Does anyone know what new church moved into the church at 32nd & Clinton? I didn't realize there were new owners and they've been having a very, very noisy service for two hours now.
describe noisy
3 hours of almost constant singing using microphones and what sounds like a full band. Blasting loud. Similar volume level as when the bands play Oktoberfest in the depot district.
Very southern revival like but I honestly have no clue what denomination it is
Maybe just bringing in the flock.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOsf_Fp6EwQ
-EF
Quote from: Vic0218 on August 05, 2009, 08:08:17 PM
Does anyone know what new church moved into the church at 32nd & Clinton? I didn't realize there were new owners and they've been having a very, very noisy service for two hours now.
I live just 3 houses away from the church and have seen and heard the indications of a new, very vibrant congregation moving in. I have no other info to share but will if I find out anything. I'd be very interested in any info others may gather.
Quote from: piniped on August 05, 2009, 10:33:14 PM
Quote from: Vic0218 on August 05, 2009, 08:08:17 PM
Does anyone know what new church moved into the church at 32nd & Clinton? I didn't realize there were new owners and they've been having a very, very noisy service for two hours now.
I live just 3 houses away from the church and have seen and heard the indications of a new, very vibrant congregation moving in. I have no other info to share but will if I find out anything. I'd be very interested in any info others may gather.
it's lovely to be "vibrant", but rude to be loud -- call the police if it's obnoxious.
I enjoy vibrant. This was obnoxious.
Especially after the first hour while trying to enjoy a beautiful evening with the windows open.
I didn't mention that this has been going on multiple days since the past weekend. Interesting.....
Sounds to me like a good old fashion Baptist Homecoming and Revival.
Quote from: Vic0218 on August 05, 2009, 11:48:09 PM
I enjoy vibrant. This was obnoxious.
Especially after the first hour while trying to enjoy a beautiful evening with the windows open.
I didn't mention that this has been going on multiple days since the past weekend. Interesting.....
Maybe it's the Derbylites practicing for the next roller,
holy that is, derby!
Nope - not roller derby. I love roller derby by the way...my sister is a player.
The new owner is a Victory Outreach congregation. The pastor is Ramon Castro, and he has moved his congregation here from thier prior church location on 59th street in Chicago (which they outgrew).
So that answers my original question.
Walked by there yesterday evening and heard them singing spanish church music but wasn't sure what religious affiliation.
Maybe I should go visit that church. I do have some
concerns as to what would happen to me if I did enter a
house of worship.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYbUx6wZ7z4
-EF
As faith erodes a lot of churches are being "repurposed" now.
The old Lithuanian church on Euclid is now home to "Reformation Ministry (http://www.reformationministry.org/)."
DAMN...I need a tax break biz too,
what have I been thinking all these years?
I gots to sell the Lord bro.
-EF
I went to a re-purposed church turned techno night club in Denver called the "The Church: Seven Candles". After a few drinks, the Catholic guilt got to me and my friends found me praying by the alter. ;D
All I could think about, "All the good I did in the world, I flushed down the crapper with this one sacrilegious act."
http://www.clubzone.com/p9771/denver/nightclub/the-church/tiesto-at-the-church-photo-392169.html
How about this church "repurposed" by developers into condos! Check out the light fixture:
http://www.urbandomain.com/chicago/propertyDetail.php?searchArea=buy_featured&propId=07090440&ptype=ATSF
Actually, it looks like that type of repurposing is pretty common:
http://www.uniquechicagoblog.com/2009/03/top-8-chicago-church-condo-conversions.html
Vic,
During open forum at cc a representative from the church wanted to let everyone know they are new to Berwyn and extended invitations to join them. The Mayor said he knew about the church because the city had complaints and please stay after the meeting to discuss.
Hopefully they will understand and be good neighbors.
Thanks for sharing Terri!
I just got a complaint today from one of my coworkers that lives in that area. Apparently, the church-goers look like "punks" and they hangout in the area way later than they should and all over the neighbors' property. Parking, needless to say, is a "HORRIBLE" definite problem.
Quote from: Ana on August 13, 2009, 10:21:49 AM
I just got a complaint today from one of my coworkers that lives in that area. Apparently, the church-goers look like "punks" and they hangout in the area way later than they should and all over the neighbors' property. Parking, needless to say, is a "HORRIBLE" definite problem.
Trust me, it's a freakin' nightmare.
The neighborhood calls the Cops almost every night.
So far our new 3rd ward alderperson has been unresponsive. Stay tuned...
Quote from: Beans on August 31, 2009, 01:57:20 PM
Quote from: Ana on August 13, 2009, 10:21:49 AM
I just got a complaint today from one of my coworkers that lives in that area. Apparently, the church-goers look like "punks" and they hangout in the area way later than they should and all over the neighbors' property. Parking, needless to say, is a "HORRIBLE" definite problem.
Trust me, it's a freakin' nightmare.
The neighborhood calls the Cops almost every night.
So far our new 3rd ward alderperson has been unresponsive. Stay tuned...
The noise and loiterers are one thing; the parking problems for residents is another. This group is not endearing itself to area residents. Even so, I've really not observed a huge following there myself. What days/nights are most active?
"So far our new 3rd ward alderperson has been unresponsive."
How unfortunate.
Quote from: Scouts Honor on August 31, 2009, 06:38:27 PM
"So far our new 3rd ward alderperson has been unresponsive."
How unfortunate.
It's a church that obviously recently changed denominations obviously - not a nightclub with new owners. Parking is probably an issue because of the lack of a parking lot. I have taken my children to Vacation Bible School at Concordia Lutheran around the corner throughout many years and yes, it's a problem there too at that time. As far as the "punks" comment, I personally feel that religion is a good thing to be infused into some of these "punks".
Was the actual building sold or is the church being rented out to this particular (Victory Outreach) group?
Blaming it on the new alderman doesn't seem right to me - she certainly didn't sell or rent to them. Even the Mayor obviously is aware of the situation. Hopefully, they will get the message that being a good neighbor is the right thing to do and the situation will be rectified in due time.
"So far our new 3rd ward alderperson has been unresponsive."
What do you want done ? This doesn't sound like something we want to rush into. We can't trample on any religious freedoms; so the choir can sing at any volume they like. Can't restrict evening services either.
As for the loitering, how do you know this hasn't already been discussed with the Mayor and the PD ?
Parking ? Wasn't parking a problem when the previous worshippers were in full attendance ?
I'd suggest calling the Mayor. He did comment at a previous council meeting that he was aware of "problems". Now, what's he going to do about the "problems" ???
how do you know this hasn't already been discussed with the Mayor and the PD ?
I know for a FACT that this is being taken care of by the mayor and BPD.
I was amazed that a resident of the 3rd ward was ignored by
the 3rd ward alderman in this high profile case that affected MANY 3rd ward residents.... Or not.
Why did the mayor and BPD have to do the 3rd ward's aldermans job?
"I know for a FACT that this is being taken care of by the mayor and BPD."
Yeah, they're doing a great job, aren't they?
Ana: "I just got a complaint today from one of my coworkers that lives in that area. "
Beans: "Trust me, it's a freakin' nightmare. The neighborhood calls the Cops almost every night."
Quote from: Scouts Honor on August 31, 2009, 09:36:00 PM
how do you know this hasn't already been discussed with the Mayor and the PD ?
I know for a FACT that this is being taken care of by the mayor and BPD.
I was amazed that a resident of the 3rd ward was ignored by
the 3rd ward alderman in this high profile case that affected MANY 3rd ward residents.... Or not.
Why did the mayor and BPD have to do the 3rd ward's aldermans job?
Ditto!!!!!!
Quote from: MRS. NORTHSIDER on August 31, 2009, 09:53:10 PM
Quote from: Scouts Honor on August 31, 2009, 09:36:00 PM
how do you know this hasn't already been discussed with the Mayor and the PD ?
