The city is proposing to the city council this week the issuance of a new $30 million dollar bond to shore up the pension fund. This will increase property taxes for most people in Berwyn by $100 to $200. This would be on top of the property tax increase due to the D100 tax rate increase that passed in referendum (which will increase most people's taxes by between $150 to $250) and will be on top of any tax changes due to the triennial reassessment. I have a feeling that if people had know about this bond and the reassessments before the referendum for the D100 tax rate increase, it might not have passed.
I am guessing my taxes will increase by about $1000 or more next year, if taxes across the board go up by about 10% due to the reassessment, and then add on about $300 due to the District 100 increase and now another $250 for pensions! This is getting utterly ridiculous. What are they doing with all the money they collect? Berwyn has one of the highest tax rates in the metro area.
I voted "NO" on the District 100 tax increase, but I doubt most residents knew it was on the ballot. The district knew there would be fewer voters in the general election than in the primary. Smart, but very sneaky.
Quote from: berwynres on May 25, 2017, 12:38:37 PMBerwyn has one of the highest tax rates in the metro area.
What's the evidence for this? What I'm seeing is that Berwyn's is lower than at least a dozen Cook County municipalities, including Forest View, Bridgeview, and Cicero.
Quote from: berwynres on May 25, 2017, 12:38:37 PM
I am guessing my taxes will increase by about $1000 or more next year, if taxes across the board go up by about 10% due to the reassessment, and then add on about $300 due to the District 100 increase and now another $250 for pensions! This is getting utterly ridiculous. What are they doing with all the money they collect? Berwyn has one of the highest tax rates in the metro area.
I have explained this in other places, but the increase in reassessment does not cause a linear increase in taxes. If everyone' reassessment goes up by the same amount, then your taxes paid into Berwyn will not increase because of the re-assessment.
Tax levies are allowed to increase only by the cost of living. The tax levy is like a pie - the reassessment just indicate how big your piece of the pie is. It does not increase the size of the pie itself (for Berwyn taxing bodies).
The reassessment will increase your taxes if Berwyn reassessments increased more (in relative terms) than the rest of Cook County.
Also, if your reassessment was relatively higher than your neighbors in Berwyn, it will also increase the taxes.
I believe that the largest cause of any tax increase in July will be the increase in the D100 tax rate and the $30 million dollar bond by the city, not the reassessment, since all Berwyn houses had an increased reassessment.
FYI, my reassessment increase was 21%. I guess we'll have to wait to see what the tax bill is in July. I am expecting a $180 increase due to D100 tax rate increase and a $150 dollar increase because of the $30 million dollar bond.
I have no way of determining what the assessment will do but I do not think it will be much. I guess we'll see in July.
Quote from: Ted on May 25, 2017, 05:21:07 PM
Quote from: berwynres on May 25, 2017, 12:38:37 PM
I am guessing my taxes will increase by about $1000 or more next year, if taxes across the board go up by about 10% due to the reassessment, and then add on about $300 due to the District 100 increase and now another $250 for pensions! This is getting utterly ridiculous. What are they doing with all the money they collect? Berwyn has one of the highest tax rates in the metro area.
I have explained this in other places, but the increase in reassessment does not cause a linear increase in taxes. If everyone' reassessment goes up by the same amount, then your taxes paid into Berwyn will not increase because of the re-assessment.
Tax levies are allowed to increase only by the cost of living. The tax levy is like a pie - the reassessment just indicate how big your piece of the pie is. It does not increase the size of the pie itself (for Berwyn taxing bodies).
The reassessment will increase your taxes if Berwyn reassessments increased more (in relative terms) than the rest of Cook County.
Also, if your reassessment was relatively higher than your neighbors in Berwyn, it will also increase the taxes.
I believe that the largest cause of any tax increase in July will be the increase in the D100 tax rate and the $30 million dollar bond by the city, not the reassessment, since all Berwyn houses had an increased reassessment.
