GDP

[Mr. Daniel Lumis]

 
Oeno,

Here's an idea: why don't you run for Congress? You seem to know everything about everything! I'm sure you'd agree. You could serve as our nation's first true, non-gasbag politician. I can see it now: "Oeno goes to Washington!" You could singlehandedly fix our healthcare system, the economy, the judicial system, the executive branch, everything! You know what's best for everyone. AND, here's the big bonus: since you wouldn't be caught dead suckling at the federal teat, we would save a crapload of money because you'd do it for free! I know you would because you're that kind of guy. You're the caring, compassionate type who recognizes the role of societal cooperation. I know that sounds kind of "liberal" and therefore "bad" but I think in your first speech to the nation you could put on that white straw hat I always picture you in and stand on the steps of the capitol and go on and on and on and on, all without a teleprompter! That would win points with the doubters and the haters. The point is this Oeno, your genius is wasted here in Berwyn. Save me from the liberal menace. Run for Congress...Come on! I'll be the first to sign your petition...

Very truly yours,

Mr. Daniel Lumis

Mr. Danial Loomis:   Veiled hatred.

berwynson

Hatred no. Frustration and disappointment, yes.

[eno]

And besides: If the president has really and truly, as you say, unleashed a Great Terribleness upon the land in which Americans' "personal freedoms" are being violated willy-nilly, you should be able to unleash a long and persuasive list of these violations, instead of sadly clinging to a subset of corporate stockholders who are complaining that they got a bad deal when GM got restructured.

I'm not keening; You raised the question of President Obama and "personal freedoms" out of the blue! You asked for anyone to provide an example of how he has "restricted" personal freedoms; quote markberwyn:

"How have your personal freedoms been restricted since the president took office...?"

I gave you an example and you rejected it because suddenly the "restriction" of a personal freedom was insufficient, and did not constitute the "violation" of a personal freedom, since the president only "restricted" but didn't go so far as to repeal entirely the right to own property; quote markberwyn:

"...To the extent that these people are still allowed to own property, I don't see how this is a "personal freedoms issue..."

What's your agenda?

eno

[markberwyn]

What's your agenda?

Debullshitification.

[eno]

What's your agenda?

Debullshitification.

Then, physician, heal thyself!

[markberwyn]

What's your agenda?

Debullshitification.

Then, physician, heal thyself!

So I think we're settled here. The president has made some investors unhappy. This is part of the risk of being an investor for some; for others, this is a violation of personal freedoms.

[markberwyn]

Maybe there's something about the right to choose your own haircut in the Constitution.

[eno]

Is "life" a personal freedom? How about liberty?

If, as markberwyn contends, a U.S. president can take soemone's property without due process of law (i.e. a court proceeding), can the president deprive an American citizen of his liberty or his life without a trial?

Would such action by a president constitute restricting one's personal freedom? If you execute an American citizen without a trial, he can't live again can he?

Let's take it a step further, especially for those angels of truth, consistency, and objectivity whose agenda is "debullshitification". Assume the following facts: a candidate for president (we'll call him...Barack Obama) argued that detaining a person (citizen or not) without a trial was unlawful and immoral. Let's further assume that at his inauguration address, President Obama dedicated some of his speech to restoring America's morality in that regard. Finally, let's assume that President Obama not only continued these "immoral" detention policies, but also began executing people (including American citizens) without a trial.

Restriction of a personal right? Violation? Obama's position before the election; bullshit? How about his actions after his inauguration; bullshit?

[markberwyn]

Is "life" a personal freedom? How about liberty?

If, as markberwyn contends, a U.S. president can take soemone's property without due process of law (i.e. a court proceeding), can the president deprive an American citizen of his liberty or his life without a trial?

Would such action by a president constitute restricting one's personal freedom? If you execute an American citizen without a trial, he can't live again can he?

Let's take it a step further, especially for those angels of truth, consistency, and objectivity whose agenda is "debullshitification". Assume the following facts: a candidate for president (we'll call him...Barack Obama) argued that detaining a person (citizen or not) without a trial was unlawful and immoral. Let's further assume that at his inauguration address, President Obama dedicated some of his speech to restoring America's morality in that regard. Finally, let's assume that President Obama not only continued these "immoral" detention policies, but also began executing people (including American citizens) without a trial.

Restriction of a personal right? Violation? Obama's position before the election; bullshit? How about his actions after his inauguration; bullshit?

Thread's over, eno.

[Ted]

Some questions for the Obama Haters - Do you think this country would have been better off letting GM fail and go under? Or worse off?

  Would the GM bond holders have been better off or worse off?