I know for a FACT that this is being taken care of by the mayor and BPD.
I was amazed that a resident of the 3rd ward was ignored by
the 3rd ward alderman in this high profile case that affected MANY 3rd ward residents.... Or not.
Why did the mayor and BPD have to do the 3rd ward's aldermans job?
Ditto!!!!!!
What would the alderman do, anyway? You got it: Go to the Mayor and the BPD!
Quote from: Bonster on August 31, 2009, 10:18:26 PM
What would the alderman do, anyway? You got it: Go to the Mayor and the BPD!
Thank You.
Of course if it was Nona, midnight stake-out, guns a' blazing, much much grand standing. Hooplah too ! She'd be miffed, she would.
Yada yada yada.
Actually, she didn't do it, either. The BFD broke that party up.
All's well that ends well. Marge Paul is an excellent Alderwoman. And my co-worker says it is quieter.
Quote from: Ana on September 01, 2009, 09:50:53 AM
All's well that ends well. Marge Paul is an excellent Alderwoman. And my co-worker says it is quieter.
Depends who you ask I guess.
Alderperson still MIA.
...
Victory Outreach: http://www.victoryoutreach.org/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBFHY7LMock
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4VNtMZHfmI
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/august/16.40.html?start=1
"Victory Outreach is a ministry that exclusively reaches out to drug addicts and gang members.": http://www.rickross.com/reference/victory_outreach/victory_outreach1.html
I believe there were problems with that 'church' again last night -- which PD was called upon to resolve - again.
More on Victory Outreach...
http://www.rickross.com/reference/victory_outreach/victory_outreachvisitor.html (http://www.rickross.com/reference/victory_outreach/victory_outreachvisitor.html)
Quote from: LL--Schmidt on September 03, 2009, 11:53:20 AM
I believe there were problems with that 'church' again last night -- which PD was called upon to resolve - again.
You are correct.
Nightclub atmosphere.
Damn...What a mess, legal and otherwise. How special of the
last church to sell to this organization and totally
shaft the neighborhood they served.
Quote from: Beans on September 03, 2009, 10:07:09 AM
"Victory Outreach is a ministry that exclusively reaches out to drug addicts and gang members.": http://www.rickross.com/reference/victory_outreach/victory_outreach1.html
"ONCE VICTORY OUTREACH ENTERS A CITY WE WILL NEVER LEAVE THAT CITY"
They've obviously not confronted Berwyn types. ;)
It is a sticky problem.
City government can't really say "we don't like your religion, so get out".
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on September 03, 2009, 02:58:22 PM
It is a sticky problem.
City government can't really say "we don't like your religion, so get out".
Absolutely true, that would be against everything we're about (American that is). However, at what point does a "church" cross the line and does not behave as a good neighbor and would risk not being able to do business in a town? How much say does a neighborhood have?
Quote from: Beans on September 03, 2009, 04:13:28 PM
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on September 03, 2009, 02:58:22 PM
It is a sticky problem.
City government can't really say "we don't like your religion, so get out".
Absolutely true, that would be against everything we're about (American that is). However, at what point does a "church" cross the line and does not behave as a good neighbor and would risk not being able to do business in a town? How much say does a neighborhood have?
I'm not sure.
What exactly are they doing? Is the music they have at their services loud? That and parking seem to be the complaints I've heard.
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on September 03, 2009, 04:27:56 PM
Quote from: Beans on September 03, 2009, 04:13:28 PM
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on September 03, 2009, 02:58:22 PM
It is a sticky problem.
City government can't really say "we don't like your religion, so get out".
Absolutely true, that would be against everything we're about (American that is). However, at what point does a "church" cross the line and does not behave as a good neighbor and would risk not being able to do business in a town? How much say does a neighborhood have?
I'm not sure.
What exactly are they doing? Is the music they have at their services loud? That and parking seem to be the complaints I've heard.
It's not the religion *we take issue with.
Let's start with the noise, parking, trash, loitering and general rude behavior we endure. We don't get our neighborhood back until they leave for their homes.
The larger concern is the rehabbing of ex-cons and the shady characters lurking throughout the day and night.
One doesn't like the feeling that they're being cased.
These are non-Berwyn residents relocating their business from 59th St., Chicago under the guise of religion. Their arrogant attitude of "this is our neighborhood now" does not help their cause.
It quite possibly
is their neighborhood now. These are the types of things that changes neighborhoods - for good or worse; it depends on who you ask.
*we = a collection of households within the general area surrounding 32nd & Clinton.
No need to worry:
Quote from: Scouts Honor on August 31, 2009, 09:36:00 PM
I know for a FACT that this is being taken care of by the mayor and BPD.
Beans,
How often do they gather? Obviously this is not a "Sunday-only" thing...
I know, Bonster can attend a session there, (under cover of course)
and can report back to BTF!!
The whole concept of what and who goes there, seems like it
should be a concern to the neighbors.
"The whole concept of what and who goes there, seems like it
should be a concern to the neighbors."
I would be concerned if Bons was lurking in my church.
Quote from: Scouts Honor on September 03, 2009, 01:41:38 PM
Damn...What a mess, legal and otherwise. How special of the
last church to sell to this organization and totally
shaft the neighborhood they served.
Best damn thing you've ever posted.
Bear, since you know for a fact that the mayor and the PD have a plan please share it with us. We await your guidance.
Well, yea that's true! lol.
Quote from: Beans on September 03, 2009, 05:15:33 PM
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on September 03, 2009, 04:27:56 PM
Quote from: Beans on September 03, 2009, 04:13:28 PM
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on September 03, 2009, 02:58:22 PM
It is a sticky problem.
City government can't really say "we don't like your religion, so get out".
Absolutely true, that would be against everything we're about (American that is). However, at what point does a "church" cross the line and does not behave as a good neighbor and would risk not being able to do business in a town? How much say does a neighborhood have?
I'm not sure.
What exactly are they doing? Is the music they have at their services loud? That and parking seem to be the complaints I've heard.
It's not the religion *we take issue with.
Let's start with the noise, parking, trash, loitering and general rude behavior we endure. We don't get our neighborhood back until they leave for their homes.
The larger concern is the rehabbing of ex-cons and the shady characters lurking throughout the day and night.
One doesn't like the feeling that they're being cased.
These are non-Berwyn residents relocating their business from 59th St., Chicago under the guise of religion. Their arrogant attitude of "this is our neighborhood now" does not help their cause.
It quite possibly is their neighborhood now. These are the types of things that changes neighborhoods - for good or worse; it depends on who you ask.
*we = a collection of households within the general area surrounding 32nd & Clinton.
It is a sucky situation, wrapped in religion. Maybe make the area a resident only parking zone? Although I understand several parking lots are being rented by the church.
Has anyone met with the pastor?
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on September 03, 2009, 07:36:44 PM
Quote from: Beans on September 03, 2009, 05:15:33 PM
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on September 03, 2009, 04:27:56 PM
Quote from: Beans on September 03, 2009, 04:13:28 PM
Quote from: OakParkSpartan on September 03, 2009, 02:58:22 PM
It is a sticky problem.
City government can't really say "we don't like your religion, so get out".
Absolutely true, that would be against everything we're about (American that is). However, at what point does a "church" cross the line and does not behave as a good neighbor and would risk not being able to do business in a town? How much say does a neighborhood have?
I'm not sure.
What exactly are they doing? Is the music they have at their services loud? That and parking seem to be the complaints I've heard.
It's not the religion *we take issue with.
Let's start with the noise, parking, trash, loitering and general rude behavior we endure. We don't get our neighborhood back until they leave for their homes.
The larger concern is the rehabbing of ex-cons and the shady characters lurking throughout the day and night.