FYI, my reassessment increase was 21%. I guess we'll have to wait to see what the tax bill is in July. I am expecting a $180 increase due to D100 tax rate increase and a $150 dollar increase because of the $30 million dollar bond.
I have no way of determining what the assessment will do but I do not think it will be much. I guess we'll see in July.
Well, Ted, I hope you are correct. But, I am expecting the worst, since my property taxes increased over $600 from 2013 to 2015, and that was despite winning an appeal in 2014 to reduce my estimated market value.
Quote from: berwynres on June 02, 2017, 10:12:37 AM
Well, Ted, I hope you are correct. But, I am expecting the worst, since my property taxes increased over $600 from 2013 to 2015, and that was despite winning an appeal in 2014 to reduce my estimated market value.
I hope I am right as well. I have no way of knowing. I do expect around a $500 increase for me. I guess we'll see in July.
Quote from: Ted on June 02, 2017, 10:23:55 AM
Quote from: berwynres on June 02, 2017, 10:12:37 AM
Well, Ted, I hope you are correct. But, I am expecting the worst, since my property taxes increased over $600 from 2013 to 2015, and that was despite winning an appeal in 2014 to reduce my estimated market value.
I hope I am right as well. I have no way of knowing. I do expect around a $500 increase for me. I guess we'll see in July.
Expect the worst and keep on expecting the worst. With the new reassessments most taxpayers in Berwyn who don't pay attention to things will find themselves with a much higher mortgage payment come August 1st of next year. And in case I upset anyone with Berwyn's tax rate, it is 15.471 while Riverside's is 12.563. Yes, the town to the west with schools that people pay big bucks to get into has a much lower tax rate than Berwyn, the town where people pay big bucks to get out of. Brookfield's tax rate is 13.279, another town with better schools. Why is our tax rate so high compared to neighboring suburbs? I'd like to hear about that.
What's your source for these tax rates? A handful of people say that Berwyn is overtaxed compared to other suburbs, but when I ask for evidence of that, they skedaddle like fraidy-cats. Which isn't a very Berwyn way to behave! Real Berwynites fearlessly back up their claims.
Quote from: MRS. NORTHSIDER on July 06, 2017, 05:07:22 PM
Expect the worst and keep on expecting the worst. With the new reassessments most taxpayers in Berwyn who don't pay attention to things will find themselves with a much higher mortgage payment come August 1st of next year. And in case I upset anyone with Berwyn's tax rate, it is 15.471 while Riverside's is 12.563. Yes, the town to the west with schools that people pay big bucks to get into has a much lower tax rate than Berwyn, the town where people pay big bucks to get out of. Brookfield's tax rate is 13.279, another town with better schools. Why is our tax rate so high compared to neighboring suburbs? I'd like to hear about that.
Mrs. N, the tax rate is inversely proportional to the Equalized Assessed Value (EAV) of a taxing body. The higher the EAV, the lower the tax rate and vice versa. Thus, towns with high assessed values have a low tax rate and towns with a low assessed value have higher tax rates.
Go look at the tax rates of some of the poorer suburbs (like Ford Heights). Last time I looked, the Ford Heights school district had a tax rate of $10, far far higher than any other school district. That is because the assessed values of the properties are much lower.
The levies and EAV determine the tax rate, not the other way around. And levies can increase by only the cost of living (unless the taxing body issues more new debt or the voters approve a tax rate increase in a referendum. When D100 approved a tax rate increase, they were essentially approving anincrease in the amount that can be levied).
For example, if two towns levy the exact same amount of money (say $20 million) but Town1 has an EAV of $100 billion and Town 2 has an EAV of $200 billion, then Town 2 will have a tax rate will be half of the tax rate of Town1, even though the levies are exactly the same.
A more accurate figure is to look at the property taxes paid, on average, by each house hold. Oak Park and Riverside pay more taxes per household than Berwyn.
