I had a Berwyn Police Department Citizen Police Academy Alumni meeting this evening, so I arrived late. We had a State's Attorney from the Juvenile Division give us a presentation last nite and his presentation ran long due to stupid questions. In fact, I was done dealing with dealing with stupidity before I even got to the council meeting.
(Not that the CPA is full of stupidity, but a select few can ask the dumbest questions, rudely interrupting the presenter, and preventing the rest of us from getting the information. There's always chaff with the wheat. I go to hear the experts speak, not them.)
So I'll pick up with what I gathered after I got there, as I'm trying to be a good reporter for ya'll... still for free I'd like to point out.
(D) BID OPENING - TABULATIONS
3. 2006 MFT MAINT-SEWER CLEANING & TELEVISING - Wait, we can't televise council meetings but we can televise the cleaning of sewers? I wonder if we'll find any illegal apartments down there.
(F) REPORTS AND COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE MAYOR
3. VETO- ORD. 06-26-1523 CLARENCE – This is the 25 foot lot that was going to open the gates to the netherworld and allow Gozer and his army of ghouls, demons, and those bad ass dog things to wreak havoc on our fine city.
4. MACNEAL PROPOSAL – This was deferred for two weeks so that things could be investigated. I guess The Mayor wanted to push it right thru, but some of the Aldermen want assurance that MacNeal will do what they promise to do.
5. ORD-DOLLARS FOR SCHOLARS – This was denied. Apparently The Mayor wanted members of this board to be appointed by him at the council's approval. Here we go again... Rumor on the street is that is was yet another power grab.
6. APPTS- MEMBERS TODOLLARS FOR SCHOLARS - Margaret Kelly and Michael Kant (sic) were The Mayor's hand picked appointments... Even though they weren't the clerk's appointees approved by the council two weeks ago. Apparently the two appointees from the clerk were not popular with The Mayor and he went another direction. Since F5 was denied, he didn't have the power to install them and the motion was denied.
But during the discussion, Alderman Phelan pointed out that the communication didn't make any sense since the term "Commenced on (X date) and began on (X date)..." probably meaning commenced and ended... Phelan asked if The Mayor wrote the communication himself. I'd like to remind the Alderman that the snarky comments are best left to me.
Alderman Lovero questioned why The Mayor chose to go another direction and that he explain it. The Mayor declined stating that he asked the clerk for information but did not receive it. The clerk explained that he did give it to The Mayor despite his vague request and questioned why the appointments were made without his input.
The clerk is currently in charge of Dollars for Scholars. Who needs his input?
7. APPTS-MEMBERS TO ADVISORY BD. This was approved with no discussion.
8. AMEND ORD 242.11-RETIREMENT AGE - POLICE & FIREMEN - This was approved. The retirement age was raised to 65.
9. REQ. PROPOSAL-CITY PHONE SYSTEM - This was referred to COW.
10. SETTLEMENT CASE #98 CH 5500 - Cha-Ching!
11. ADVERTISE FOR NEW COMPLIANCE INSPECTOR – This was approved. We'll be waiving the hiring freeze to hire someone to seek and destroy illegal apartments for $15 to $20 an hour.
12. FINANCE DEPT. ADM. ASSISTANT - In accordance to the Financial Director's wishes, the job description of the Admin Assistant will include accountant duties, the pay will be adjusted, and the accountant position eliminated. I heard it will be 30K a year. It'll be a savings of $17K per year. I'm not sure about you, but I don't know how that math works out, but a good accountant isn't working for it.
It was approved, but Aldermen Lovero and Erickson voted nay since it wasn't clear that the current AA could do the accounting. The Mayor pointed out that a previous communication stated that she's been doing it for a month and a half.... Month and a half? That's not exactly a trial period but..... what the heck, it's only money.
13. REQ FOR BIDS FOR DEPT. RELOCATION PROJECT - Apparently they want to do some moving and remodeling at City Hall. Building Dept on the first floor, Finance moving down... or something like that.
14. KRONOS TIMEKEEPING SYSTEM - Alderman Chapman, Phelan, Lovero, and Erickson voted nay. Chapman and Lovero had issues with the contract, not really sure what Phelan and Erickson were against. (Sometimes it's hard to tell if they're just voting nay to be difficult...)