One doesn't like the feeling that they're being cased.
These are non-Berwyn residents relocating their business from 59th St., Chicago under the guise of religion. Their arrogant attitude of "this is our neighborhood now" does not help their cause.
It quite possibly is their neighborhood now. These are the types of things that changes neighborhoods - for good or worse; it depends on who you ask.
*we = a collection of households within the general area surrounding 32nd & Clinton.
It is a sucky situation, wrapped in religion. Maybe make the area a resident only parking zone? Although I understand several parking lots are being rented by the church.
Has anyone met with the pastor?
yes
Pastor?
Hardly. A money collector at best.
-Mathew State Opportunist Collection Services, LLC
In response to my neighbors I have met with the pastor, the church council and congregation. I have attended their Wednesday evening service (in Spanish), their Friday night service (In English) and their Sunday morning service (In Spanish).
I have been in communication with the Mayor since day one and the Berwyn Police Department. Mayor Lovero and a BPD Rep. will be meeting with me and my neighbors right after Labor Day to address the issues.
The neighbors with the most concerns have been invited (this is being held at a private residence) to sit with the Mayor and we will work out an amicable and workable solution to the various concerns.
Tony Castrogiovanni
Quote from: Castrogiovanni on September 04, 2009, 12:49:08 AM
In response to my neighbors I have met with the pastor, the church council and congregation.
Quote from: re: Castrogiovanni talking about OC's characterization of Berwyn on March 24, 2009, 02:59:23 PM
Says everything O'Connor claimed about the state of the city were embellished half-truths...
i.e. Castro never felt like he was going to get shot walking the streets...
(must be from South Berwyn)
Yes, South Berwyn.
Looks like you're getting a small taste of North Berwyn down there in paradise!
Does that make you happy?
Quote from: Berwyn GOP on September 04, 2009, 12:49:08 AM
In response to my neighbors I have met with the pastor, the church council and congregation. I have attended their Wednesday evening service (in Spanish), their Friday night service (In English) and their Sunday morning service (In Spanish).
I have been in communication with the Mayor since day one and the Berwyn Police Department. Mayor Lovero and a BPD Rep. will be meeting with me and my neighbors right after Labor Day to address the issues.
The neighbors with the most concerns have been invited (this is being held at a private residence) to sit with the Mayor and we will work out an amicable and workable solution to the various concerns.
Tony Castrogiovanni
This we anxiously await.
Stay tuned...
The whole idea here is that folks are aware of what's happening in the 'hood.
Hopefully things can be sorted out.
There are kids in the neighborhood and a school on the block. Why does someone think it's o.k. to start bussing in ex-cons and turning the area upside down just because they can afford the building.
I know the building isn't zoned for residence (yet).
I remember the uproar over the meth clinic. "Not in my neighborhood!"
None of this stuff gets reviewed 'cause they say they're a "church"? Now we're stuck with this crap.
"Does that make you happy?" -pkd50
No, that makes me ill - so typically Berwyn.
Oh,sorry. I thought you were gloating
No, just lamenting bullshit Berwyn politics.
Quote from: Beans on September 04, 2009, 09:32:39 AM
The whole idea here is that folks are aware of what's happening in the 'hood.
Hopefully things can be sorted out.
Hopefully.
Beans...to an outsider it appears your (and Vic's) complaints always fell on deaf ears down there.
Vic talking about your neighbors holding your block hostage. The punks who tried to burn your house down.
You were left shrugging your shoulders.
Maybe now that others' Utopian lots are being disrupted they'll pay attention to you.
Quote from: Bonster on September 04, 2009, 10:24:01 AM
Quote from: Beans on September 04, 2009, 09:32:39 AM
The whole idea here is that folks are aware of what's happening in the 'hood.
Hopefully things can be sorted out.
Hopefully.
Beans...to an outsider it appears your (and Vic's) complaints always fell on deaf ears down there.
Vic talking about your neighbors holding your block hostage. The punks who tried to burn your house down.
You were left shrugging your shoulders.
Maybe now that others' Utopian lots are being disrupted they'll pay attention to you.
A true opportune moment to make stuff right before things get worse if I say so myself. So far I haven't been too impressed/surprised.
I'd hate to visit the Depot District 5 years from now and say "It's a shame what happened here, it used to be cool."
Yours in fear and loathing,
Beans
Quote from: Bonster on September 04, 2009, 10:24:01 AM
Quote from: Beans on September 04, 2009, 09:32:39 AM
The whole idea here is that folks are aware of what's happening in the 'hood.
Hopefully things can be sorted out.
Hopefully.
Beans...to an outsider it appears your (and Vic's) complaints always fell on deaf ears down there.
Vic talking about your neighbors holding your block hostage. The punks who tried to burn your house down.
You were left shrugging your shoulders.
Maybe now that others' Utopian lots are being disrupted they'll pay attention to you.
I don't think there's a solution to the problem of undesirables in a neighborhood. And the police are not there to prevent situations, just respond to them. That's in no way a diss on the ones who protect us, just a statement of fact. They can't determining who can move in or live in a neighborhood. I imagine they must get tired of responding to the same calls in our neighborhood all the time. I have nothing but respect for the efforts they make.
I give up. I am fully surrounded - sex offender on the south, problem teens on the west, seriel thief on the east, and now the new questionable non-residents to the north. And there is absolutely nothing to do about it except shut the windows and stay inside.
Not my idea of a good environment for the kiddies and it actually is pretty stressful, so plan B is looking more attractive each passing day.
Beans - we've talked about this - but I really don't think much of anything (good) is going to come of this. I would love to be pleasantly surprised.
Quote from: Vic0218 on September 04, 2009, 01:33:07 PM
Quote from: Bonster on September 04, 2009, 10:24:01 AM
Quote from: Beans on September 04, 2009, 09:32:39 AM
The whole idea here is that folks are aware of what's happening in the 'hood.
Hopefully things can be sorted out.
Hopefully.
Beans...to an outsider it appears your (and Vic's) complaints always fell on deaf ears down there.
Vic talking about your neighbors holding your block hostage. The punks who tried to burn your house down.
You were left shrugging your shoulders.
Maybe now that others' Utopian lots are being disrupted they'll pay attention to you.
I don't think there's a solution to the problem of undesirables in a neighborhood. And the police are not there to prevent situations, just respond to them. That's in no way a diss on the ones who protect us, just a statement of fact. They can't determining who can move in or live in a neighborhood. I imagine they must get tired of responding to the same calls in our neighborhood all the time. I have nothing but respect for the efforts they make.
I give up. I am fully surrounded - sex offender on the south, problem teens on the west, seriel thief on the east, and now the new questionable non-residents to the north. And there is absolutely nothing to do about it except shut the windows and stay inside.
Not my idea of a good environment for the kiddies and it actually is pretty stressful, so plan B is looking more attractive each passing day.
Beans - we've talked about this - but I really don't think much of anything (good) is going to come of this. I would love to be pleasantly surprised.
Vic - ditto.
After reading some material on the Victory Outreach group I don't think I'd be very happy having them as a neighbor either especially with the way they've been conducting themselves so far. It's unfortunate that the Presbyterian Church was able to just sell to them without any input from the city. With the information out there on the web about this group I especially find it reprehensible that the church leaders weren't more selective about the sale given the residential character of the neighborhood.
"With the information out there on the web about this group I especially find it reprehensible that the church leaders weren't more selective about the sale given the residential character of the neighborhood."
Quite frankly, I would initiate a class action suit and clean out their
Presbyterian arseholes for damages; quality of life, property value, new crime to the hood etc.
I found this description of Victory Outreach on a site that researches relgious cults, sects, new religious movements, alternative religions, apologetics-, anticult-, and countercult organizations, doctrines, religious practices and world views. These resources reflect a variety of theological and/or sociological perspectives.