Also, FYI, the re-assessments and the D100 tax increase and the $30 million bond issued by the city of Berwyn will not affect taxes until 2018. The taxes you see in July of 2017 do not have those additions in them.
Quote from: markberwyn on July 06, 2017, 06:28:37 PM
What's your source for these tax rates? A handful of people say that Berwyn is overtaxed compared to other suburbs, but when I ask for evidence of that, they skedaddle like fraidy-cats. Which isn't a very Berwyn way to behave! Real Berwynites fearlessly back up their claims.
Let's see. My tax bill for Berwyn due August 1st and the Cook County Clerk's office for the others. It's official.
Quote from: Ted on July 07, 2017, 11:44:11 AM
A more accurate figure is to look at the property taxes paid, on average, by each house hold. Oak Park and Riverside pay more taxes per household than Berwyn.
Golly, it's almost as if higher property taxes, higher housing values, and quality of schools are correlated!
Quote from: markberwyn on July 07, 2017, 01:00:30 PM
Quote from: Ted on July 07, 2017, 11:44:11 AM
A more accurate figure is to look at the property taxes paid, on average, by each house hold. Oak Park and Riverside pay more taxes per household than Berwyn.
Golly, it's almost as if higher property taxes, higher housing values, and quality of schools are correlated!
Not always. I found a property in Brookfield with the same assessed valuation as mine, with the 1 exemption that I have. The property taxes on it are almost $900 lower than mine.
This is almost as good as the time a Morton kid got into Harvard and you said Morton is a good school. You care about aggregate numbers until the aggregate numbers tell you something that contradicts whatever upside-down narrative you have going on in your head.
Quote from: MRS. NORTHSIDER on July 07, 2017, 02:05:24 PM
Not always. I found a property in Brookfield with the same assessed valuation as mine, with the 1 exemption that I have. The property taxes on it are almost $900 lower than mine.
Your original statement was about tax rate, not about property tax per household. You would need to look at the total EAV of the taxing body, not just a single property, to determine the tax rate.
Also, it is tricky to compare assessments across townships, given the way the assessor's office works. Your assessment may be the same but you may be getting more house for the money than the house in Brookfield. An assessment in Berwyn may not be the same as an assessment in Brookfield.
However, depending on where you live in Brookfield, you may find a property tax for a particular house to be less than yours. It all depends on the elementary school district and the high school district.
The city of Berwyn also has a high debt, which increases taxes. A few years ago, when I compared city of Berwyn to Oak Park village a few years ago, I found the property tax per house to be almost the same. Oak Park taxed more for services than the city of Berwyn but the city of Berwyn had such a high debt, the property taxes per household were almost the same.
What is the pin number of the property in Brookfield that you say has the same assessment as yours? You say that both had a single exemption. But, were they the same exemption?
Quote from: Ted on July 08, 2017, 07:41:55 AM
Quote from: MRS. NORTHSIDER on July 07, 2017, 02:05:24 PM
Not always. I found a property in Brookfield with the same assessed valuation as mine, with the 1 exemption that I have. The property taxes on it are almost $900 lower than mine.
Your original statement was about tax rate, not about property tax per household. You would need to look at the total EAV of the taxing body, not just a single property, to determine the tax rate.
Also, it is tricky to compare assessments across townships, given the way the assessor's office works. Your assessment may be the same but you may be getting more house for the money than the house in Brookfield. An assessment in Berwyn may not be the same as an assessment in Brookfield.
However, depending on where you live in Brookfield, you may find a property tax for a particular house to be less than yours. It all depends on the elementary school district and the high school district.
The city of Berwyn also has a high debt, which increases taxes. A few years ago, when I compared city of Berwyn to Oak Park village a few years ago, I found the property tax per house to be almost the same. Oak Park taxed more for services than the city of Berwyn but the city of Berwyn had such a high debt, the property taxes per household were almost the same.
What is the pin number of the property in Brookfield that you say has the same assessment as yours? You say that both had a single exemption. But, were they the same exemption?
