Glenview referendun defeated

[jake]

The back door wouldn't be necessary if the front door were open.

Do you talk to your significant other that way?

[The Jackal]

Jake,

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jake]

Yeah, but some people don't even try the front door, even when it may be opened.

  I don't think people should always assume the front door will always be closed and that, therefore, the only alternative is to sneak through the back door.

  Why not test the front door to see if it's unlocked?  Why assume it's always closed?

   Isn't that a better approach than a sneak attack through the back door?

Ummmmm....I will leave this alone.

[Mustang84]

I don't get ANY part of this post.

Front door or back door - it doesn't matter to me - what fries my ass is inaction

If "inaction" is what fries ones ass, then maybe having that ass pay for private school tuition would alleviate the burning sensation instead of having other unwilling asses trying to put out the fire.....OR......

maybe have that fried ass ask the tough questions of the ass (Lovero & Co.), metaphorically speaking, that really put the blow torch to the hide instead of firing missiles ONLY Cicero's way.

and here we sit, in typical Berwyn fashion - doing nothing.

No, you may not be paying attention...Berwyn simply said it's not going to get done the way you want it to get done.

Three types of communities: those that make things happen, those that watch things happen, and those, who from the beginning of time, and probably until the end of time, say "What the hell happened?"  I'm tired of being in the third category - thousands of kids are comprised - I'm tired of crime, gangs, drugs, Pitt Bulls, blaring cars, connections to organized crime, drug dealers, etc. -

Three types of people: those that make things happen, those that watch things happen, and those that demand everybody else help make it happen.

it's time for action

-

Sure is...start by consolidating school district(s)....only if the proper political infrastructure is in place will a tax increase referrendum stand any chance of passing.....

front door or back door

.....and then ONLY through the FRONT door...deceipt is a wretched concept.

This being said, there are reasons why low income communities are low income communities, and lack of foresight is one of them.

I'd say lack of income brings "lack of foresight"...

An unwillingness to support a better lifestyle via higher taxes is another.

You can't support something you may not be able to afford. Ironic how some who want a "better lifestyle" are unwilling to dig their hands SOLELY in their own pockets and make it happen. St. Mary's is a mile away, Fenwick two miles away or so....all it takes is dipping into that pocket instead of expecting everyone else to dig in also.

I think that Robert Pauly is a passionate person who has allowed this passion to blind him on some key issues. Just because DACEE recommends something des not mean it is the correct course of action, whether it be on flawed research (one can find research that dispels his point of view just as much as one can find research supporting it) or that it is not feasible due to budget constraints. What is obvious is that he has elevated what was once a good idea for an advisory group and lost touch that the voters decide how much they want to pay not DACEE. I have lost a gret deal of respect for him with these recent posts. I must say I agree with jackal on the points above

[buzz]

Here goes.
School Taxes                             RATE          2010%
Morton      D527                        .392              4.56
Berwyn    HS201                      1.858            21.60
School District 100                  2.499            29.05 
                                         
So, 55.21% of my total real estate taxes went to schools.  I don't feel the least bit guilty that I can't compete financially with a Naperville or Wilmette.
Don't let those doors hit ya' in the ass on the way out !
 
Anyone have the rate/percentage for D98 ?

[The Jackal]

buzz,

You don't have to compete with a Naperville or Wilmette. You live in Berwyn. If Bob or anyone else wants a Naperville type education for their kids though, Fenwick is a stones throw away...but ALAS, that would require digging only into ONE (their own) pocket, not everybody elses as well.

That doesn't obscure or vitiate the fact that a quality hs district is of paramount importance, but if one is asking an already burdened to the hilt PUBLIC to fund such an endeavor, then certain prerequisites must be present.....political infrastructure, autonomous and/or trustworthy hs board, consolidated school dist, etc.....BEFORE any tax increase referrendum can be even entertained.

It appears to me there's a certain subset within Berwyn pushing said tax increase fervently that is all too willing to bump their own taxes and more importantly the taxes of their neighbors a couple of hundred bucks a year in the name of a better education, but NOT WILLING AT ALL to pay the 10-12 K a year a top notch private hs education costs for their little precious darlings.

The solutions are simple, IMO, and they can be found right across Harlem Avenue and/or two miles north of Roosevelt. Either pony up the 10-12K/year x 4 yrs for Fenwick, OR, move west of Harlem/south of 22nd and see where your taxes and mortgage payments skyrocket to. If the little kiddies education is so important, then I don't see why people like Bob wouldn't be willing to make the sacrifice that those in Riverside do (or that those in Berwyn who send their kids to private schools do) instead of demnding people of lesser means than themselves in Berwyn agree to a bump up in taxes.

[OakParkSpartan]

Don't you think that a community has a moral obligation to educate their kids as best as they can?  How does your city in Indiana stack up for schools compared to Berwyn?  Much better I would guess.

[Ted]

Anyone have the rate/percentage for D98 ?