The Mayor had the tie breaker and gave a little speech before doing so. He said that they vowed to watch tax payers' dollars and hold employees accountable. (Which I believe a few weeks ago he said wasn't the point of this.) Plus the auditors said that benefits weren't being tracked correctly. The Mayor said that he would gladly punch in and out and suggested the alderman do the same to show their constituents how much work they were doing.
Alderman Lovero asked for a key to City Hall so he could swipe his card whenever he was working...
15. MRA CONTRACT – This was approved with one full time and two part time positions opened up with the hiring freeze waived. That's three (counting two part time as one) new city jobs for scoon. Alderman Phelan voted nay because apparently he wants to see me homeless.
16. BIDS FOR MUNICIPAL WASTE - The bid was approved. The ad will go out July 7th, it's due August 7th, and will be approved August 22nd... Yeah right. Who wants to bet the over/under on the September 12th meeting?
17. JT. MTG.-COW & VILLAGE OF OAK PARK - The Mayor says it was historic and productive and they'll meet again in September with updates. That will give Alderman Erickson a little over two months to send another embarrassing letter to an Oak Park elected official.
(G) REPORTS AND COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE CITY CLERK
1. ORD 1274.13-NEW POOL INSTALLATION REQUIRING FENCE - This was referred to Ordinance and Resolutions, because a definition of pool is needed. You'd might think the definition was straight forward, but think about your neighbors and where you're living.
2. ORD. 1244.06-INCREASE ZONING FEES - This was referred to Ordinance and Resolutions
3. ORD 1258.12-VERBIAGE ON AWNINGS – This was approved as it was submitted. Now people passing by on the train might actually know that there are businesses underneath those awnings.
4. ORD 1244.01-AMEND ZBA COMPENSATION – I think the zoning board just got a raise. If one of them buys you a drink next time you see one, then you'll know.
5. ITEM J-15 OGDEN AVE. PAVERS -6/13/06 COUNCIL - New pavers for Ogden Ave... I'll take any extras for a small patio for my grill.... Just throwing it out there.
(H) COMMUNICATIONS FROM ( ZONING) BOARD OF APPEALS
1. REHEARING REQUEST.- VANGUARD HEALTH SYSTEMS-3301-27 EUCLID - This was skipped so I think it might have been moved up with the other MacNeal vote? Can anyone confirm?
2. RESOL-GROZDIC-1517 GROVE - The owner bought the home as a three flat two years ago. The city now says it's a two flat and the Zoning Board agrees. The council approved the override since it was the city's error two years ago and the current owner shouldn't be penalized for the city's mistake. Personally I agree. It's unfortunate, but I agree.
During the discussion Mr. Grozdic wanted to make a statement but was advised by The Mayor not to speak since the motion was going in his favor at the moment. Alderman Lovero, who represented Mr. Grozdic in the sale and was excused from the vote, concurred and no statement was made. Alderman Phelan got a bit heated since he's facing a similar situation and Alderman Erickson, always one to make friends, stated that the Building Department records are deplorable.
So is replying to all when sending a letter to the Oak Park President.
A big thumbs up to everyone for not referring to "previous administration". I'm surprised this golden opportunity was passed up.
(I) REPORTS AND COMMUNICATIONS FROM ALDERMEN, COMMITTEES OTHER BOARDS
AND COMMISSIONS
Alderman Chapman asked for the rules to be suspended and made a motion to refer the audit to budget. It was approved.
2. WEINER-TREE REMOVAL-6947 W. 31ST ST. – The motion was made to send this to the tree board. It was approved, but Alderman Phelan asked about a sister tree and Alderman Erickson asked why Alderman Weiner was wasting the council's time. Alderman Weiner said he was just following the procedure that Alderman Erickson laid out. Unfortunately according to Erickson snide comment, Weiner wasn't even close, and thus clinching the D-Face Award again this week.
3. BUDGET COMM-PAYROLL-6/27/06-$932,808.47 - This was approved but Alderman Phelan did vote nay and said "You know why." I heard more than a few people say "We do?" It was later stated that there are 6 persons on the payroll that he does not agree with.
I guess just to switch things up, Alderman Erickson voted in favor of it even though he doesn't agree with it. I guess that's an aye with an asterisk.
4. BUDGET COMM-PAYABLES-6/27/06-$744,899.92 - Alderman Phelan made a motion to vote on check 327291 to 24/7 plumbing separately. Alderman Chapman made such a motion. Then all hell broke loose. Dan LeBeau was called forward to explain what was done, but that wasn't the issue. Alderman Phelan trusts that the work was done, and that the payment should be made... he simply has an issue with the plumbing company being owned by The Mayor's secretary and her husband.
