great-american-menu-foods-of-the-states-ranked-an-1349137024)
"You realize the list is meant to be funny, right?"
I'm probably too serious to realize that. berwynson
Which state could one move to? No matter how rated taxes remain,local and federal.
Ugh, taxes! So horrible! Do they do a lick of good?
I believe politicians are over paid,benefits way to high. If they had to live on a average salary,and pension our taxes would be lower,maybe we could save a few bucks.Most parents both work kids are left to themselves,maybe this is how gangs recruit? I really don't know just a thought!!
What would an appropriate "average salary" for a politician be? And---just take a guess here---what percentage of total government spending do you think lawmaker salaries and benefits account for?
Bonus question: Lowering lawmaker salaries make it more likely that those running for office are independently wealthy. Does this improve democracy? Explain.
Also, I can give you every assurance that when gangs go looking for kids to bring into their fold, they're not preying on the children of dual-income households.
Quote from: markberwyn on July 12, 2015, 10:49:01 PM
Also, I can give you every assurance that when gangs go looking for kids to bring into their fold, they're not preying on the children of dual-income households.
Considering the violence in Chicago I would consider that somewhat of a white elitist and racist remark. But of course, I'm sure I'm wrong because most dual income families are definitely low income and black.
Quote from: MRS. NORTHSIDER on July 13, 2015, 12:11:25 AM
Quote from: markberwyn on July 12, 2015, 10:49:01 PM
Also, I can give you every assurance that when gangs go looking for kids to bring into their fold, they're not preying on the children of dual-income households.
Considering the violence in Chicago I would consider that somewhat of a white elitist and racist remark. But of course, I'm sure I'm wrong because most dual income families are definitely low income and black.
Huh?
Duel income families have nothing to do with gangs recruiting practices,nor do neighborhoods or race!
Quote from: berwyn senator on July 13, 2015, 01:14:37 PM
Duel income families have nothing to do with gangs recruiting practices,nor do neighborhoods or race!
Oh, you're funny.
OK, educated guy. You're the one who's benefited from a high-quality Berwyn education during the Good Old Days. I'm younger, and have not experienced the high-quality education you've enjoyed and reminded us of. So, educate me: How does gang recruitment happen? What do you feel is the most authoritative article or book on the subject, or which authorities did you consult in drawing your educated conclusions about gangs?
Oak Park has gangs,I have traveled often and gangs do discriminate when seeking to take over areas to sell drugs.Children who are left on their own,while parents work sometimes look to gangs as their family.
Quote from: berwyn senator on July 13, 2015, 10:28:58 PMChildren who are left on their own,while parents work sometimes look to gangs as their family.
How do you know this? What are your reading or watching or experiencing that tells you that children of dual-income families are susceptible to gang recruitment?
I think has to do more with parents who don't care, don't want to man up and be parents, or are having
kids just to get more aid.
Quote from: Suzy Q on July 14, 2015, 07:52:58 AM
I think has to do more with parents who don't care, don't want to man up and be parents, or are having
kids just to get more aid.
Welfare queens! A terrible influence! I heard* that 95 percent of children that "they" have are born just to get some government cash! Takers!
* via voices in my head
The many business contacts within the Midwest area are the best teachers.Gang wars are going on between Chicago and southern Wisconsin over drug turf,and many other areas.Single parents with children with several fathers,children being raised by grandparents,children left on their own,there is much more to be said.
Quote from: berwyn senator on July 14, 2015, 12:13:14 PM
The many business contacts within the Midwest area are the best teachers.Gang wars are going on between Chicago and southern Wisconsin over drug turf,and many other areas.Single parents with children with several fathers,children being raised by grandparents,children left on their own,there is much more to be said.
What kind of business contacts? What persuades you that they're more clued in than legislators, journalists, and scholars about the extent and nature of the gang problem? Please say more!
It's those grandparents-- I KNEW it. Must cut off contact with the grandparents immediately
Quote from: chandasz on July 14, 2015, 02:06:42 PM
It's those grandparents-- I KNEW it. Must cut off contact with the grandparents immediately
They're much too slow and frail to hold on to the kids when they get nabbed by the gangs!
Talk to any school administrators,police,or just ride around the neighborhood.Inter city kids are raised by grandparents,mothers have many boyfriends and children.
If many of you are parents with children in public school system the gangs are right before you,I'll bet the children in the schools are aware! They know a lot more then they tell the parents.
Quote from: berwyn senator on July 14, 2015, 04:44:06 PM
Talk to any school administrators,police,or just ride around the neighborhood.Inter city kids are raised by grandparents,mothers have many boyfriends and children.
Tell me about a few things you see when you "just ride around the neighborhood." Be specific.
Graffiti,or remnants,kids flashing gang signs around the schools.The way gangs dress,walk and hang out,shootings in and around play grounds.
You've seen a shooting in a playground? Whoa---when and where? Were any children hurt? Were gang members doing the shooting? Were they products of dual-income households?
Also, how do gangs dress, walk, and hang out? I did not grow up during the period when Berwynites were highly educated, so I need help understanding these things!