The website is www.apologeticsindex.org
Victory Outreach is described as:
"Victory Outreach Ministries
Founded in 1967 in Los Angeles, California, by Sonny Arguinzoni, an ordained Assemblies of God minister, Victory Outreach is a ministry that reaches out primarily to drug addicts, gang members, and ex-inmates."
Quote from: Classof67 on September 04, 2009, 08:02:19 PM
I found this description of Victory Outreach on a site that researches relgious cults, sects, new religious movements, alternative religions, apologetics-, anticult-, and countercult organizations, doctrines, religious practices and world views. These resources reflect a variety of theological and/or sociological perspectives.
The website is www.apologeticsindex.org
Victory Outreach is described as:
"Victory Outreach Ministries
Founded in 1967 in Los Angeles, California, by Sonny Arguinzoni, an ordained Assemblies of God minister, Victory Outreach is a ministry that reaches out primarily to drug addicts, gang members, and ex-inmates."
An ordained "Assemblies of God" minister - what religious demonination are they referring to and is it a recognized religion (meaning for right now tax exempt)?
Mrs. N...
Assemblies of God is a old church that originated in the early 1900s and is
Evangelical. Victory Outreach is Evangelical.
Quote from: Classof67 on September 04, 2009, 08:33:06 PM
Mrs. N...
Assemblies of God is a old church that originated in the early 1900s and is
Evangelical. Victory Outreach is Evangelical.
So they're basically one and the same albeit with a new focus.
Quote from: MRS. NORTHSIDER on September 04, 2009, 08:39:52 PM
Quote from: Classof67 on September 04, 2009, 08:33:06 PM
Mrs. N...
Assemblies of God is a old church that originated in the early 1900s and is
Evangelical. Victory Outreach is Evangelical.
So they're basically one and the same albeit with a new focus.
I understand Evangelical faith, but I don't know enough about Victory Outreach and their approach to say they are basically one and the same. Hopefully, the Berwyn Victory Outreach will be successful to turning peoples' lives around while maintaining harmony with the few disgruntled neighbors. Can I have an AMEN?
Quote from: Scouts Honor on September 04, 2009, 06:42:32 PM
"With the information out there on the web about this group I especially find it reprehensible that the church leaders weren't more selective about the sale given the residential character of the neighborhood."
Quite frankly, I would initiate a class action suit and clean out their
Presbyterian arseholes for damages; quality of life, property value, new crime to the hood etc.
Maybe Da Mayor can act as your attorney?
Bear, you have no standing in the court.
What happens when a church leaves town ? Seriously. Did the parishioners all go somewhere else ? Do they open up shop in a new location ? Who gets the $$$$ from the property sale ?
You go for "corporate" buzz, they are the ones who sold.
Here they are if any of you neighbors want to drop them an
e-mail and tell them how you feel about the sale.
http://www.pcanet.org/
Quote from: buzz on September 05, 2009, 09:16:22 AM
Bear, you have no standing in the court.
What happens when a church leaves town ? Seriously. Did the parishioners all go somewhere else ? Do they open up shop in a new location ? Who gets the $$$$ from the property sale ?
I don't think the parishioners, as a whole, are "neighbors". This isn't an outreach for little old ladies with blue hair and the all American families. Their outreach is for those that need a hand-up from drugs, crime, prostitution, etc. Seriously. VO owns that church, so they win or lose.
Quote from: buzz on September 05, 2009, 09:16:22 AM
Bear, you have no standing in the court.
What happens when a church leaves town ? Seriously. Did the parishioners all go somewhere else ? Do they open up shop in a new location ? Who gets the $$$$ from the property sale ?
Buzz brought up good questions. Why did the Presbyterians leave Berwyn? Did they leave and sell the building due to financial difficulties or merge with another congregation?
What recourse does a community have when a "church" disrupts a neighborhood? Why Berwyn?
Quote from: Terri on September 05, 2009, 10:43:32 AM
Why did the Presbyterians leave Berwyn? Did they leave and sell the building due to financial difficulties or merge with another congregation?
What recourse does a community have when a "church" disrupts a neighborhood? Why Berwyn?
For the Presbyterians' last newsletter (attached below) published in January, 2009, it looks like they are sharing the church facilities with the First Lutheran Church at 31st & Euclid. I would guess the Presbyterian congregation attending the church at 32nd & Clinton had dwindled and possibly it was no longer economically feasible to keep the building.
Maybe Tony La could shed some light on who brokered the sale from the Presbyterians to Victory Outreach.
Perhaps that realtor found the buyer and everyone can thank them.
"Perhaps that realtor found the buyer and everyone can thank them."
Class, your so thoughtful in your choice of words lol.
"Hopefully, the Berwyn Victory Outreach will be successful to turning peoples' lives around while maintaining harmony with the few disgruntled neighbors. Can I have an AMEN?" - Classof97
But...is it just a few?
Do you really believe this is a noble cause?
Quote from: Scouts Honor on September 05, 2009, 11:48:17 AM
"Perhaps that realtor found the buyer and everyone can thank them."
Class, your so thoughtful in your choice of words lol.
Well, damnitalltohell...someone's responsible! ;D
It seems that this group, Victory Outreach Church, swoops in on low income inner city areas. Honestly, I don't know how this group operates, but I am exteremly wary. Living in the area, I always thought of it as a working middle-class, decent family friendly neighborhood. I do like living here, walking distance to the train, decent restaurants, Proksa park and my neighbors. But, all things change, and it is now time to move on and out.
Right or wrong, this group needs to be monitored. They have services on Sunday that end at 12:30, but the members hang around outside on the sidewalk til at least 2pm, Wednesday evening they start arriving at 5:30pm for 7pm -8:30pm services and don't leave the area til at least 9:30pm, congregating on the steps and sidewalk, actually yelling, whistling,kids screaming and running amok. Friday, is a replay of Wednesday. Tuesday and Thursday from 7pm-9pm a group, 20-30 people, uses the building for music practice. They do have the front doors closed, but, they think they are rock stars and blast the music and it can be heard on the street. This "Christain" group shows no consideration for the area, any day they are here.
A few disgruntled neighbors, YES, but the rest are just waiting for an upturn in the economy, waiting to put there homes fo sale, and when this happens, this area will be the "new north Berwyn".
Show some backbone Peridot,
are you going to let friggin punks walk
all over you?
There are options. The police are your friends.
Quote from: Peridot 16 on September 10, 2009, 06:57:52 PM
They have services on Sunday that end at 12:30, but the members hang around outside on the sidewalk til at least 2pm,
Wednesday evening they start arriving at 5:30pm for 7pm -8:30pm services and don't leave the area til at least 9:30pm, congregating on the steps and sidewalk, actually yelling, whistling,kids screaming and running amok.
Friday, is a replay of Wednesday.
Tuesday and Thursday from 7pm-9pm a group, 20-30 people, uses the building for music practice.
They do have the front doors closed, but, they think they are rock stars and blast the music and it can be heard on the street.
Sounds like a church to me.
I have showed backbone and call the police when the noise is ridiculous. I hate to say it, but because of 1st Amendment rights, the police are slow to react. I have called the police on the last 3 Wednesdays, telling the dispatcher, all I want is a squad car to drive by and document the noise level. According to the mayor 8:30-10pm is not that late, and members leaving the church will congregate. He has no idea what the volume is when 40+ people and there screaming kids are out on the steps and sidewalk. Of course, it doesn't help when a suck up neighbor(a friend of Bobby) tells the mayor when he & his wife walk there dog at 10PM everything is quiet. Funny thing, I have yet to see them walking the dog, as I like to sit on my porch and enjoy the cool evenings.
So this is why I say, I'm ready to book.