Was nothing learned from the fall out from sending resumes to the IVB office? Bad, bad politics.
Anyway, The Mayor wanted to know why no one had contacted him about this. Alderman Phelan asked why The Mayor didn't have the professional courtesy to contact him about the 1523 Clarence veto. The Mayor said that Alderman Phelan was out of order, which perhaps he was, if for no other reason than for taking the bait.
Anyway, it got to be a circus. Alderman Chapman tried to retract her original motion and refer it to COW instead. This went ignored for a while, but finally it was approved. The secretary's husband didn't like this and started to speak out from the audience about work he's done for the city for free.
Again I say, bad politics. Why risk even the appearance of impropriety? I wonder how The Independent would have handled this...
Finally the balance of the payables was approved...
(J) STAFF REPORTS
1. DEFER-H.R.-PUBLIC WKS. SECRETARY SALARY – A raise for the secretary was deferred and a referred (pronounced reefer-ed) to COW.
2. DEFER-REQ BPD-HANDICAPPED SIGN-F. CORONADO-1444 EAST AVE. – Alderman Erickson made a motion to accept the police department's recommendation to (pregnant pause) deny the application which was accepted. I guess he was trying to build up suspense. Bravisimo Alderman!
5. BLDG DIR-DEMOLITION REQUEST – This was sent to COW, but Alderman Phelan (who was clearly on fire last nite) didn't understand why we wouldn't want to allow a developer put in a new Washington Mutual instead of dragging it out as always.
Alderman Chapman wanted to know more about it and how it fit into the 22nd street overlay, which according to mutterings from the city collector, her investigations show that it doesn't. Not sure why the city collector is investigating this... but I don't know what her entire job description is.
6. BLDG DIR-TIME LIMIT FOR ZONING VARIATIONS – The council concurred with the Building Director's recommendation to extend zoning variation from six months to a year. Alderman Ramos and Brocato didn't see why it had to be extended claiming that six months is more than enough time. I guess, but why not extend it? What's the harm?
** I want to point out that the new life reporter left at this point (9:40pm), so anything after this is scoon exclusive... granted there really wasn't much left. She probably had the right idea actually.
7. COMMUNITY DEV-7TH YEAR CDBG ACTION PLAN - A motion was made to make this available for citizen review. I believe it will be at city hall and the library for those of you really into CDBG action plans. (Read: sickos)
8. BPD-REQ HANDICAPPED SIGN-E. SLAVICEK-3734 LOMBARD - Deferred for two weeks so the pronunciation of the last name can be confirmed.
9. BPD-REQ HANDICAPPED SIGN - E. KRSEK-1327 HARVEY – Denied for having three consonants in a row in the last name.
10. BPD-REQ HANDICAPPED SIGN- F. ALVAREZ-2509 ELMWOOD - Deferred because it was not given to correct aldermen.
11. BPD-REQ HANDICAPPED SIGN-M. KELLY-1932 WISCONSIN - Denied because they're Irish. -- Irish out of Berwyn!
(K) CONSENT AGENDA: ALL ITEMS ON THE CONSENT AGENDA ARE CONSIDERED TO BE ROUTINE IN NATURE AND
WILL BE ENACTED IN ONE MOTION. THERE WILL BE NO SEPARATE DISCUSSION OF THESE ITEMS UNLESS A COUNCIL MEMBER SO
REQUESTS, IN WHICH EVENT THE ITEM WILL BE REMOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA AND CONSIDERED AS THE FIRST ITEM AFTER
APPROVAL OF THE CONSENT AGENDA
The items below were approved. Set your calendars accordingly.
1. MORTON H.S.-HOMECOMING PARADE-10/7/06
2. CICERO CHAMBERS-INTERNATIONAL HOUBY FEST. AND PARADE-9/29 & 10/1/06
3. NBPD-30TH YR.ANNIVERSAY CELEBRATION-7/1/06
4. ACE HARDWARE-25TH ANNUAL SIDEWALK SALE-8/26/06
5. BLOCK PARTY-6400 & 6500 27TH ST.-8/19/06
6. BLOCK PARTY-6400 33RD ST. –7/15/06
7. BLOCK PARTY-3400 HOME-7/22/06
And that's the bitter end.