It was the homeowners exemption, no senior and no senior freeze. Of course, it makes sense that it would be lower. Their tax rate is lower which is what I am trying to point out. A home with the same assessed valuation in a town in Cook County with a lower tax rate will have lower taxes. Our tax rate keeps on going higher and higher. In 2012 it was 12.337, our latest tax year 2016 it is 15.471. With the increased tax rates, our taxes will keep on going higher and higher.
What do you feel is an appropriate tax rate for you to pay? You're tracking tax rates very closely, so you must have an idea in your head.
Mrs. N, one cannot look at tax rates in a vacuum. Tax rates alone are not going to give you the full picture without knowing collective EAV of a taxing body (rather than an individual house) or without knowing the levy.
Let me repeat - The levy and the collective assessed value of the taxing body determine the tax rate.
Here is the example - Assume two towns levy $20 million dollars and both towns have 10,000 residents. That is an average of $2,000 per house.
Also assume that the average house in Town A is assessed at $150,000 and the average house in Town B is assessed at $100,000. Town A has an EAV of $1.5 billion and Town B has a assessed value of $1 billion. Town A will have a tax rate that is 66% of the tax rate of Town B even though the average tax per household is the same.
What is the PIN # of this house in Brookfield? What is the average assessed value of a house in Brookfield versus the assessed value of a house in Berwyn?
FYI, I worked with someone who grew up in Brookfield (near 47th street near the Lyons border) in a small 2 bedroom raised ranch. The homes in that part of Brookfield are similar to homes in south Berwyn (if not smaller).
Quote from: markberwyn on July 08, 2017, 11:16:17 AM
What do you feel is an appropriate tax rate for you to pay? You're tracking tax rates very closely, so you must have an idea in your head.
One that doesn't rise so much that I will soon be taxed out of a home I lived in for almost 23 years. Riverside's tax rate went from 10.947 in 2012 to 12.563 in 2016. Brookfield's went from 11.589 in 2012 to 13.279 in 2016. Again, in that same time frame Berwyn's went from 12.337 to 15.471.
Quote from: Ted on July 08, 2017, 11:44:48 AM
Mrs. N, one cannot look at tax rates in a vacuum. Tax rates alone are not going to give you the full picture without knowing collective EAV of a taxing body (rather than an individual house) or without knowing the levy.
Let me repeat - The levy and the collective assessed value of the taxing body determine the tax rate.
Here is the example - Assume two towns levy $20 million dollars and both towns have 10,000 residents. That is an average of $2,000 per house.
Also assume that the average house in Town A is assessed at $150,000 and the average house in Town B is assessed at $100,000. Town A has an EAV of $1.5 billion and Town B has a assessed value of $1 billion. Town A will have a tax rate that is 66% of the tax rate of Town B even though the average tax per household is the same.
What is the PIN # of this house in Brookfield? What is the average assessed value of a house in Brookfield versus the assessed value of a house in Berwyn?
FYI, I worked with someone who grew up in Brookfield (near 47th street near the Lyons border) in a small 2 bedroom raised ranch. The homes in that part of Brookfield are similar to homes in south Berwyn (if not smaller).
She doesn't care about any of this, Ted, not really---she just resents paying for education. She's said on this board before that having to pay for her own daughter's education made her sick to her stomach.
Quote from: MRS. NORTHSIDER on July 08, 2017, 11:48:15 AM
Quote from: markberwyn on July 08, 2017, 11:16:17 AM
What do you feel is an appropriate tax rate for you to pay? You're tracking tax rates very closely, so you must have an idea in your head.
One that doesn't rise so much that I will soon be taxed out of a home I lived in for almost 23 years. Riverside's tax rate went from 10.947 in 2012 to 12.563 in 2016. Brookfield's went from 11.589 in 2012 to 13.279 in 2016. Again, in that same time frame Berwyn's went from 12.337 to 15.471.
If this is the logic you're going to cling to, move to Winnetka. The rate there is 7.899.