Tax rates are higher in D98 than in D100, both for regular expenses and for debt payoff. I also added in City of Berwyn for comparison purposes:

D98
  Total Rate: 2.836
  Of that, .6548 is for debt payoff
  and, 2.181 is for regular expenses

D100
   Total Rate: 2.499
   Of that, .4483 is for debt payoff
   and, 2.050 is for regular expenses

City of Berwyn:
   Total Rate: 2.310
   Of that, .5330 is for debt payoff
   and, 1.777 is for regular expenses

 
   One more point - If the bond proposal had passed last summer, D100's debt rate would have increased from .4483 to .7759 !!!

[The Jackal]

Don't you think that a community has a moral obligation to educate their kids as best as they can?  How does your city in Indiana stack up for schools compared to Berwyn?  Much better I would guess.

EVERY city has a moral obligation to educate its kids.......SUBJECT to its financial wherewithall and circumstances. That's why Naperville is Naperville and Berwyn is Berwyn. Its not a matter of IF, but rather a matter of HOW MUCH and UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES.

On the flip side, every parent also has the INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY to educate his/her own child. Therefore, if the community you live in isn't willing to spend the $$$$ necessary to educate "appropriately" (for whatever reason), you have two choices: 1) Move to a community that does, and/or 2) Put your hand in the ole pocket and pay for it solely by yourself....as SOME people in Berwyn already do. 

That's not to say that Berwyn should settle for the status quo, but a tax increase referrendum under the current circumstances is irresponsible, idiotic and ludicrous. Change some of those circumstances and then maybe.......instead of trying to backdoor already financially strapped people to death.

As to your final question, the short answer is you get what you (not EVERYBODY else as well) pay for. I want a top flight education for my kids so I pay double in purchase price and double in property taxes. I don't move to a community with relatively affordable housing and moderate property taxes and then expect a Wilmette or Naperville type education while exhorting my neighbors to supports a couple hundred/thousand dollar a year tax hike so that I can receive a benefit I'm completely unwilling to pay for all by myself. Kind of selfish and self serving, if you ask me.

[OakParkSpartan]

So basically you suggest people just accept whatever is here and not try and improve things.  That seems like a VERY old school Berwyn attitude.

I'm glad to see people trying to make positive changes, not just fleeing the town.

[The Jackal]

No, I didn't say that...YOU did.

What I said was basically don't put the cart before the horse, especially for fairly evident self serving purposes.

It seems like quite a few other Berwyn residents (even newcomers) agree, wholeheartedly.

Throwing money (especially other people's) at the problem doesn't solve it.

In Berwyn's case, it makes it worse...and Berwyn can ill afford any more mistakes.

Just a hypo here, but tell me your thoughts.....unified school districts, city manager form of government, stand alone hs district, qualified/competent Berwyn hs board...if all these things are present, what do you feel the likelihood of a tax increase referrendum passing is? My guess is that it would significantly increase.

Point is, fix the problems first, THEN ask people for more money.

DEMANDING a tax increase isn't fixing the problem/making positive change...its simply trying to address the CURRENT problem(s) of a few with the pocketbook(s) of many.

[Robert Pauly]

I think that Robert Pauly is a passionate person who has allowed this passion to blind him on some key issues. Just because DACEE recommends something des not mean it is the correct course of action, whether it be on flawed research (one can find research that dispels his point of view just as much as one can find research supporting it) or that it is not feasible due to budget constraints. What is obvious is that he has elevated what was once a good idea for an advisory group and lost touch that the voters decide how much they want to pay not DACEE. I have lost a gret deal of respect for him with these recent posts. I must say I agree with jackal on the points above

Thank you for your kind comments.  I am sorry for having lost your respect.

There will come a day - mark these words - when preschool will become mandated.  Most - I regret not being able to say "all" - will acknowledge that Berwyn had arrived a day late and a dollar short - by then, the world will have moved onto something else, and Berwyn, again, will be driving in the right lane.

As for your "budget constraints", it's all relative.  There are 17 Cook County communities with Berwyn-like demographics - D100 has the 14th lowest school tax rate.  Obviously, south Berwyn cares more about "budget constraints" than others.

It boils down to your view on quality, public education: is it essential or elective?  I agree with you that the voter has spoken.  If only the voter represented the constituency.

As to your insinuation, Jackal, the advocates of these and other progressive, educational initiatives will never derive a shred of direct benefit from any of them.  Living in a nicer community in 20 years might be the exception.

[buzz]

  One more point - If the bond proposal had passed last summer, D100's debt rate would have increased from .4483 to .7759 !!!

Thanks. 
I can only imagine what the reaction will be when D100 announces they want to replace Hiawatha !  They've kept that issue pretty much on the down low.

[The Jackal]

As for your "budget constraints", it's all relative.  There are 17 Cook County communities with Berwyn-like demographics - D100 has the 14th lowest school tax rate.  Obviously, south Berwyn cares more about "budget constraints" than others.

Again, what does this mean?