Quote from: Classof67 on September 10, 2009, 08:07:36 PM
Quote from: Peridot 16 on September 10, 2009, 06:57:52 PM
They have services on Sunday that end at 12:30, but the members hang around outside on the sidewalk til at least 2pm,
Wednesday evening they start arriving at 5:30pm for 7pm -8:30pm services and don't leave the area til at least 9:30pm, congregating on the steps and sidewalk, actually yelling, whistling,kids screaming and running amok.
Friday, is a replay of Wednesday.
Tuesday and Thursday from 7pm-9pm a group, 20-30 people, uses the building for music practice.
They do have the front doors closed, but, they think they are rock stars and blast the music and it can be heard on the street.
Sounds like a church to me.
Class of 67
Sounds like a church to you? Just stroll by on a Wednesday, especially after 9PM.
I can walk or drive by any other church in Berwyn, and there is no activity.
Do you (or a friend) have a video camera Peridot? Grab some footage, upload it to YouTube, and let people see exactly what is going on. Let people judge for themselves.
QuoteSounds like a church to you? Just stroll by on a Wednesday, especially after 9PM.
I can walk or drive by any other church in Berwyn, and there is no activity.
Bravo!!!
What Peridot 16 said...
That's what I'm talkin' about!
...and what about the rehabbing of ex-cons in our neighborhood!?! No one asked
me or anyone else that I know of, if that would be o.k....obviously someone thought it'd be o.k. to plant this crap in a peaceful
(past tense) neighborhood.
The risk factor has increased.
Quote from: Peridot 16 on September 10, 2009, 06:57:52 PMA few disgruntled neighbors, YES, but the rest are just waiting for an upturn in the economy, waiting to put there homes fo sale, and when this happens, this area will be the "new north Berwyn".
I live in North Berwyn and it sounds a helluva lot better than what you guys are going through NOW:
Quote from: Vic0218 on September 04, 2009, 01:33:07 PM
I am fully surrounded - sex offender on the south, problem teens on the west, seriel thief on the east, and now the new questionable non-residents to the north. And there is absolutely nothing to do about it except shut the windows and stay inside.
Not my idea of a good environment for the kiddies and it actually is pretty stressful
So that's South Berwyn? Beauuuuuuutiful!
Quote from: Classof67 on September 10, 2009, 08:07:36 PM
Quote from: Peridot 16 on September 10, 2009, 06:57:52 PM
They have services on Sunday that end at 12:30, but the members hang around outside on the sidewalk til at least 2pm,
Wednesday evening they start arriving at 5:30pm for 7pm -8:30pm services and don't leave the area til at least 9:30pm, congregating on the steps and sidewalk, actually yelling, whistling,kids screaming and running amok.
Friday, is a replay of Wednesday.
Tuesday and Thursday from 7pm-9pm a group, 20-30 people, uses the building for music practice.
They do have the front doors closed, but, they think they are rock stars and blast the music and it can be heard on the street.
Sounds like a church to me.
Can't blame Class for that one - that description did sound like any other church! Though most Catholic churches host choir practice as opposed to rock music. I'd rather the rock music. I'll have to check it out at night. Do the hoodlums walk around the neighborhood?
Quote from: Peridot 16 on September 11, 2009, 12:18:41 AMOf course, it doesn't help when a suck up neighbor(a friend of Bobby) tells the mayor when he & his wife walk there dog at 10PM everything is quiet.
So they are OK with it? Or do they lie about it to suck up to Bobby?
But, wait............
Quote from: Scouts Honor on August 31, 2009, 09:36:00 PM
how do you know this hasn't already been discussed with the Mayor and the PD ?
I know for a FACT that this is being taken care of by the mayor and BPD.
Why did the mayor and BPD have to do the 3rd ward's aldermans job?
nevermind...this will soon be a non-issue.
Quote from: Bonster on September 11, 2009, 02:26:37 PM
Quote from: Peridot 16 on September 10, 2009, 06:57:52 PMA few disgruntled neighbors, YES, but the rest are just waiting for an upturn in the economy, waiting to put there homes fo sale, and when this happens, this area will be the "new north Berwyn".
I live in North Berwyn and it sounds a helluva lot better than what you guys are going through NOW:
Quote from: Vic0218 on September 04, 2009, 01:33:07 PM
I am fully surrounded - sex offender on the south, problem teens on the west, seriel thief on the east, and now the new questionable non-residents to the north. And there is absolutely nothing to do about it except shut the windows and stay inside.
Not my idea of a good environment for the kiddies and it actually is pretty stressful
So that's South Berwyn? Beauuuuuuutiful!
While most of the Depot District is still pretty nice you do occasionally get a block that has problems (unfortunately for Vic it seems she lives on one). It's pretty unfortunate this new "church" is causing problems for the neighbors. Don't they have a fellowship hall in the building where the members can congregate after church? Most churches do.
There is a huge hall in the basement of that church,
bigger than St. Leonards.
@Vic. We all have sex offenders that live around us. Go to the sex offender registry and look Berwyn up. We are loaded with sex offenders. But so is every other town. Many of us have problem teens that live around us, as well as troublemaker grade school kids. As far as serial thief, I would think that if there was proof then police should have been contacted regarding any incidents. As far as the Church, it's a Church. I have passed by many a church and heard a chorus and its attendees singing to high "heaven". It's expected. When weddings are held, people hang around the church for hours, take pictures, act boisterous, laughing and talking loudly, and otherwise, celebrating the union between a man and a woman. Heh. Those that live on Wisconsin across from the Park get the noise from the Park, in addition to the goings on at Lalos, although complaints seem to have subsided, or maybe ppl just gave up. There was a time about 10 years ago we had a problem with over 30 grade school kids congregating all in one spot by me. It was horrible. Just had to have police come shoo them away when you couldn't stand it one more minute. Trains are too loud, people are too loud, kids are too loud, music too loud. I love peace and quiet like the next guy but to expect tranquility at every moment is asking too much. Right now I hear the sounds of construction on a daily basis for over a month now. Neighbor is doing some big project. I have no problem with it because they are trying to accomplish something for their home. When it's done, it's done. Then all will be happy. People who want total QUIET, should try living out a ways. Believe me, if you are a true neighborhood person, after awhile you wish you could hear something ... anything. Had a friend over to watch a movie and at the exact point of putting in the DVD, neighbors who had someone over with a baby came out. That baby screamed and cried for literally 2 hours. We couldn't believe it. Must have been teething or had colic or something, although friend pointed out they were doing nothing to console the poor kid. Did it stop us from watching the movie ... well, it would have been good if the baby would have stopped, but it didn't so that was the backdrop through the entire movie. Thankfully, it was an action movie, so it just became part of the chaos. Police are there, use em. When something is too loud, or you just can't take it anymore, call them.
Quote from: Scouts Honor on September 11, 2009, 04:20:55 PM
There is a huge hall in the basement of that church,
bigger than St. Leonards.
Welll then maybe someone from the city can have a friendly sitdown with the leaders of the church and ask that they perhaps ask their parishioners to congregate after services in their fellowship hall if they want to be considered good neighbors on their block. They can still have their get together after services and the neighbors can have some peace and quiet and a sense of their neighborhood back on those days. That would be a win-win solution I think.
You know what, winter's right around the corner and I bet "fellowship" will start to drop off as soon as
the temperature goes south and for those that are committed, they will be indoors.
Give it some time.
Class is right, winter is just around the corner, but before ya know
it spring is here again!
My theory, watch what's going on and nip it in the bud!
I'd be curious to see if any kind of crime is increased in that particular area.
why not attend a service and see what the fuss is all about. Maybe you'd be surprised.
Quote from: Classof67 on September 11, 2009, 09:31:11 PM
You know what, winter's right around the corner and I bet "fellowship" will start to drop off as soon as
the temperature goes south and for those that are committed, they will be indoors.
Give it some time.