Quote from: markberwyn on July 08, 2017, 11:55:06 AM
Quote from: MRS. NORTHSIDER on July 08, 2017, 11:48:15 AM
Quote from: markberwyn on July 08, 2017, 11:16:17 AM
What do you feel is an appropriate tax rate for you to pay? You're tracking tax rates very closely, so you must have an idea in your head.
One that doesn't rise so much that I will soon be taxed out of a home I lived in for almost 23 years. Riverside's tax rate went from 10.947 in 2012 to 12.563 in 2016. Brookfield's went from 11.589 in 2012 to 13.279 in 2016. Again, in that same time frame Berwyn's went from 12.337 to 15.471.
If this is the logic you're going to cling to, move to Winnetka. The rate there is 7.899.
For the vast majority of middle class families, that is the logic. Income certainly not rising anywhere near what the taxes are rising. Winnetka, really? Yes, I've been living in Berwyn all this time when I could have been living on the North Shore.
Quote from: MRS. NORTHSIDER on July 08, 2017, 12:16:18 PMWinnetka, really? Yes, I've been living in Berwyn all this time when I could have been living on the North Shore.
You get my point, then.
Quote from: markberwyn on July 08, 2017, 11:51:45 AM
Quote from: Ted on July 08, 2017, 11:44:48 AM
Mrs. N, one cannot look at tax rates in a vacuum. Tax rates alone are not going to give you the full picture without knowing collective EAV of a taxing body (rather than an individual house) or without knowing the levy.
Let me repeat - The levy and the collective assessed value of the taxing body determine the tax rate.
Here is the example - Assume two towns levy $20 million dollars and both towns have 10,000 residents. That is an average of $2,000 per house.
Also assume that the average house in Town A is assessed at $150,000 and the average house in Town B is assessed at $100,000. Town A has an EAV of $1.5 billion and Town B has a assessed value of $1 billion. Town A will have a tax rate that is 66% of the tax rate of Town B even though the average tax per household is the same.
What is the PIN # of this house in Brookfield? What is the average assessed value of a house in Brookfield versus the assessed value of a house in Berwyn?
FYI, I worked with someone who grew up in Brookfield (near 47th street near the Lyons border) in a small 2 bedroom raised ranch. The homes in that part of Brookfield are similar to homes in south Berwyn (if not smaller).
She doesn't care about any of this, Ted, not really---she just resents paying for education. She's said on this board before that having to pay for her own daughter's education made her sick to her stomach.
FYI, I voted yes on the District 100 referendum.
Quote from: MRS. NORTHSIDER on July 08, 2017, 04:25:35 PMFYI, I voted yes on the District 100 referendum.
And you've done nothing but whine about how much you're taxed ever since.
Quote from: markberwyn on July 08, 2017, 04:42:53 PM
Quote from: MRS. NORTHSIDER on July 08, 2017, 04:25:35 PMFYI, I voted yes on the District 100 referendum.
And you've done nothing but whine about how much you're taxed ever since.
I'm certainly not the only homeowner who is perturbed over the ever increasing taxes. I can't wait to see what will happen when some of the new homeowners on my block get their new tax bills. The hospital owned the houses and had the assessed valuation reduced to a ridiculously low amount because of course a for profit entity certainly couldn't afford what the rest of us have to pay. One of the newly rehabbed homes which previously had taxes of $2900 now has 2016 taxes of a little over $10000. Another up for sale is showing taxes of $2200 when the taxes due are $7200. Those are without a homeowners exemption but that is only about $1100. The new assessment with taxes due next August has gone way up on these homes. I wonder how many new foreclosures I will be seeing within a year or two.
Unbelievable, this attitude. Real Berwynites used to take pride in taking care of their communities and their schools. Now there's this weak-kneed "lowur muh taxes!" keening and whining about paying into the system, and scaremongering about foreclosures whenever the tax rate ticks up, even a little---this after decades of the community's refusal to pay into the schools.