Clark
You missed the beginning of the meeting, which is when the fireworks started. First, there was the presentation of a new fireman, a commendation to a fireman who saved someone's life while he was off duty and the retirement of an 87 year old woman who has worked in Berwyn City Hall since 1959 (under 9 mayors). Also, the man who owns Garv's gave the city a check for $2,000.
Then the mayor vetoed the 25 foot lot proposal. Alderman Phelan read a statement on the veto in which he lashed out at the mayor and called him, among other things, a "control freak". Things went down hill from there.
I was surprised the Mayor kept his cool after Phelan read his statement. It's one thing to disagree with people on the pro's and con's of 25 foot lots. I just don't understand why it has to get personal or why people have to make personal attacks on each other.
The other interesting comment came on a vote (I forget which one) where one alderman said "This is much ado about nothing" and Alderman Erickson replied "No, this is much ado about everything".
- Jimmy Olson (police academy, my eye. I bet you were with superman somewhere)
BTW, doesn't the new reporter for the Life look like Johnna Kelly? At first, I thought the Life had hired Johnna back. Robert Carr must have cloned Johnna before she left.
You know, soneone should give Scoon a job just for writing this stuff! And good riddance to the Irish in Berwyn! Long live the degos! :coreyhart:
And what's your beef with the Irish???
Isn't it spelled dago's??
Does anyone know who the other two appointments for Dollars for Scholars were - the ones council approved two weeks ago??
Quote from: Shelley on June 28, 2006, 09:03:35 PM
Does anyone know who the other two appointments for Dollars for Scholars were - the ones council approved two weeks ago??
Shelley,
I think it was Aimee Sordelli and Jim Swiocinis. Not sure, though. A lot of names were thrown out and it was not clear to me whether Aimee and Jim were existing board members or the ones that Tom Pavlik wanted to appoint and for which the Mayor submitted two other people's name (one was Maragaret Kelly, not sure who the other person was).
Ted
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on June 28, 2006, 08:54:21 PM
And what's your beef with the Irish???
It was an obscure reference to one of the funnier posts I've read on this board.
http://www.berwyntalk.com/smf/index.php?topic=1495.msg22276#msg22276 (http://www.berwyntalk.com/smf/index.php?topic=1495.msg22276#msg22276)
This kraut has no beef with the Irish, unless it comes with cabbage. :P
Quote from: Ted Korbos on June 28, 2006, 09:08:07 PM
Quote from: Shelley on June 28, 2006, 09:03:35 PM
Does anyone know who the other two appointments for Dollars for Scholars were - the ones council approved two weeks ago??
Shelley,
I think it was Aimee Sordelli and Jim Swiocinis. Not sure, though. A lot of names were thrown out and it was not clear to me whether Aimee and Jim were existing board members or the ones that Tom Pavlik wanted to appoint and for which the Mayor submitted two other people's name (one was Maragaret Kelly, not sure who the other person was).
Ted
I believe that one of the clerk's nominees was District 98 School Board President Tony Laureto. I can't remember who the other was. The Mayor's appointees are in my re-cap (if you were an asshat I'd tell you that reading is a skill ;)), one was Margaret Kelly and the other was Michael Kant (spelled phonetically). To my knowledge Aimee and Jim are current members.
Irish out of Berwyn? Not this Irish woman. I know it was a joke, and I'm certainly not offended. However, it is to be noted that if it were said about another race this board would be shut down. It's always PC to poke fun at the Irish. We just laugh along with you. Why? Because WE MADE IT, and we know we are BETTER than most! Now don't you dare be offended with my joke, because I laughed at yours!
Quote from: pkd50 on June 29, 2006, 08:10:45 AM
Irish out of Berwyn? Not this Irish woman. I know it was a joke, and I'm certainly not offended. However, it is to be noted that if it were said about another race this board would be shut down. It's always PC to poke fun at the Irish. We just laugh along with you. Why? Because WE MADE IT, and we know we are BETTER than most! Now don't you dare be offended with my joke, because I laughed at yours!
Very true, very true. Glad some people understand my sense of humor. (read: bad)
Nothing more sexy than an Irish gal with her temper up. Yes sireeeee.
We never say temper. It's getting your Irish up and it's anything but sexy. It can be downright scary. We are a race of barbarians that drink all day and fight all night. Ask Scoon if you don't believe me.
