Author Topic: CC Agenda-7/10/2012  (Read 9796 times)

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Offline Ted

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CC Agenda-7/10/2012
« on: July 08, 2012, 07:12:57 AM »

 Most interesting items are TIF allocations for Michael Anthony ($7K) and Cigar's and Stripes ($43K); a $132K HVAC cost on the fire station at Gunderson & Windsor; the city's audit report and a request to hire 3 police officers:

  Why does Michael Anthony get only $7K of TIF money while its pizza competitor right down the street (Paison's) got over $750K in TIF money and it competes with Michael Anthony?  Doesn't seem very fair.

                          BERWYN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
                                          JULY 10, 2012

DEAR ATTENDEE.....THE MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL WELCOME YOU. PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT THIS IS A MEETING OF THE MAYOR AND COUNCIL MEMBERS AS OPPOSED TO A PUBLIC HEARING WHERE ATTENDEES ARE ENCOURAGED TO PARTICIPATE. UNLESS INVITED BY THE MAYOR TO SPEAK, YOU ARE REQUESTED NOT TO INTERRUPT. IF YOU ARE RECOGNIZED BY THE MAYOR, PLEASE PREFACE YOUR REMARKS BY STATING YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD. THANK YOU.

ROBERT J. LOVERO                                                           THOMAS J. PAVLIK
MAYOR                                                                                  CITY CLERK
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AGENDA
ROLL CALL

(A) PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE - MOMENT OF SILENCE

(B) OPEN FORUM - (TOPIC MUST NOT BE ON THE AGENDA)

(C) PRESENTATION OF PREVIOUS MEETINGS MINUTES FOR APPROVAL
1. REGULAR MEETING 6/24/12 - COW-6/24/12

(D) BID OPENING–TABULATIONS

(E) BERWYN DEVELOPMENT CORP.-BERWYN TOWNSHIP/HEALTH DISTRICT
1. BDC-TIF APPLICATION-MICHAEL ANTHONY’S, 6434 OGDEN AVE.
2. BDC-TIF APPLICATION-CIGARS AND STRIPES, 6715 OGDEN AVE.

(F) REPORTS AND COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE MAYOR

(G) REPORTS AND COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE CITY CLERK
1. APPOINTMENT AND SWEARING IN OF NEW DEPUTY CLERK-RUTH WASIUKIEWICZ
2. APPROVAL OF CLOSED COW MINUTES OF-3/27/12, 4/10/12, 4/12/12 & 6/12/12
3. RIDE FOR LIBERTY 2012

(H) COMMUNICATIONS FROM (ZONING) BOARD OF APPEALS

(I) REPORTS AND COMMUNICATIONS FROM ALDERMEN, COMMITTEES OTHER BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS

(J) STAFF REPORTS
1. POLICE CHIEF-REQUEST TO HIRE THREE (3) POLICE OFFICERS
2. PROJECT OPERATIONS MANAGER-CONTRACT AWARD -CLEANING EXISTING HVAC AT SOUTH FIRE STATION-6436 WINDSOR AVENUE
3. FINANCE DIR- 2011 (CAFR) COMPREHENSIVE ANNUAL FINANCIAL REPORT BERWYN CITY COUNCIL MEETING

(K) CONSENT AGENDA: ALL ITEMS ON THE CONSENT AGENDA ARE CONSIDERED TO BE ROUTINE IN NATURE AND WILL BE ENACTED IN ONE MOTION. THERE WILL BE NO SEPARATE DISCUSSION OF THESE ITEMS UNLESS A COUNCIL MEMBER SO REQUESTS, IN WHICH EVENT THE ITEM WILL BE REMOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA AND CONSIDERED AS THE FIRST ITEM AFTER
APPROVAL OF THE CONSENT AGENDA
1. BUDGET CHAIR-PAYROLL-7/3/12-$1,082,742.63
2. BUDGET CHAIR-PAYABLES-7/10/12-$1,488,932.66
3. BUILDING DEPT.-BUILDING AND LOCAL IMPROVEMENT PERMITS FOR
4. BLOCK PARTY-3200 BLOCK OF HOME – 7/28/12-RAIN DATE 7/29/12
5. BLOCK PARTY-1400 BLOCK OF CUYLER AVE- 8/18/12-RAIN DATE 8/25/12
6. BLOCK PARTY-1600 BLOCK OF HOME – 7/28/12-RAIN DATE-8/4/12
7. BLOCK PARTY-1600 BLOCK OF CLINTON-7/21/12-RAIN DATE-7/28/12
8. BLOCK PARTY-3400 BLOCK OF HOME-7/21/12-RAIN DATE-7/22/12
9. BLOCK PARTY-1800 BLOCK OF CLINTON-7/28/12-RAIN DATE-8/4/12
10. BLOCK GARAGE SALE-1800 BLOCK OF CLINTON-7/14/12 & 7/15/12
11. ST MICHAEL AND ALL ANGELS RUMMAGE SALE-7/7/12 & 7/8/12
12. ST. LEONARD 3rd ANNUAL BLOCKTOBERFEAST-10/6/12-8:30-10:00 PM-RAIN
DATE 10/7/12-8:30 AM TO 10:00 PM
13. NEWLIFE COMMUNITY CHURCH-YEARLY RUMMAGE SALE-1900 S.
OAK PARK-8/4/12-9:00AM TO 4:00PM
14. LECTURA MONTESSORI SCHOOL-GARAGE SALE-7/7/12
15. BLOCK PARTY-1900 BLOCK OF HARVEY-7/21/12
ITEMS SUBMITTED ON TIME 24
______________________________
THOMAS J. PAVLIK - CITY CLERK
In accordance with the provisions of the Americans with disabilities Act, any individual who is in the need of a reasonable accommodation in order to participate in or benefit from attendance at a public meeting of the City of Berwyn should contact Thomas J. Pavlik, City Clerk at 708/788-2660 as soon as possible before the meeting date. 