Quote from: markberwyn on July 08, 2017, 06:37:18 PM
Unbelievable, this attitude. Real Berwynites used to take pride in taking care of their communities and their schools. Now there's this weak-kneed "lowur muh taxes!" keening and whining about paying into the system, and scaremongering about foreclosures whenever the tax rate ticks up, even a little---this after decades of the community's refusal to pay into the schools.
Wow, now I know how full of BS you are and you know nothing of REAL BERWYNITES. Real Berwynites when I moved here were people who saved their money, went out to eat not often and bought stuff on sale and had gardens full of stuff they canned. The community's refusal to pay into the schools stems from a mistrust of the people who were elected and their real masters. Obviously, that chain has been broken in District 100. When will it be broken in District 201?
Quote from: MRS. NORTHSIDER on July 08, 2017, 07:02:24 PM
Quote from: markberwyn on July 08, 2017, 06:37:18 PM
Unbelievable, this attitude. Real Berwynites used to take pride in taking care of their communities and their schools. Now there's this weak-kneed "lowur muh taxes!" keening and whining about paying into the system, and scaremongering about foreclosures whenever the tax rate ticks up, even a little---this after decades of the community's refusal to pay into the schools.
Wow, now I know how full of BS you are and you know nothing of REAL BERWYNITES. Real Berwynites when I moved here were people who saved their money, went out to eat not often and bought stuff on sale and had gardens full of stuff they canned. The community's refusal to pay into the schools stems from a mistrust of the people who were elected and their real masters. Obviously, that chain has been broken in District 100. When will it be broken in District 201?
I know, I know....when the elected officials in Berwyn and Cicero are absolutely perfect, the citizens---who elected those same people---will stop treating nickels like manhole covers and help the schools. In the meantime, kids' education needs to be back-burnered, and supporting it must be done in a spirit of grudging resentment.
What was the tax rate in Berwyn in the good old days when all the restaurants failed because nobody went to them? Did people resent educating their children back then, too?
Quote from: markberwyn on July 08, 2017, 07:28:11 PM
Quote from: MRS. NORTHSIDER on July 08, 2017, 07:02:24 PM
Quote from: markberwyn on July 08, 2017, 06:37:18 PM
Unbelievable, this attitude. Real Berwynites used to take pride in taking care of their communities and their schools. Now there's this weak-kneed "lowur muh taxes!" keening and whining about paying into the system, and scaremongering about foreclosures whenever the tax rate ticks up, even a little---this after decades of the community's refusal to pay into the schools.
Wow, now I know how full of BS you are and you know nothing of REAL BERWYNITES. Real Berwynites when I moved here were people who saved their money, went out to eat not often and bought stuff on sale and had gardens full of stuff they canned. The community's refusal to pay into the schools stems from a mistrust of the people who were elected and their real masters. Obviously, that chain has been broken in District 100. When will it be broken in District 201?
I know, I know....when the elected officials in Berwyn and Cicero are absolutely perfect, the citizens---who elected those same people---will stop treating nickels like manhole covers and help the schools. In the meantime, kids' education needs to be back-burnered, and supporting it must be done in a spirit of grudging resentment.
What was the tax rate in Berwyn in the good old days when all the restaurants failed because nobody went to them? Did people resent educating their children back then, too?
Restaurants and schools in the same equation? WTF are you talking about? Obviously, you have a personal grudge here. If you went to school in Berwyn back in the day, I would say your parents obviously get their tax dollars worth.
Quote from: MRS. NORTHSIDER on July 08, 2017, 12:16:18 PM
Quote from: markberwyn on July 08, 2017, 11:55:06 AM
Quote from: MRS. NORTHSIDER on July 08, 2017, 11:48:15 AM
Quote from: markberwyn on July 08, 2017, 11:16:17 AM
What do you feel is an appropriate tax rate for you to pay? You're tracking tax rates very closely, so you must have an idea in your head.