Quote from: pkd50 on June 30, 2006, 06:19:41 AM
We never say temper. It's getting your Irish up and it's anything but sexy. It can be downright scary. We are a race of barbarians that drink all day and fight all night. Ask Scoon if you don't believe me.
It's true, she beat the hell out of me one nite cause I didn't get her a beer fast enough...
Who is "she"? I thought Mrs. Scoon only drank those Apple Martini's???
"she beat the hell out of me on nite"
hmmmm ON nite ... looks like we have another error. See, it doesn't matter if I make errors. I'm not Mr. Perfect.
Tell ya what. Let's both stop proofreading each other. Do you also correct people in person? Like when they mispronounce a word or sumthin?
Sexy ANGRY Irish chicks. I find angry women amusing. HENCE, I show the many scars from objects being thrown at me.
You're becoming tiring following scoon around.
You two should knock it off. Or get a room.
Brian
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on June 30, 2006, 09:52:13 AM
You're becoming tiring following scoon around.
You two should knock it off. Or get a room.
Brian
People with no merit have to tear down those that do.
The level of asshat on this board has really gone down hill. I miss Berwynite, Ruffian, BerwynTruth... at least you knew where they stood. They didn't point out typos. (Which really is that my error was, a typo... not making up words or making blatant, ignorant grammatical errors.) They had an opinion and defended it to the end no matter how unpopular it was. Unlike these current asshats who do nothing but poke holes while never taking a stand for anything.
Before God and everyone on this board, I promise to take Brian's advice and no longer respond to the negative venom and sheer ignorance spewed by BountyHunter. I won't let him drag me down any longer. I'm better than that and I apologize for feeding the troll.
...
But what really pisses me off is my thread has come to this. It makes me wonder why I bother spending my time writing these recaps...
Because a lot of folks appreciate it :-)
Same reason I leave this board up.
Cheers,
Brian
SCOON - There is nothing wrong with throwing a bone to a troll every now and then. It adds to the entertainment value of this board (more fun for me).
I'm not sure that BH is a troll but I too long for the days of the pitbull bite and don't let go approach of some of the past contrarians (Tisbuy).
But what really pisses me off is my thread has come to this. It makes me wonder why I bother spending my time writing these recaps...
[/quote]
Scoon -- please continue the recaps, if you can. It really is a public service -- and I wish there was a way to compensate you for your time, your expertise and the humor you inject-- thus making reading a recap of these meetings something to actually look forward to...
The trolls are boring. You are not.
LL...You can compensate Scoon at OoT tonite...
Im sure a donation of liquid libation will keep the recaps
coming
Quote from: scoon on June 30, 2006, 10:31:53 AM
... The level of asshat on this board has really gone down hill. I miss Berwynite, Ruffian, BerwynTruth...
Rumor has it that BerwynTruth has sold his house and skeedaddled out of town ;D ;D ;D
Does everybody know who Berwyn Truth is except me? Is he a former alderman, or am I guessing wrong?
Quote from: Bear on June 30, 2006, 11:32:37 AM
LL...You can compensate Scoon at OoT tonite...
Im sure a donation of liquid libation will keep the recaps
coming
I'll do alot of things for a liquid libation... and the list grows longer with each one I have.
pkd50,
I just joined the board this month...I don't know that is, either.
Quote from: pkd50 on June 30, 2006, 04:04:10 PM
Does everybody know who Berwyn Truth is except me? Is he a former alderman, or am I guessing wrong?
Pat,
None of us know for certain (at least I don't) but many of us do suspect he is a former alderrman. I suspected it because I received private emails from BerwynTruth which related things that only this former alderman would have known.
Ted
It has been too quiet here with some of the
special people gone
so I'm the bad guy, huh? This is a tough crowd.
Looks like you all know each other.
Let's see. It has been ascertained that I have no merit by a select few here, despite the fact I never met anyone from this group. I make spelling errors so I'm not worth talking to. Some guy pushes me to describe a gangbanger and when I turn the tables on him I am immediately perceived as the bad ass. What a friendly group. As far as posting what one might describe as valid or constructive opinions re: Berwyn, I see many people type stuff that is not particularly relevant or important. So, again, why am I singled out.
It's not my fault if Scoon leaves letters off of words. Typo. Typo my butt. Isn't he the one constantly ragging that reading is a skill? Doesn't he read what he types? The point has been that I don't think this chat room needs to have grammar/reading/typing/spelling police. That's all.