Is this country better off or worse off in preventing banks from failing?

If a bank fails, is the country seizing the bank considered an act of "taking personal property?"  If so, should we just allow people lose their money (like in the Great Depression) just willy nilly due to the bank they chose?

[Ted]

I'm channeling Ted here: "The Thugocracy still exists. It has never gone away and it will continue to exist ... 

Why are you knocking the thugocracy?  After all, they gave you that sweetheart deal on your property taxes in 1986. 

[eno]

Ted:

Tax was $193 (not $137).

It was for single family home at 3517 S. Damen. My dad inherited his father's home when he passed, and the bill was sent to my Berwyn home; my son found it in the garage a few months back with our Berwyn address on it, and I assumed it was for my 3-flat here because the only address on it is the Berwyn address.

I've plugged in the pin number and it registers to Chicago; also on the face of the bill it lists  the "town" as "76001 South Chicago. Breakdown of taxes:

7.67 Chgo School Finance Authority   
18.40 Chicago Park District
70.69 Board of Education
53.44 City of Chicago
3.97 City of Chicago
9.87 Chicago Community College District 508
11.89 Metropolitan Sanitary Dist of Greater Chgo
1.93 Forest Preserve District of Cook County
9.43 County of Cook
6.63 Cook County Health Facilities
____________________________
193.79  TOTAL  TAX

eno

P.S.  Why the personal attack against me?

[eno]

Some questions for the Obama Haters - Do you think this country would have been better off letting GM fail and go under? Or worse off?

  Would the GM bond holders have been better off or worse off?

Is this country better off or worse off in preventing banks from failing?

If a bank fails, is the country seizing the bank considered an act of "taking personal property?"  If so, should we just allow people lose their money (like in the Great Depression) just willy nilly due to the bank they chose?

Ted:

Do you know anything about how Bankruptcy works? Explain by what authority a president (even one for whom you abandon all reason and common sense, and support slavishly) can put himself above the laws he is sworn to faithfully execute? How do you know that if GM filed for Bankruptcy, they would have failed and gone under? Kindly provide some evidence of that...

As for banks, are you just throwing out your regular B.S., or did you just happen to forget about the federal laws we already have which protect people's money? Ever heard of FDIC?

[Ted]

P.S.  Why the personal attack against me?

There was no personal attack.  I just didn't understand why your property taxes were so low in Berwyn on a 2- or 3- flat while I was paying over $1,000 on a small single family home.

Thanks for explaining.
 
  Yours Truly,
  The "infantile", "deceptive"  Ted

   

[Ted]

As for banks, are you just throwing out your regular B.S., or did you just happen to forget about the federal laws we already have which protect people's money? Ever heard of FDIC?

Yes, I do know about FDIC.  Why does it exist?  Shouldn't the free market apply when it comes to money in a bank, just like everything else you believe the free market should apply to?

  As for GM, how can YOU be so sure it would not have gone under?  Then where would the bond holders be?

[eno]

Ted:

You reduce everything to the absurd; I don't believe that the free market should do everything. Why do you believe the government should do everything?

There you go again moving the goal-post and twisting people's words; you're the one who allowed for no options, and proclaimed:

"Do you think this country would have been better off letting GM fail and go under?"

How do you know that GM might not have restructured and reorganized, instead? You didn't allow for that possibility; why?

Also, you haven't answered by what authority the president was lawfully able to avoid the very laws that provide for this situation; is the president above the law? 

[Bonster]

KETTLE:

You reduce everything to the absurd  .  .  .  .  .  .   .

There you go again moving the goal-post and twisting people's words ..  ..  ..  ..  ..  ..  ..  ..  .. 

Bwaaahahaha!

[Ted]

Tax was $193 (not $137)....  It was for single family home at 3517 S. Damen.

Even for Chicago, that's pretty low property taxes for 1986.

Your father must have been getting the senior exemption for taxes to be that low in 1986.

Eno, are you happy that the big, bad government gave your Dad a senior exemption on his property taxes?

[berwynson]

Pray tell, Ted, how ANY holder of ANY security investment instrument, is guaranteed profit, much less at no risk?

Please explain how ANY investment may be claimed to carry "no risk"?

berwynson

Dude, I was being facetious.

Ah, so! Thank you for clarifying. I tend to take everything at face value, and leave little variance for "grey area".

berwynson

[Ted]

GDP growth is down to an annualized rate of just 1.5% for 2Q2012.

GDP in the EuroZone has been re-adjusted to a negative 0.2%.

The U.S. is still doing better than Europe and Europe's economic woes are dragging down the U.S. recovery.