One that doesn't rise so much that I will soon be taxed out of a home I lived in for almost 23 years. Riverside's tax rate went from 10.947 in 2012 to 12.563 in 2016. Brookfield's went from 11.589 in 2012 to 13.279 in 2016. Again, in that same time frame Berwyn's went from 12.337 to 15.471.
If this is the logic you're going to cling to, move to Winnetka. The rate there is 7.899.
For the vast majority of middle class families, that is the logic. Income certainly not rising anywhere near what the taxes are rising. Winnetka, really? Yes, I've been living in Berwyn all this time when I could have been living on the North Shore.
Mrs. N, MarkBerwyn's example is the point I am trying to make. More affluent communities have lower tax rates and poorer communities have higher tax rates because tax rates are in inverse proportion (for the most part) to property values.
The fallacy of looking at assessements alone and then multiplying by the tax rate in a township is that it is not valid to compare assessments across townships. Even within a township it is dicey.
What $140,000 will buy in Berwyn is not the same as what $140,000 will buy in Oak Park or Riverside.
I will use my house as an example. The assessor's office fair market value for my house is $140,000. It is a corner house with a 2 and 1/2 car garage, a quarter lot next to it, a finished basement, a walk up upstairs and two bathrooms. It is a block from the metra station. That is what is worth $140,000 in Berwyn in the area where I live.
How much do you think I can get for $140,000 in Oak Park or Riverside. Not much. I doubt I could even get a studio condo in Oak Park for $140,000, much less a corner house with a 2 and 1/2 car garage near the metra for $140,000.
So, if you want to say an assessed property with the same assessed value in Oak Park pays less than a property with the same assessed value in Berwyn because of the tax rate, you have to realize that that property in Oak Park does not have the same characteristics and is probably much smaller.
Does that make sense? The Trib did an article about 3 to 4 weeks ago about the goofy way the assessor's office does assessments.
But, again, the fallacy of your argument is that $140,000 in Berwyn buys a bigger house that what you can get for $140,000 in Oak Park or Riverside.
Quote from: Ted on July 08, 2017, 07:59:14 PM
Quote from: MRS. NORTHSIDER on July 08, 2017, 12:16:18 PM
Quote from: markberwyn on July 08, 2017, 11:55:06 AM
Quote from: MRS. NORTHSIDER on July 08, 2017, 11:48:15 AM
Quote from: markberwyn on July 08, 2017, 11:16:17 AM
What do you feel is an appropriate tax rate for you to pay? You're tracking tax rates very closely, so you must have an idea in your head.
One that doesn't rise so much that I will soon be taxed out of a home I lived in for almost 23 years. Riverside's tax rate went from 10.947 in 2012 to 12.563 in 2016. Brookfield's went from 11.589 in 2012 to 13.279 in 2016. Again, in that same time frame Berwyn's went from 12.337 to 15.471.
If this is the logic you're going to cling to, move to Winnetka. The rate there is 7.899.
For the vast majority of middle class families, that is the logic. Income certainly not rising anywhere near what the taxes are rising. Winnetka, really? Yes, I've been living in Berwyn all this time when I could have been living on the North Shore.
Mrs. N, MarkBerwyn's example is the point I am trying to make. More affluent communities have lower tax rates and poorer communities have higher tax rates because tax rates are in inverse proportion (for the most part) to property values.
The fallacy of looking at assessements alone and then multiplying by the tax rate in a township is that it is not valid to compare assessments across townships. Even within a township it is dicey.
What $140,000 will buy in Berwyn is not the same as what $140,000 will buy in Oak Park or Riverside.
I will use my house as an example. The assessor's office fair market value for my house is $140,000. It is a corner house with a 2 and 1/2 car garage, a quarter lot next to it, a finished basement, a walk up upstairs and two bathrooms. It is a block from the metra station. That is what is worth $140,000 in Berwyn in the area where I live.
How much do you think I can get for $140,000 in Oak Park or Riverside. Not much. I doubt I could even get a studio condo in Oak Park for $140,000, much less a corner house with a 2 and 1/2 car garage near the metra for $140,000.