Which communities are these and what makes them "Berwyn like"? How many of these "Berwyn like communities" have two different grammar school districts, a high school board with a 201 like history dominated in composition by a neighboring town advancing its own political agenda, a hs district configuration which yields maximum output (relatively speaking in tax dollars) for minimum return (% of students),  a track record of "back door" maneuvers which has alienated and angered many constituents, a municipal government which continually finds new and unique ways (eg padded pensions, TIF handouts) to drain an already strapped tax base, etc., etc., etc......??

Facts and figures can be manipulated all sorts of different ways.

As for these "progressive" educational initiatives (even though I'm not all that certain whats so "progressive" about publicly funded kindergarten), well, a community can have only what it can afford. The Berwyn taxpayer has continuously told you that, given what was stated above, they're not willing/unable to fund mandated kindergarten. Now maybe if some of the "progressive leaders" in town actually addressed the issues (see 2nd paragraph above) which alienate Berwyn taxpayers instead of continuously harping on misleading facts/figures, then publcily funded kindergarten wouldn't be such a pipe dream.

The horse goes before the cart, not vice versa.

[Bonster]

If only the voter represented the constituency.

Oh, but they most certainly DO.
Thankfully they do not represent the vocal minority and their bad logic.

[OakParkSpartan]

The two people seemingly arguing the most about preschool in District 100 don't even live there.

And you two both keep doing it over and over and over.

Let other people discuss the topic.  You two (Jackal and Bonster) just won't quit and shut down ANY discussion of preschool in D100.

I've asked you nicely.  Please humor me.

[MRS. NORTHSIDER]

The two people seemingly arguing the most about preschool in District 100 don't even live there.

And you two both keep doing it over and over and over.

Let other people discuss the topic.  You two (Jackal and Bonster) just won't quit and shut down ANY discussion of preschool in D100.

I've asked you nicely.  Please humor me.

Actually, very few people who pay taxes in District 100 have chimed in here on the issue of a tax increase for "preschool for all" but the ones who have are pretty much against it except for a few.  From what I've read the meeting they had about it prior to the vote most of the people there were against it also.  You have a few advocating for the many when it comes to this issue.  Am I for educating our kids?  Yes, but there are limitations to what we can do.  Again, scores are going up in the district with full day kindergarten and let's not forget about the free preschool that's provided to kids who are "at risk" of not succeeding in kindergarten because of developmental delays or other problems.

[Bonster]

Let other people discuss the topic.  You two (Jackal and Bonster) just won't quit and shut down ANY discussion of preschool in D100.

I've asked you nicely.  Please humor me.

Really?

Mark,

Here is what I don't get.  How can D100 voters force D98 (a separate district) to implement preschool? 

You asked a question, and I had exactly three posts since then, one in direct response. 
Over and out.

[Ted]

The two people seemingly arguing the most about preschool in District 100 don't even live there.

And you two both keep doing it over and over and over.

Let other people discuss the topic.  You two (Jackal and Bonster) just won't quit and shut down ANY discussion of preschool in D100.

I've asked you nicely.  Please humor me.

OK. I live in D100.  The problem with this whole discussion is this - there are two issues:

1. Do you support public pre-school for 3 and 4 year olds?

2. Do you support the finanical plan proposed to the D100 board last summer to pay for public pre-school for 3 and 4 year olds?

  If I had gone to my boss with a financial plan that called for a large capital expenditure, a large on-going yearly cost, a 70% increase in the company's debt and which had only a revenue life span of only 1 year, this is what would have happened.

First, my boss would have laughed in my face for presenting a financial proposal that had a life span of only one year without any sources of revenue to support the project in the years after year 1.

  Second, he would then have thrown me out of the room for presenting such a stupid non-sensical financial plan that would have put the company deep into debt without any long term thinking for the years beyond year 1.

That, Brian, is the main problem.  Yet, the advocates have made it out to be that opposition to a fool hardy financial plan is equivalent to being Dath Vader and a meany to little kids.

  That is what people are starting to resent, especially when they hear it over and over again for 6 months.

  Ted

[The Jackal]

The two people seemingly arguing the most about preschool in District 100 don't even live there.

And you two both keep doing it over and over and over.

Let other people discuss the topic.  You two (Jackal and Bonster) just won't quit and shut down ANY discussion of preschool in D100.

I've asked you nicely.  Please humor me.

Brian,

Are topic postings now limited to residents and non residents? Because if you ARE indeed attempting to place such limits, then I guess you too should be barred from posting on this thread.

I've made exactly FOUR posts on the topic. Not ONE has been combative and from what I can tell, just about everyone on the thread except you and Mr. Pauly agree with me.  In fact, mustang 84 has explicitly stated he agrees completely with my initial post.

I'm not sure where you get I'm trying to "shut down" discussion of D100 preschool. Is that what you call it when people set forth logical arguments which another party can't respond to? Is that what you call it when self serving, distorted rhetoric at least in part based on deception is ferreted out?

If that's the case, then I'll bid this thread adieu and apologize for any inconvenience I may have caused. As a parting suggestion, I would submit that in the future you completely bar from threads anyone who has a viewpoint opposing yours. Saves a lot of aggravation.

p.s. I'm ALL FOR D100 preschool...just not under Mr. Pauly's terms and certainly not on his timeline.