Offline OakParkSpartan

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Re: CC Agenda-7/10/2012
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2012, 02:47:42 PM »
Maybe because the project won't cost that much?

I hope you aren't suggesting more money should be given to Michael Anthony's just because somewhere down the street got 100x's as much...Come to think of it, I think that WAS what you suggested! 
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." -- Plato

Offline SimplyBerwyn

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Re: CC Agenda-7/10/2012
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2012, 03:33:34 PM »

Why does Michael Anthony get only $7K of TIF money while its pizza competitor right down the street (Paison's) got over $750K in TIF money and it competes with Michael Anthony?  Doesn't seem very fair.


Maybe because the project won't cost that much?

I hope you aren't suggesting more money should be given to Michael Anthony's just because somewhere down the street got 100x's as much...Come to think of it, I think that WAS what you suggested!

Why else? It's a conspiracy.   ::)
Hope will never be silent. --Harvey Milk

Offline berwynguy

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Re: CC Agenda-7/10/2012
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2012, 05:11:51 PM »

Why does Michael Anthony get only $7K of TIF money while its pizza competitor right down the street (Paison's) got over $750K in TIF money and it competes with Michael Anthony?  Doesn't seem very fair.


Maybe because the project won't cost that much?

I hope you aren't suggesting more money should be given to Michael Anthony's just because somewhere down the street got 100x's as much...Come to think of it, I think that WAS what you suggested!

Why else? It's a conspiracy.   ::)

One in which Frankie Marzullo plays a sinister role!  :666:
Unfortunately, this ain't your grandmother's Berwyn anymore.

Offline SimplyBerwyn

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Re: CC Agenda-7/10/2012
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2012, 07:46:17 PM »

Why does Michael Anthony get only $7K of TIF money while its pizza competitor right down the street (Paison's) got over $750K in TIF money and it competes with Michael Anthony?  Doesn't seem very fair.


Maybe because the project won't cost that much?

I hope you aren't suggesting more money should be given to Michael Anthony's just because somewhere down the street got 100x's as much...Come to think of it, I think that WAS what you suggested!

Why else? It's a conspiracy.   ::)

One in which Frankie Marzullo plays a sinister role!  :666:

Of course!  ;)
Hope will never be silent. --Harvey Milk

Offline Ted

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Re: CC Agenda-7/10/2012
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2012, 06:19:33 AM »

 No, I am not suggesting Michael Anthony should get more money.

 My point is this - Michael Anthony's tax dollars have been going into the Ogden TIF since the TIF's inception. Yet, its tax dollars were then used so that a competitor could open up down the street, to the tune of over $750K.

 That is what doesn't seem fair.

Offline OakParkSpartan

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Re: CC Agenda-7/10/2012
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2012, 07:45:07 AM »

 No, I am not suggesting Michael Anthony should get more money.

 My point is this - Michael Anthony's tax dollars have been going into the Ogden TIF since the TIF's inception. Yet, its tax dollars were then used so that a competitor could open up down the street, to the tune of over $750K.

 That is what doesn't seem fair.

And so have a bunch of other businesses that haven't received money.

I'm not sure how the "fair" bit comes into play.  Michael Anthony's has had the opportunity to apply for the funds before, they never did.  Their choice.
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." -- Plato

Offline Ted

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Re: CC Agenda-7/10/2012
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2012, 08:23:06 AM »

 "Fair" comes into play because Michael Anthony's tax dollars went to the opening up of a competitor down the street?