Saved By Zero? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swzK7Q8teSM)
Quote from: billyjean on September 11, 2009, 04:28:27 PM
Many of us have problem teens that live around us, as well as troublemaker grade school kids. As far as serial thief, I would think that if there was proof then police should have been contacted regarding any incidents.
Police are there, use em.
bj: Previous posts of hers spoke about a particular household of teens for the which police have been unable to serve them. Regarding the sex offenders, I agree. Check out the sex offender registry...Berwyn is LOADED with them...more than anywhere else but Cicero, Aurora, and Elgin...
and I'm not even on that list!
Quote from: Puttintange on September 12, 2009, 08:54:05 AM
why not attend a service and see what the fuss is all about. Maybe you'd be surprised.
I did attend a Sunday & Wednesday service. I'm not sure what you mean by surprised.
The services are in Spanish(no problem for me, I speak it). Personally, I think this Mr. Castro, assumed this area is mainly Hispanic, (his former building at 2809 W. 59th St. Chicago is listed as Victory Outreach-Hispanic). After the Sunday service, I was surprised at many people commenting that there were so many weddos (white people) in the area. I am part Mexican, and truthfully, I was saddened at the comments made about the residents in this area.
Also, you need to be aware this is an Outreach, that many members are ex-cons and supposedly reformed drug addicts and gang-bangers. Yes, there are many families that attend, and hopefully adhere to the guidelines of this church, but, when I read about a church that was founded 30+ years ago by some heroin addict found in a sleazy motel room with a needle in his arm and is now worth millions, I just can't help but think he and his ministers are profiting on the downtrodden.
Quote from: Bonster on September 11, 2009, 02:30:32 PM
Quote from: Classof67 on September 10, 2009, 08:07:36 PM
Sounds like a church to me.
Can't blame Class for that one - that description did sound like any other church!
[/quote]
No, she can hear it ! She can actually hear it. Just like she can see Berwyn from her front porch.
After reading this, I just had to drive past it yesterday as I was going to be in the area a couple of times anyway. I saw nothing that seemed out of place for a large, vibrant congregation of families. We could hear no loud music either on the way out or back and the only other sounds we heard was the laughter and squeals of children. Lighten up! Most of the protestant churches in this area have some sort of outreach going on. It's just that they are quieter for the most part.
I drove by Sunday around 1pm and saw one group of kids dressed for church and a guy crossing the street. I'll try back next week at a different time.
Quote from: buzz on September 12, 2009, 10:33:57 PM
Quote from: Bonster on September 11, 2009, 02:30:32 PM
Quote from: Classof67 on September 10, 2009, 08:07:36 PM
Sounds like a church to me.
Can't blame Class for that one - that description did sound like any other church!
No, she can hear it ! She can actually hear it. Just like she can see Berwyn from her front porch.
Huh? I thought she could see your front porch with the use of a red light camera?
Quote from: Sandy on September 17, 2009, 12:57:27 PM
After reading this, I just had to drive past it yesterday as I was going to be in the area a couple of times anyway. I saw nothing that seemed out of place for a large, vibrant congregation of families. We could hear no loud music either on the way out or back and the only other sounds we heard was the laughter and squeals of children. Lighten up! Most of the protestant churches in this area have some sort of outreach going on. It's just that they are quieter for the most part.
Was this on WEDNESDAY 9/16? You must have missed, or didn't pay attetion to the men pacing, clapping and singing on the top step of the church. Driving by, well I can drive by and only hear what is going on at the time. Park, if you can find a spot, and hang around for awhile, you will hear what we hear. My friends can hear the service & music in there apartments in the building on 32nd & Clinton. I hear the service and music on Home Ave behind the church. This ebbs and tides from 7-8:30/9pm. depending on when the services end. Lighten up???? Laughter & squeals of children??? When services end, anytime from 8:30-9pm on a Wednesday night, these children are screaming and yelling, not laughter and squeals. The sad thing is, no supervision with these kids. A large,vibrant congregation of families....so....why the heck are these school aged kids up so late?
Good Afternoon, Everyone.
As an Elder of the Presbyterian Church of Berwyn, due to declining membership, we were forced to move out and sell the property at 32rd St and Clinton Av. We now worship at First Lutheran Church of Berwyn [31st St and Euclid Av] Sundays at 9:00am.
Any problems with the new owners should be taken up with Berwyn itself. If membership of PCB at the old site increased, we would not have had to move, but parking would have become a problem again.
Quote from: frankvdv on January 09, 2010, 02:37:00 PM
Good Afternoon, Everyone.
As an Elder of the Presbyterian Church of Berwyn, due to declining membership, we were forced to move out and sell the property at 32rd St and Clinton Av. We now worship at First Lutheran Church of Berwyn [31st St and Euclid Av] Sundays at 9:00am.
Any problems with the new owners should be taken up with Berwyn itself. If membership of PCB at the old site increased, we would not have had to move, but parking would have become a problem again.
Is there any way we can get you guys to move back in? At least PCB was quiet and didn't bring in bad element. Sorry to see PCB go.
I guess you never appreciate what you got 'till it's gone.
Quote from: Beans on January 13, 2010, 01:10:26 PM
Quote from: frankvdv on January 09, 2010, 02:37:00 PM
Good Afternoon, Everyone.
As an Elder of the Presbyterian Church of Berwyn, due to declining membership, we were forced to move out and sell the property at 32rd St and Clinton Av. We now worship at First Lutheran Church of Berwyn [31st St and Euclid Av] Sundays at 9:00am.
Any problems with the new owners should be taken up with Berwyn itself. If membership of PCB at the old site increased, we would not have had to move, but parking would have become a problem again.
Is there any way we can get you guys to move back in? At least PCB was quiet and didn't bring in bad element. Sorry to see PCB go.
I guess you never appreciate what you got 'till it's gone.
What ever became of the meeting with Lovero and Castrogiovanni?
If the churches membership would have been stronger like it was in the 60s, we would not have had to move out.
Catholicscomehome.org is doing well. You should have tried advertising !
Catholics come home...Hmmm...Different situation then the Presbyterian sec...
Quote from: buzz on January 13, 2010, 08:57:32 PM
Catholicscomehome.org is doing well. You should have tried advertising !
Good advertising always helps business. We're all just hoping that Victory Outreach's business tanks just like the Presbyterians did, then they can just move along and then we can get our neighborhood back.
Maybe they'll get tired of their commute from the city and membership falls off. Just trying to be positive.
In the meantime, we're not looking forward to the warm weather when they swing their doors open so we can hear their spew and then "congregate" for hours on end. Absolutely RUDE a$$ people!
Even their music sucks - that's the salt in the open wound.
Well, that meeting didn't fare very well. Nothing has changed. The mayors comment was to be considerate of this group and in return they would be considerate of the neighborhood. That alot of churches in Berwyn are on residential streets. Yes, but, they respect the neighborhood. Why doe this church group need to use loud speakers and microphones to attract attention? That the service and music is so loud it can be heard from outside the building. Also, his comment of just because someone looks like a gang-banger doesn't mean they are a gang-banger. Well, how the heck do you tell the difference?
The so-called music group that comes into practice in the evenings, every Tuesday and Thursday,are so loud, you can hear them across the street on Clinton and across the street on 32nd. What is the reason for this? And this is now, with the windows and doors closed. The services on Wednesday evening are just as bad. I realize there are bigger problems in Berwyn, but to let this group be on the back burner is not right. I do call the police, but, for some reason it still goes on. People in this neighborhood need to call and complain about the volume of the music, this group are jerks and continue to blast this horrible music.
They need to be held accountable and comply with the city noise disturbance law.
I am at a loss for why this is allowed to continue and why the police don't take this seriously.