Then he posts disrespecting the Eagles. I can't let that go. Come on. Aren't there any people over 45 at this chat room? The only one who backed me up was Millieman (sp?).
scoon drew first blood when I was discussing with markberwyn. When I'm attacked I attack back. But it seems this chat room would give scoon two free hands and bind mine.
Lastly, responding to things people post is not following them around. He's on here 24/7. I post occasionally. He's got this idea he's a great writer. He's not. Fair. Too many buzz words (snarkly). Actually, after reading posts long before I came here, markberwyn is the best writer at this chat room. Doesn't mean scoon couldn't become a good writer, but for the moment he's fair at best.
as far as responding to me, seems like YOU'RE pretty thin skinned. What fraternity did you belong to? YOU'RE mad at yourself cause you made a spelling error (ok-typo-to be proven in a court of law) so you take it out on me. It's OK. I can take it.
You people expend a lot of energy trying to make Berwyn better. It's people that make it better - or worse. All the political maneuverers - get a life. Here's Berwyn.
I ran into Pete one of the brothers that owned the Majorette forever. He said BERWYN (whoever the powers that be are) knew all along they were going to build those condos, but sent a shill when he was selling. He could have got tons more but they cheated him out of it.
THAT's Berwyn.
I'd have to agree that this is a "clickish" forum.
Cindy
There is no doubt that this is a "clickish" forum. However, I think the "click" developed over time among people who have met in person to discuss issues that have developed through board discussions. Whether it be hanging out for a beer or working with CARES a certain amount of respect and friendship are formed through face to face meetings rather than bantering back and forth with faceless text on the internet.
One reason it is "clickish" is many of us have met in person. The other night at the bank, I met 2 folks that belong here. Last night I was with Bru67 and Kurto and his wife. Tonight I was with Mr. and Mrs. Scoon, T-Stan and Cheekymonkey (and one other nice member who shall remain anonymous).
So yeah, it is kind of clickish, in that we know each other.
Stop in at Olive or Twist on a Friday, and you'll probably find a few of us there. We don't bite, and tend to be a lot nicer in person. You'll probably find we agree about more things than we disagree.
Money on BerwynTruth's identity is Branco. After his DUI incident, we have never heard from that poster again.
MarkBerwyn is a very good writer. He used to have a blog that was pretty good.
Cheers,
BRian
What the Berwyn talk forum means to me---------At first it was a place I could go to, and write all my frustrations regarding city poltics and politicians. I could finally feel free to say exactly what was on my mind . I did not know anyone on this board at that time. Through the months and year that followed I found many people here thought the way I did. I think that thought was, honesty, a better Berwyn and finally maybe I can help make a change! It is my city, my taxes and my schools motto, that has come from this board through the people who write on this board.
I do not think Click has anything to do with it. We all come from different times, areas, ethnic groups and religions. Some of us are married, have children and some are single. Some of us are what I consider "normal people" others not.
We are all of different political backgrounds, and most definitely not all IVB as some people would like to think.
This board has made a difference in Berwyn, and because of it, small positive changes have started. For the first time ever, ideas were being listened to, politicians discovered they were being watched, school board officials took notice, and in my opinion we slowly started to move forward. This board became a group, not a click. The group still can disagree and often does.
Friendships are made here, but so are enemies.
It's the freedom of being able to express my thoughts on this board that I love the most.
One last thing here. I could give a rat's A** about my spelling, grammar or sentence structure. We are who we are, and should not be intimidated. Bottom line we are all equal.
you're right on, Pat. I think this board has made a difference. Kudos to Brian and Jim for starting it and continuing to run it.
Jim and Brian, thanks to both of you, Ted is absolutely right, we would not have made a difference with out you!!
Well, I guess I'm flattered that BountyHunter thinks I'm the best writer here, but I just like to think I'm the most annoying one--always with the fussy questions, always bitching about evidence, always splitting hairs. (Once again: I wasn't trying to get BH to describe gangbangers in general to me. I wanted him to explain how he determined that a group of black people he encountered were, in fact, gangbangers. There's a distinction there. See? Fussy.)