  How would you like it if 20 years of tax dollars that you had paid were given to a competitor to compete with you?

Offline NYWREB

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Re: CC Agenda-7/10/2012
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2012, 08:30:09 AM »
Are grown adults really arguing that something isn't "fair"?!?   Did your parents never teach you that life isn't fair?!?

I am sure michael anthony's is not the only berwyn business to pay into a TIF fund that has then used money to support a competitor.  It's a 'free market' right?


Offline OakParkSpartan

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Re: CC Agenda-7/10/2012
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2012, 09:24:40 AM »

 "Fair" comes into play because Michael Anthony's tax dollars went to the opening up of a competitor down the street?

  How would you like it if 20 years of tax dollars that you had paid were given to a competitor to compete with you?

By that reasoning, TIF's should be done away with?  Or should funds somehow be divided up? 

How would you classify Michael Anthony's?  A restaurant, a pizza joint, a bar?  Since they compete with every other establishment, I think those would all be legitimate.

So you are basically advocating that car dealers pay for anything non-automotive, restaurants pay for non-food vendors.  Now should be break it down to Mexican restaurants, Diners etc?  You see where this is leading?

Michael Anthony's would have paid those taxes even if there was NOT  a TIF in place.

Fair to one person is unfair to another.
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." -- Plato

Offline berwynguy

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Re: CC Agenda-7/10/2012
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2012, 10:47:02 AM »
Are grown adults really arguing that something isn't "fair"?!?   Did your parents never teach you that life isn't fair?!?

I am sure michael anthony's is not the only berwyn business to pay into a TIF fund that has then used money to support a competitor.  It's a 'free market' right?

That's Ted's M.O.  "It's not fair!"  It's not fair that Bobby Lovero is mayor!  It's not fair that OOT got TIF money twice!  It's not fair that cops/fireman campaign for political candidates!  It's not fair that Felix got promoted!  It's not fair that no one likes me! 

Ted, were you one of those kids that always "tied?"  Did you get one of those "everybody wins" trophies when you played sports as a kid?  Darwinism LOVES people like you.  Whiners like you are the fuel that winners feed off of when they survive/get to the top while you become extinct. 

Ted, when are you going to get this through your thick skull?  This is a dog eat dog world.  If someone sees a pile of TIF money available to the business who takes the time to apply for it, then the smart ones will go for it.  If it's there why not?  If you can have better job security if you're a cop or fireman by campaigning for the "in" politician who's gonna look out for you, then you do what you have to do.  If you say that you wouldn't do it if you were in that position you are either full of shit or you have absolutely NO drive or ambition to ever move ahead.  This is life pal.  It isn't fair, and with things the way they are, people are going to do whatever they have to do if the end result benefits number one, get me?  Is it bad?  Is it good?  It's just the way it is, so quit your crying. 
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 10:51:50 AM by berwynguy »
Unfortunately, this ain't your grandmother's Berwyn anymore.

Offline Ted

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Re: CC Agenda-7/10/2012
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2012, 11:33:06 AM »
Are grown adults really arguing that something isn't "fair"?!?   Did your parents never teach you that life isn't fair?!?

I am sure michael anthony's is not the only berwyn business to pay into a TIF fund that has then used money to support a competitor.  It's a 'free market' right?

  I agree that Life isn't fair.  But, we're not talking about the vagueries of Life here.  We're talking about tax dollars.

  If I owned a business, I sure as heck wouldn't want to see my tax dollars be used to help a competitor open up down the street.

Offline Ted

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Re: CC Agenda-7/10/2012
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2012, 11:40:07 AM »
  btw, would people be using the "life isn't fair" argument for someone like Todd Stroger hiring his cousins on to the Cook County payroll?

 Is that another example of a "dog eat dog" world that we should just accept 'cuz that's just the way things are in Cook County?

  life isn't fair in Illinois politics, so we should just accept patronage and nepotism and cronyism and political favoritism as it is?

 
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 11:41:56 AM by Ted »

Offline berwynguy

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Re: CC Agenda-7/10/2012
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2012, 11:56:42 AM »
Ted, let me ask you an honest question.  If you were, let's say a Berwyn policeman and you lived in Plainfield, would you work campaigning for Lovero, O'Connor, or who ever if you knew you would have better job security and some "benefits" if your guy won?  Please answer this question honestly. 
Unfortunately, this ain't your grandmother's Berwyn anymore.

Offline berwynguy

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Re: CC Agenda-7/10/2012
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2012, 02:47:14 PM »
Ted, here's a new tagline for your signature:

The Thugocracy still exists.  It has never gone away and it will continue to exist as long as some disgruntled people work as cyber bullies, political operatives, and shills for the IVB and the remnants of Michael O'Connor failed administration.  The same people who go out of their way to try and find fault and perceived problems with the Administration and city workers instead of working to make Berwyn better.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 04:23:40 PM by berwynguy »
Unfortunately, this ain't your grandmother's Berwyn anymore.