Remember, most of this congregation is from Chicago, have no ties to Berwyn, don't contribute a penny to our city. Hell, the owners of the building don't even pay RE taxes to the city as they are considered a non-profit group. Yet, they can disturb and disrupt a once quiet area.
With all due respect, this is one of the main reasons you should really reconsider buying a house that is next to; a strip mall, bank, grocery store, school, park, hospital,railroad tracks, or a church. While I understand that the church you speak of was always quiet that should have brought you some concern! For a church that is too quiet is a church that is not doing good business. Churches are businesses(all tax free money, after all how can you tax God). It is unfortunate that the "church" now has an "unfavorable" congregation. But thats the risk you took when you bought that lovely home next to the big church. Berwyn is a suburb with a city feel. This is a city, and unfortunately a city is noisy. I live close to st. Leonard's which has a school as well. The hospital is only two blocks away, which is a magnate for ambulances with there blazing sirens! The railroad tracks are 3 blocks away with their bells and whistles. Heck, my neighbor has a dog that seems to bark at nothing all day long. Berwyn is a city! If you didn't know it then you know it now! You want quiet, move to the country! But believe me good neighbor, you will miss the city that we call Berwyn.
Couldn't have said it better! It's almost as crazy as the people who whine about the teenagers congregating on Home Av. when they bought a house accross from the high school.
Quote from: bigolo on February 16, 2010, 12:17:53 AM
With all due respect, this is one of the main reasons you should really reconsider buying a house that is next to; a strip mall, bank, grocery store, school, park, hospital,railroad tracks, or a church. While I understand that the church you speak of was always quiet that should have brought you some concern! For a church that is too quiet is a church that is not doing good business. Churches are businesses(all tax free money, after all how can you tax God). It is unfortunate that the "church" now has an "unfavorable" congregation. But thats the risk you took when you bought that lovely home next to the big church. Berwyn is a suburb with a city feel. This is a city, and unfortunately a city is noisy. I live close to st. Leonard's which has a school as well. The hospital is only two blocks away, which is a magnate for ambulances with there blazing sirens! The railroad tracks are 3 blocks away with their bells and whistles. Heck, my neighbor has a dog that seems to bark at nothing all day long. Berwyn is a city! If you didn't know it then you know it now! You want quiet, move to the country! But believe me good neighbor, you will miss the city that we call Berwyn.
Equal respect back @ ya...
Good points (gee, why didn't I think about all that?).
Bottom line - rude is rude.
As for taxing imaginary guys in the sky...I have nothing. Rules of the land I guess.
I remember a similar thought process back in the day: "America, Love It Or Leave It".
Quote from: bigolo on February 16, 2010, 12:17:53 AM
It is unfortunate that the "church" now has an "unfavorable" congregation. But thats the risk you took when you bought that lovely home next to the big church.
No it isn't. I've never known a
big church to draw an "unfavorable" congregation. One may assume such a risk when moving by a commercial building, but all I've ever heard from large churches is choir-y music, usually in key. I trust Beans as a musician on his assessment of the quality of their noise:
Quote from: Beans on January 14, 2010, 09:49:31 AMEven their music sucks - that's the salt in the open wound.
;D
"Noise" in the form of a short-lived teenage garage band can be dealt with. Noise from a protected, institutionalized garage band cannot (apparently).
Quote from: Peridot 16 on February 08, 2010, 05:38:16 PM
Well, that meeting didn't fare very well. Nothing has changed.
Looks like the soothsayer was wrong:
Quote from: Classof67 on September 11, 2009, 09:31:11 PM
You know what, winter's right around the corner and I bet "fellowship" will start to drop off as soon as
the temperature goes south and for those that are committed, they will be indoors.
Give it some time.
Quote from: Peridot 16 on February 08, 2010, 05:38:16 PM
The mayors comment was to be considerate of this group and in return they would be considerate of the neighborhood. That alot of churches in Berwyn are on residential streets.
Also, his comment of just because someone looks like a gang-banger doesn't mean they are a gang-banger. Well, how the heck do you tell the difference?
Perhaps he's a bit more patient in dealing with ne'er-do-wells than you. The Mayor lives in "north Berwyn," (which, btw, is YOUR Berwyn) which you shit on. Keep stressing the noise part . . .
Sandy, bigolo,bonster,
I've been in this area for 20+ years and there has always been activity in this building...no problem. Never heard the services! The congregation was respectful of the area as was the use of the building. No need to defend my stance...until now. I am not happy with this Victory Outreach group settling into this area. The 1st Sunday they had a service, microphones and music so loud it could be heard on Oak Park Ave. and actually drowned out the trains on Stanley. So, is this a church that is considerate of the area? I don't think so.
bonster,
contrary to your comment, I don't shit on North Berwyn....it's all of Berwyn...just hoping that the mayor has enough juice to turn our city into a better place to live. Get business back in here, do something about all the emptiness on Ogden Ave. Get Berwyn back to a family city. Oh yeah, if I see someone that looks like a gang-banger, I'm going to assume he is.
Quote from: Peridot 16 on February 17, 2010, 06:17:57 PM
Oh yeah, if I see someone that looks like a gang-banger, I'm going to assume he is.
+1
Good Luck
I live basically right next to St. Leonard's and the train is a block away and MacNeal is also less than a block away. Yes, there is a noise factor but not an intrusive one and basically we are used to the common noises from all three. Once a year St. Leonard's has their Octoberfest (used to be fallfest) and they have live bands and it's quite loud. No problem once a year. But if I had to listen to that on a weekly basis I would be very less than thrilled. I would not expect that from a church regularly and don't think anyone else should especially since there has never been that level of loudness before.
Quote from: Peridot 16 on February 17, 2010, 06:17:57 PM
bonster,
contrary to your comment, I don't shit on North Berwyn....it's all of Berwyn...just hoping that the mayor has enough juice to turn our city into a better place to live. Get business back in here, do something about all the emptiness on Ogden Ave. Get Berwyn back to a family city. Oh yeah, if I see someone that looks like a gang-banger, I'm going to assume he is.
Fair enough. I'll take your previous crap of "north Berwyn" as a Freudian slip.
So just what exactly does a gang-banger look like?
Quote from: MRS. NORTHSIDER on February 18, 2010, 07:46:26 AM
I live basically right next to St. Leonard's and the train is a block away and MacNeal is also less than a block away. Yes, there is a noise factor but not an intrusive one and basically we are used to the common noises from all three. Once a year St. Leonard's has their Octoberfest (used to be fallfest) and they have live bands and it's quite loud. No problem once a year. But if I had to listen to that on a weekly basis I would be very less than thrilled. I would not expect that from a church regularly and don't think anyone else should especially since there has never been that level of loudness before.
BINGO!!!Thank you MRS. NORTHSIDER.
Just wait 'till the weather gets warmer and they swing their doors and windows open - you think it's loud now... I'm telling ya, it's going to get worse.
These people are absolutely rude in addition to bringing in a bad element (rehabbing ex-cons...nice, thanks a lot).
They have no respect for the neighborhood.
Bonster,
"There is two kinds of music the good and bad. I play the good kind." - Louis Armstrong
There's some foul tunage leaking from that building. It'll wreck your sense of tonality if you're exposed to it for too long. Avoid it if you can.
Quote from: Bonster on February 17, 2010, 01:28:41 PM
Quote from: bigolo on February 16, 2010, 12:17:53 AM
It is unfortunate that the "church" now has an "unfavorable" congregation. But thats the risk you took when you bought that lovely home next to the big church.
No it isn't. I've never known a big church to draw an "unfavorable" congregation. One may assume such a risk when moving by a commercial building, but all I've ever heard from large churches is choir-y music, usually in key. I trust Beans as a musician on his assessment of the quality of their noise:
Quote from: Beans on January 14, 2010, 09:49:31 AMEven their music sucks - that's the salt in the open wound.