There was just a shooting in Brookfield! Light outside children playing,interesting no one talks about the incident does any one pay attention? Berwyn residents were hard working and were able to save a considerable amounts of money.Cermak road was known as the wall street of the midwest.Schools were some of the best in the state. If you need to know about gangs stop by the local police dept. I am sure someone will help you.
Quote from: berwyn senator on July 15, 2015, 03:03:24 PM
There was just a shooting in Brookfield! Light outside children playing,interesting no one talks about the incident does any one pay attention? Berwyn residents were hard working and were able to save a considerable amounts of money.Cermak road was known as the wall street of the midwest.Schools were some of the best in the state. If you need to know about gangs stop by the local police dept. I am sure someone will help you.
Thanks. That shooting in Brookfield must have been a horrible thing for you to witness. Can you tell me if any children were shot? Who did the shooting?
My other question about identifying gang members still stands. You seem to know a lot about how they dress and hang out!
It's sad that nobody in Berwyn is hard-working anymore.
One kid was shot,the two bangers took off,police have not found the shooters. Explaining how to identify the different gangs would take some time,the police dept. had a booklet explaining gangs. Berwyn once was a skilled hard working town,the money supported many S&L's on Cormack Road.
Quote from: berwyn senator on July 15, 2015, 09:28:27 PM
One kid was shot,the two bangers took off,police have not found the shooters. Explaining how to identify the different gangs would take some time,the police dept. had a booklet explaining gangs. Berwyn once was a skilled hard working town,the money supported many S&L's on Cormack Road.
Well, you said you were educated on gangs! How did you identify the gang members who shot the kid in the park in Brookfield? What did you see when you witnessed the shooting that made you say, "Hey, those are gang members!"
I don't trust the Berwyn police's opinion on this because as you say, Berwyn is no longer a hard-working town so the cops must not be working hard. You're more educated on this, so I want to hear from you.
"For a period Cermak Road earned the nickname "The Bohemian Wall Street" due to the large number of savings and loans located there. In 1991 the Chicago Sun-Times reported that "Berwyn has the highest concentration of financial institutions in the world - a tribute to the frugality of its forebears." The savings and loan crisis of the 1980s hit the area especially hard."
I would have no reason not to trust the police,they work with other suburbs under the command of the Riverside police chief.This group has done an excellent job with crime and the gangs.After the S&L crisis the Towns of Berwyn and Cicero started to change. I did not see the shooting a friend did and passed the info to me.
Quote from: berwyn senator on July 16, 2015, 11:57:04 AMI did not see the shooting a friend did and passed the info to me.
That's odd. We were talking about the gang activity you yourself witnessed---you told me that I should "just ride around the neighborhood." What do you see when you "ride around"? How do you identify gang members?
Most blind men could identify gang members! Please don't try and put words in my mouth,I have been around many years,I am sure your not that naive!
Quote from: berwyn senator on July 16, 2015, 09:31:39 PM
Most blind men could identify gang members! Please don't try and put words in my mouth,I have been around many years,I am sure your not that naive!
How do you know that "Children who are left on their own,while parents work sometimes look to gangs as their family." Where did you learn this?
Markberwyn, do you seriously not see these things happening?
Quote from: Suzy Q on July 16, 2015, 10:37:26 PM
Markberwyn, do you seriously not see these things happening?
I have no doubt that "these things" are happening. I just think mr. senator has some dubious surmises about the root causes of "these things," so I've been encouraging him to explain the sources of his thinking. (Thin air, best as I can tell.)
Opinions are like assholes,everyone has one!
Quote from: berwyn senator on July 17, 2015, 10:20:56 AM
Opinions are like assholes,everyone has one!
Except we're not talking about opinions. We're talking about facts. Where did you acquire your "facts" about gang members and dual-income households? You were a product of high-quality Berwyn schools, so I'm assuming you know how to distinguish fact from opinion, and identify credible sources.
Let me say this,years working in different parts of Chicago,many different suburbs,dealing with many people from all walks of life,has bought me to understand the different family units.Children from these families no matter what the income, can and do belong to gangs. I still suggest contacting your local police dept. they have a wealth of information.While in Bridge Port at a mold makers shop,I noticed steel windows, the owners were in the process of telling me about the steel windows,when two gang members started shooting at each other.They were dressed in long black coats hiding their weapons,when shots hit the windows I moved to the back of the shop.Cops were called but didn't respond promptly,didn't stop and left. I forget the name of the gang but still remember their dress.The questions you ask would be very lengthy to write about.
Quote from: berwyn senator on July 17, 2015, 01:23:37 PMThe questions you ask would be very lengthy to write about.
I've only had one question, and it doesn't require much effort to answer: What information did you, as a well-educated person, consult to arrive at the conclusion that dual-income households are a target for gang recruitment? You might give the title of the particular book, article, or research report you read. You might offer the name of the gang expert you spoke with, or heard speak. (I think we can agree as educated people---though you are better educated than I am---that looking around or talking with your buddies would not be a good substitute for expertise.) You could explain it in one sentence. It's not hard. As a well-educated person, you've delivered much more complex information at much greater length, I'm sure.