Offline berwynguy

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Re: CC Agenda-7/10/2012
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2012, 03:03:08 PM »
For the others out there who STILL don't get it after all these years, I have some homework for you.  I know that some of you moved here from bum fuck where ever where the politics were supposedly as clean as a whistle.  This may come as a shock to you, but "corrupt" politics didn't originate in Berwyn.  Your idols that run the Democratic Party have been taught by a LONG line of masters at a game that isn't for the faint of heart.  If you want to educate yourself on how this all started and continued over the past 140 years read these books in THIS order.  These books sure opened up my eyes. 

Lords of the Levee, 1943, Authors: Herman Kogan and Lloyd Wendt

Boss Cermak of Chicago; A Study of Political Leadership, 1962, Author: Alex Gottfried

Boss, Richard J. Daley of Chicago, 1972, Author: Mike Royko

Clout, Mayor Daley and His City, 1975, Author: Len O'Connor
Unfortunately, this ain't your grandmother's Berwyn anymore.

Offline OakParkSpartan

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Re: CC Agenda-7/10/2012
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2012, 03:06:11 PM »
Just because political corruption has been going on for a long time, doesn't make it right.  Nor does it mean we need to pay for it.

Rape and slavery have been around for ages.  Doesn't make that right either.
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." -- Plato

Offline berwynguy

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Re: CC Agenda-7/10/2012
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2012, 03:11:46 PM »
Just because political corruption has been going on for a long time, doesn't make it right.  Nor does it mean we need to pay for it.

Rape and slavery have been around for ages.  Doesn't make that right either.

Nope, it doesn't make it right, but anybody with half a brain knows that is isn't going to be solved on Berwyn Talk Forum, or ANYWHERE in Berwyn for that matter.  These problems are systemic and bigger then Ted Korbus, you, or I.   

Acting self righteous and sanctimonious doesn't make him, you, or anyone else morally superior to the rest of us.  You are just as guilty as a "corrupt" policeman or fireman working the precincts for a politician, when you go into the voting booth and keep voting the same Illinois hacks in term after term. 
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 03:19:27 PM by berwynguy »
Unfortunately, this ain't your grandmother's Berwyn anymore.

Offline SimplyBerwyn

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Re: CC Agenda-7/10/2012
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2012, 04:00:35 PM »
For the others out there who STILL don't get it after all these years, I have some homework for you.  I know that some of you moved here from bum fuck where ever where the politics were supposedly as clean as a whistle.  This may come as a shock to you, but "corrupt" politics didn't originate in Berwyn.  Your idols that run the Democratic Party have been taught by a LONG line of masters at a game that isn't for the faint of heart.  If you want to educate yourself on how this all started and continued over the past 140 years read these books in THIS order.  These books sure opened up my eyes. 

Lords of the Levee, 1943, Authors: Herman Kogan and Lloyd Wendt

Boss Cermak of Chicago; A Study of Political Leadership, 1962, Author: Alex Gottfried

Boss, Richard J. Daley of Chicago, 1972, Author: Mike Royko

Clout, Mayor Daley and His City, 1975, Author: Len O'Connor

All very good books. 
Hope will never be silent. --Harvey Milk

Offline markberwyn

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Re: CC Agenda-7/10/2012
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2012, 04:55:42 PM »
Just because political corruption has been going on for a long time, doesn't make it right.  Nor does it mean we need to pay for it.

Rape and slavery have been around for ages.  Doesn't make that right either.

Nope, it doesn't make it right, but anybody with half a brain knows that is isn't going to be solved on Berwyn Talk Forum, or ANYWHERE in Berwyn for that matter.  These problems are systemic and bigger then Ted Korbus, you, or I.   

Absolutely! Why should you bother trying to change things? That's stuff that people with half a brain do!

I remember once that there was a person here who was going to "change" things on this board by taking on news-reporting responsibilities that he felt were lacking in the Life. He reported on a robbery that happened, and he said it was committed by black men in ski masks. I asked how he knew the assailants were black if they were wearing ski masks. Holy smokes did this guy pitch a fit! He was all up in arms about having *any* questions asked of him, got all mad---behaved like a child, frankly---and never reported on crime in Berwyn again. (No loss---the Life had that story he was so certain it missed.) Sounds like a guy with half a brain to me!

"This is a fun house, honey, and if you don’t like the two-way mirror, go f*&# yourself." ---Berwyn community pillar Ronnie Lottz, on the undisclosed two-way mirror in the women's restroom at Cigars & Stripes