So, if you want to say an assessed property with the same assessed value in Oak Park pays less than a property with the same assessed value in Berwyn because of the tax rate, you have to realize that that property in Oak Park does not have the same characteristics and is probably much smaller.
Does that make sense? The Trib did an article about 3 to 4 weeks ago about the goofy way the assessor's office does assessments.
But, again, the fallacy of your argument is that $140,000 in Berwyn buys a bigger house that what you can get for $140,000 in Oak Park or Riverside.
The truth of my argument is no matter what my $140,000 assessment is in Berwyn it does not buy me Oak Park or Riverside schools, does it? However much the assessments goes up here, I'm sure I still live in Berwyn.
Quote from: MRS. NORTHSIDER on July 12, 2017, 05:31:17 PM
The truth of my argument is no matter what my $140,000 assessment is in Berwyn it does not buy me Oak Park or Riverside schools, does it? However much the assessments goes up here, I'm sure I still live in Berwyn.
I agree. But, we don't pay the high taxes that Riverside or Oak Park levy for their school districts either.
I guess Mrs. Northsider's dream that a Morton grad getting into Harvard would help improve the schools didn't quite pan out. Maybe the schools actually need money.
I have a hard time believing money is always the answer togged schools.May be politics should be removed period!
Quote from: berwyn senator on July 13, 2017, 10:52:36 AM
I have a hard time believing money is always the answer togged schools.May be politics should be removed period!
Hard to hire and retain quality teachers without money.... right?
Sorry for the mistake! Teachers teach because they want to not because of pay levels.Plenty of good teachers are run out of the public school system.Why do they go into teaching at a private school? I have spoken to many and the majority have the same answer I love to teach. Not having to deal with Unions,politics,the children come first.
Quote from: berwyn senator on July 15, 2017, 02:45:24 PM
Sorry for the mistake! Teachers teach because they want to not because of pay levels.Plenty of good teachers are run out of the public school system.Why do they go into teaching at a private school?
I know! I know! It's because teachers get paid less at private schools, right? They simply get to indulge their love of teaching without the distractions of money.
Which private, nonunionized school awarded you your Master's Degree, senator?
Don't be an asshole!!!!!!!! Grow up!!!!!!
While senator struggles to get hold of emotions---not respectable Berwyn behavior, I should say---I think it's worth pointing out that private schools do indeed pay less money. But this is really a matter of economic incentives and disincentives, not the "loving to teach" nonsense senator is talking about. (Clearly, senator didn't earn his Master's in economics.)
On the whole, public-school teachers have a tougher job, from more students per classroom to more disciplinary responsibilities, and so forth. Private schools are free to reject the children in situations that require the most help---unfavorable family situations, IEPs, academic struggles---so the teachers there have an easier go of it. Private schools can select out the "problem" students; public schools cannot, excepting expulsion-grade circumstances. If you have a "fuck those kids anyway" attitude, voucher programs and private schools sound super-duper-appealing; if you believe every child deserves an opportunity for a decent education, because that makes for a better society overall, senator's enthusiasm for private schools and resistance to increased public-school funding sounds less super-duper appealing.
That predicament is especially true in communities like Berwyn, where the community has resisted helping schoolchildren for so long that the districts have to pay a higher incentive to keep teachers in their positions. More teachers would reduce the student-teacher ratio and improve the teaching environment, but Berwyn has historically been disinclined to provide that support.
More here:
https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/why-are-private-school-teachers-paid-less-than-public-school-teachers/280829/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/why-are-private-school-teachers-paid-less-than-public-school-teachers/280829/)
Do you have experience a a teacher?and where?
Quote from: berwyn senator on July 18, 2017, 01:12:00 PM
Do you have experience a a teacher?and where?
You first---what is your Master's Degree in, and what institution awarded it to you?
Chicken!!!!!!
Good talk, senator.