Maybe that makes me part of the clique, but then again I've been a pretty crappy clique member--I don't think I've ever met any of the folks on this board. Nothing personal; I just picked a career that a) Pays poorly and b) Takes up a lot of my time. (Also, I don't drink or smoke anymore, so I'm pretty much zero fun these days.) I've been on this board long enough to notice that when some asshat cries that this board is biased or cliquish, it usually means nothing more than that a couple of people are disagreeing with said asshat. Maybe an asshat's life is more interesting if he/she feels that there's a Giant Cabal at work instead of just a couple of critics.
I like Scoon's recaps, and I'm happy he's doing them--if somebody out there is getting his ass sore on a regular basis for no pay, all I can say is thank you. I do wish sometimes that there were more people on this board--there are really only about a dozen folks who post with any regularity--but the group that's here has accomplished quite a bit.
Quote from: markberwyn on July 01, 2006, 10:50:34 AM
I like Scoon's recaps, and I'm happy he's doing them--if somebody out there is getting his ass sore on a regular basis for no pay, all I can say is thank you.
I think that statement needs to be left in context... :D
I hope they're at least getting a tip...
Cheers,
Brian
The click has been confirmed. I guess I was right about something, huh?
If you guys would stop doing your imitation of the Village of the Dammed (those kids with the blonde hair) you might actually see some other/new people post here. As it is, I think if anyone reads this chat room, they already know it's a click and that if they were to post and say anything contrary to the collective they will be put in the "asshat" bin.
As you were.
Quote from: BountyHunter on July 01, 2006, 11:51:24 AM
As it is, I think if anyone reads this chat room, they already know it's a click and that if they were to post and say anything contrary to the collective they will be put in the "asshat" bin.
It is not a contrary view that makes one an asshat. There have been quite a few well articulated and meaningful debates on this board between people that disagree with each other or disagree with the majority of other posters. IMO that is one of the best things about this board.
My personal view is an asshat is someone who jumps in without establishing any credibility, uses logic below a 3rd grade level and is incapable of intelligently defending an opinion. Then somehow the asshat thinks it is entitled to some respect.
ok so I have no credibility. I have logic below 3rd grade level and not capable of intelligently defending an opinion. who ARE you people? self appointed gods?
Your a click-pure and simple.
Clique?....Surely you jest, we have attained cult status
Tina...Tina...Tina...
If we are to define this group as a "clique", I hope the emphasis is on the common purpose, and the exclusivity limited to those who care about making a change. If you can meet that criteria, I think it would be an honor to be in this "clique".
I think the best thing about this board is the increased use of the word asshat since it was first introduced. Who originated this term??
Bountyhunter, welcome.
That credit goes to markberwyn.
It seems he is one of the select few who have achieved "credibility" status without having to reveal his real name or meeting in person for drinks at OoT or Garv's.
Cindy
I'm not a big fan of groups. I find with groups you have to work within the collective body and progress is usually slow at best. If a person is a can do kinda guy or girl (don't want to leave the gals out cause there are plenty out there that qualify as a one man army), results whether for the good or bad come fast. I'm best when turned loose like a dog of war. As with the bad, much can be accomplished for the good behind the scenes - undetected.
The CARES group. My prediction. This group will come under more and more fire as push comes to shove. Tactic? Same used here at this chat room. Discrediting. As the powers that be struggle to hold onto the reins of power, they have only one choice and that is to send a message that the group is a fountain of misinformation. The group will then have to turn efforts to counter. It's already begun. Wasn't the last Life newspaper running some front page article that CARES is under criticism?
That's Berwyn folks.
Quote from: BountyHunter on July 02, 2006, 11:01:15 AM
I'm not a big fan of groups. I find with groups you have to work within the collective body and progress is usually slow at best. If a person is a can do kinda guy or girl (don't want to leave the gals out cause there are plenty out there that qualify as a one man army), results whether for the good or bad come fast. I'm best when turned loose like a dog of war. As with the bad, much can be accomplished for the good behind the scenes - undetected.
Except lone wolves in Berwyn don't seem to wind up doing a whole heck of a lot. I don't think the best-known one-man-armies in this town--Joel Erickson and Anthony Castrogiovanni--could list three accomplishments between the two of them. To the extent we hear from them at all, I mainly hear a lot of chest-beating about how they're lone wolves. Practically by definition, group discussion means that things go more slowly. But it also tends to mean that things get done. "I'm right--you all are wrong" is a sure-fire way to alienate people and ensure that nothing changes.
I might also add that whenever Mayor O'Connor plays the lone wolf he catches hell for it too--often from his own supporters. (Note the finance director resume incident.)