;D
If you didn't notice my sarcasism by the quotes and parentheses, then man, i don't understand what you are talking about! But whatever! yes a church can and does indeed draw a "unfavaorable" condition! when the masses of the public don't agree on the religious beliefs of the congregation, the public is startled! to the point of no recognition. Fear is a practice given of the unknown! In other words, if you don't know "it" then you fear it! But thats not the case here!
"Noise" in the form of a short-lived teenage garage band can be dealt with. Noise from a protected, institutionalized garage band cannot (apparently).
Well, I was cut off here!
but to continue the thought;
Quote from: bigolo on February 19, 2010, 12:09:13 AM
yes a church can and does indeed draw a "unfavaorable" condition! when the masses of the public don't agree on the religious beliefs of the congregation, the public is startled! to the point of no recognition.
Bullshit. When one's religious beliefs are such that a particular parish exudes "unfavorable conditions" they don't move there in the first place. These neighborhoods were built around parishes.
Show me a neighborhood in this area that was built around a parish that others consider startling. i.e. I highly doubt the Jewish folks in that area "feared" that once peaceful church when house hunting. Now even Christians and Atheists are startled!
Quote from: Bonster on February 19, 2010, 08:09:31 AM
Quote from: bigolo on February 19, 2010, 12:09:13 AM
yes a church can and does indeed draw a "unfavorable" condition! when the masses of the public don't agree on the religious beliefs of the congregation, the public is startled! to the point of no recognition.
Bullshit. When one's religious beliefs are such that a particular parish exudes "unfavorable conditions" they don't move there in the first place. These neighborhoods were built around parishes.
Show me a neighborhood in this area that was built around a parish that others consider startling. i.e. I highly doubt the Jewish folks in that area "feared" that once peaceful church when house hunting. Now even Christians and Atheists are startled!
BONster!!!! What was the start of this thread? A group of people,in the neighborhood, that didn't like the the actions of a certain congregation in an old established church!!! I mean WTF??? There are times I wonder if you "read" what I read?!? If there are complaints about a certain organization that assembles in a building and "worship" a Deity that is not your Deity, and complains, then I have to wonder if that doesn't constitute a "startling" situation! I'm not the originator of this complaint! just an observer I might add! Bonster, get your head out of your ass and read before you write! Gees, get a grip! I'm starting to think you are a grade A weirdo!!!! get off the computer for a minute and walk around our great town. You need to see reality....
And I might add that these people didn't/haven't moved here! They are just visitors which makes this situation that more sensitive . As a result, it makes your point moot about communities being built around parishes. While I agree that is truth, It's just not the "truth" in this cirumstance! Get It???? I'm sure you will come up with some "malarky" about this or the other! But just remember, you heard this from Bigolo.... Brother!!!!
Quote from: bigolo on February 19, 2010, 08:42:01 PM
And I might add that these people didn't/haven't moved here! They are just visitors which makes this situation that more sensitive . As a result, it makes your point moot about communities being built around parishes. While I agree that is truth, It's just not the "truth" in this cirumstance! Get It???? I'm sure you will come up with some "malarky" about this or the other! But just remember, you heard this from Bigolo.... Brother!!!!
Get it - got it Bigolo. Just a little FYI from the homeowners around the "new church" at 32nd and Clinton. You need to "tone" it down big time because the locals just aren't diggin' you like you had hoped. What a drag!
Sorry to have struck a chord, Mrs northsider! That wasn't my intention, however, I thought you resided close to me. 34th and whatever! O.k. whatever, I really don't have the energy to exasperate myself to fight this fight. To the people who reside in that part of town, God bless you! otherwise I guess I'll see you in Over The Rainbow, or Brando's. Hot diggatti! I'm out of this one! Too hot TOO hot!!!!
Quote from: bigolo on February 19, 2010, 08:25:02 PM
BONster!!!! What was the start of this thread? A group of people,in the neighborhood, that didn't like the the actions of a certain congregation in an old established church!!!
BIGolo!!!!
A group of people in the neighborhood DID like the the actions of a certain congregation in THE "old established church"!!!
THIS is NOT an "old established church."
Quote from: bigolo on February 19, 2010, 08:42:01 PM
And I might add that these people didn't/haven't moved here! They are just visitors which makes this situation that more sensitive .
Thanks for helping make my point!!! ;)
Quote from: bigolo on February 19, 2010, 08:25:02 PM
I might add! Bonster, get your head out of your ass
<echo, echo, echo, echo!> :D
Quote from: bigolo on February 19, 2010, 08:25:02 PM
I'm starting to think you are a grade A weirdo!!!!
You sound like my wife! Trace, is that you?
A wierdo?
That's rather polite, don't cha' think Bonster ?
Okay, found their "Business Card" on the wall at the 7-11 at 26th St & Oak Park Av.
Here is their email address from the card:
alcancevictoriachicago@yahoo.com
Pastor Ramon & Gloria Castro?
Found out BPD won't write noise tickets, as Mayor L. is in good with Cicero Town Pres. and their Victory Church!!
Quote from: Bonster on February 18, 2010, 11:14:09 AM
So just what exactly does a gang-banger look like?
Ever been to city hall?
Quote from: frankvdv on February 23, 2010, 02:42:43 PM
Okay, found their "Business Card" on the wall at the 7-11 at 26th St & Oak Park Av.
Here is their email address from the card:
alcancevictoriachicago@yahoo.com
Pastor Ramon & Gloria Castro?
Found out BPD won't write noise tickets, as Mayor L. is in good with Cicero Town Pres. and their Victory Church!!
May we please know A.) how you 'found out' and B.) from who? I think it would be wise to name names -- if this is true. Just sayin'...
Q: "May we please know A.) how you 'found out' and B.) from who?..."
A: (Enter the sound of crickets chirping...)
Yeah, I thought so too. Thank you LL--Schmidt for calling out another troll.
My sources are religous...Talk to your local church leader, they'll know....
Quote from: frankvdv on February 25, 2010, 01:53:42 PM
My sources are religous...Talk to your local church leader, they'll know....
Whatever...
Next
Quote from: Beans on February 18, 2010, 11:23:53 AM
Quote from: MRS. NORTHSIDER on February 18, 2010, 07:46:26 AM
I live basically right next to St. Leonard's and the train is a block away and MacNeal is also less than a block away. Yes, there is a noise factor but not an intrusive one and basically we are used to the common noises from all three. Once a year St. Leonard's has their Octoberfest (used to be fallfest) and they have live bands and it's quite loud. No problem once a year. But if I had to listen to that on a weekly basis I would be very less than thrilled. I would not expect that from a church regularly and don't think anyone else should especially since there has never been that level of loudness before.
BINGO!!!
Thank you MRS. NORTHSIDER.
Just wait 'till the weather gets warmer and they swing their doors and windows open - you think it's loud now... I'm telling ya, it's going to get worse.
These people are absolutely rude in addition to bringing in a bad element (rehabbing ex-cons...nice, thanks a lot).
They have no respect for the neighborhood.
Bonster,
"There is two kinds of music the good and bad. I play the good kind." - Louis Armstrong
There's some foul tunage leaking from that building. It'll wreck your sense of tonality if you're exposed to it for too long. Avoid it if you can.
Well, the weather is nice, the doors are wide open, this congregation of "supposedly" reformed ex-cons, druggies and gang-bangers have no problem disrupting a quiet area. The music is blasted, along with the rhetoric, and now they have something going on Friday and Sunday evenings. Now, if this is a truly Christian church, don't you think they would be more considerate of the area? Obviously, they don't care, and it seems that Lovero is too afraid to do anything about it.
Check out VictoryOutreach.com to see what this group is about. Reaching out to lost souls--in a poverty stricken area---I don't think this is what Berwyn needs.
And there are still alot of folks that are not happy about this congregation.