Quote from: BountyHunter on July 02, 2006, 11:01:15 AM
The CARES group. My prediction. This group will come under more and more fire as push comes to shove. Tactic? Same used here at this chat room. Discrediting. As the powers that be struggle to hold onto the reins of power, they have only one choice and that is to send a message that the group is a fountain of misinformation. The group will then have to turn efforts to counter. It's already begun. Wasn't the last Life newspaper running some front page article that CARES is under criticism?
What CARES will do is counter with facts. For example, it was stated that a combined district will lead to a bloated bueaucracy. I believe just the opposite is true. Today, we have a city with two grade school superintendents, two business managers, two director of curriculum, two of everything.!!!.. that is what is a bloated bureacracy is. Combining District 98 and District 100 will lead to cutting down the grade school bureacracies, not adding to it. We believe the cost savings on combining central functions (and having only one superintendent, etc.) will be at least $1 million dollars per year.
In addition, if I take that argument to the extreme, I would assume that the best approach is to have one school district per school. Yet I doubt the current school board presidents would want one school district per schoool, would they? That would really add to the central cost duplication. Just look at what is going on in Skokie, that has 5 grade school districts.
So, the question becomes what is the happy medium? At what point are you willing to pay the duplicated costs of administration for more local control? That is the real question.
I think the happy medium between local control and duplicated central costs is at least at the boundary of a city.
Ted
It's a shame that what appears to be a great idea on the surface for all of Berwyn, has become divisive. Granted both opinions are coming up with different ways to interrupt the numbers, but the correct answer Will be resolved with mutual studies of the facts.
Some thing as important as this issue should be debated to come up with the correct resolution without animosity. The only winners should be the children of Berwyn. How do we obtain that status as a group who cares about the future of Berwyn?
"Joel Erickson and Anthony Castrogiovanni" <-- hardly would call either one of them a one man army. Mavericks - yes. One man army - no.
Quote from: BountyHunter on July 02, 2006, 10:28:28 PM
Mavericks - yes. One man army - no.
What's the difference?
Quote from: markberwyn on July 03, 2006, 06:45:03 AM
Quote from: BountyHunter on July 02, 2006, 10:28:28 PM
Mavericks - yes. One man army - no.
What's the difference?
Castrogiovanni does have a small devoted group of Republicans who are loyal to him because of his conservative views. While that may not constitute an "army", I don't think you can say he is a one-man army. He does have his followers.
And, I don't think the term "maverick" fits Castrogiovanni either. In fact, I think the opposite is true. I think he often takes positions because his "army" believes in those positions more than he may really believe in them.
Erickson, on the other hand, is a maverick and I thnk he enjoys being a maverick. I do think maverick is a more appropriate term than one-man army because the word "one-man army" implies someone who gets things done all by himself or herself
That is not true of Erickson. He tends to rant and rave, but when it comes time for committee meetings (even his own committee, Administration), nothing gets done and things just get sent to his committee without ever having them addressed.
Ted
Quote from: markberwyn on July 02, 2006, 12:02:21 PM
Quote from: BountyHunter on July 02, 2006, 11:01:15 AM
I'm not a big fan of groups. I find with groups you have to work within the collective body and progress is usually slow at best. If a person is a can do kinda guy or girl (don't want to leave the gals out cause there are plenty out there that qualify as a one man army), results whether for the good or bad come fast. I'm best when turned loose like a dog of war. As with the bad, much can be accomplished for the good behind the scenes - undetected.
Except lone wolves in Berwyn don't seem to wind up doing a whole heck of a lot. I don't think the best-known one-man-armies in this town--Joel Erickson and Anthony Castrogiovanni--could list three accomplishments between the two of them. To the extent we hear from them at all, I mainly hear a lot of chest-beating about how they're lone wolves. Practically by definition, group discussion means that things go more slowly. But it also tends to mean that things get done. "I'm right--you all are wrong" is a sure-fire way to alienate people and ensure that nothing changes.
***** out of 5 stars.
Quote from: markberwyn on July 01, 2006, 10:50:34 AM
Well, I guess I'm flattered that BountyHunter thinks I'm the best writer here, but I just like to think I'm the most annoying one--always with the fussy questions, always bitching about evidence, always splitting hairs. (
Yes, MarkBerwyn is Skeptical But Not Cynical... oh wait, sorry, that's his wife. :D