The Great Bridgeport Collapse of 2012

[watcher]

Cub fans are a breed unto themselves.

Not really, watcher.  It's normal to have teeth.

Too bad the team plays like gummers.

[Robert Pauly]

My Bronx allegiance is older than some of your hair plugs.

BZZZZZZTTTTTTTT!!!!!!

Wrong guy.

If there's something I have quite a bit of, its hair my friend. Furthermore, you aren't old enough for the aforemnetioned to be true if in fact I DID sport plugs.

Can remember when Bob Will made the bigs.

[seebee]

If you think the Zambrano contract was spot on, you're just simply nuts. His signing was worse than Zito. At  least Zito won a Cy. Z wasn't even close to sniffing a Cy. Soriano got way too much money for way too long. Sure, he would have gotten similar money somewhere else, but then most other teams would also understand that signing him for that long would be detrimental, and to just LET someone else give him that much. Are the Cubs paying z 19 + million NEXT year?

Rios's year is not totally unexpected, but since you think Zambrano 's signing was spot on, it can't be explained to you. Gio a mistake? Perhaps, but I'd trade young pitching away in a heartbeat if the return is what I want. As a matter of fact, I'd trade Sale today in a heartbeat if I could get what I wanted for him. Young pitchers are a pain in the ass, and young "stud" pitchers are a dime a dozen. Most never pan out. I'm pretty sure we'd have seen Quintana in the bigs alongside Danks if Danks was healthy. My guess would be that his shoulder was an issue last year as well to account for some of his struggles. He just wasn't right last year. I said a "healthy" Danks, not last year's Danks.

As fer AJ - you're just jealous that the guy who deals the best roids in town in a Sox fan.

But really, he's just simply another example of a contract year jerk. Though I think he's done plenty in the past to warrant consideration for a new contract, he's been dogging it for a few year without a doubt. I wouldn't blame the brass for not matching what another team will offer him. I'd assume AJ wants to go back west for his twilight anyway. Hey, if the cubs didn't clean house, they'd have probably given him a new shiny 10 year 150 million dollar contract, right?

And is Detroit a better team on paper? Hell Yes. Never once did I think they weren't. I assumed they'd win the div before the season started. And just like everyone who follows baseball knows  - The Cubs threw in the towel before this season started, and they've already thrown in the towel for next year as well. Keep packing the stands for that. Line the pockets of the execs while they continually spit in your face. If the Cubs were not here, the Sox would probably start rivaling the Yankees in terms of having the funding to sign ppl at will. The northsiders who needed to throw money away to drink would come down to the Cell, and understand how superior the field is, and start packing the stadium and buying up booze. I think it would be a decent mix of ppl who need to be seen and drunk, and ppl who care about the game and the product on the field. And nobody would have to worry about concrete falling on their head since the execs don't even give a shit about the fans safety. They can just pay off any injuries out of pocket since the tards keep pouring in the ticket gate to see Darwin Barney or someone on the field while they hail down the old style guy.

P.s. Kosuke Fukudome. (that's Japanese for "Screw The Cubs.")

In all seriousness, I tihnk after next year, and they stop paying Soriano and Zambrano, Theo might do some good. Although, I haven't researched all of his handywork out east. I know Boston had some teams recently. I wonder if he ditched town while he could before the team fell apart. Oh look. The team fell apart. Crawford got how much? How old is he? How much is that Asian pitcher they paid just to TALK TO gettin out there? He still even pitching?

[Bonster]

If the Cubs were not here, the Sox would probably start rivaling the Yankees in terms of having the funding to sign ppl at will. The northsiders who needed to throw money away to drink would come down to the Cell, and understand how superior the field is, and start packing the stadium and buying up booze. I think it would be a decent mix of ppl who need to be seen and drunk, and ppl who care about the game and the product on the field.

Really??  Northsiders know all about that so-called superior field; they paid for it!  The only reason the stadium even exists is because Reinsdorf conned the taxpayers into funding a new stadium with threats to leave the city.   Therefore, only plausible one-team dream scenario is a city without its second team in town.   And if superior means your front row upper deck seats are farther from the field than your previous LAST row's upper deck seats, you can have it. 

[watcher]

If you think the Zambrano contract was spot on,

In all seriousness, I tihnk after next year, and they stop paying Soriano and Zambrano, Theo might do some good. Although, I haven't researched all of his handywork out east. I know Boston had some teams recently. I wonder if he ditched town while he could before the team fell apart. Oh look. The team fell apart. Crawford got how much? How old is he? How much is that Asian pitcher they paid just to TALK TO gettin out there? He still even pitching?

Not much to disagree with in your little rant. I too saw the Tigers as the cream of the division. Sox chances would have been better if they'd managed to hang on to Buerhle and his 200 innings, but not 4 years @ $58 million. I'm a big AJ fan. He's always had home-run power. This year his role was different and he adjusted. I think that was partly due to Ventura's arrival and the Dunn question mark. AJ handles pitchers extremely well, calls a great game, really knows the game/opposing players and basically enjoys playing. I'd love to see him stick around, but I'm not hopeful of that happening. Adding Youk was a huge boost at just the right time, but the rotation stumbled. (understatement) and the wheels came off. At the same time, Detroit got its shit together and started doing what they were built to do.

I'm a Sox fan. I don't care which color. Theo's run in Beantown was fun until he started believing his own hype.
The Dice-K experiment really disrupted what was a well-groomed and positioned pitching staff. Tito got hosed last season and Bobby V doesn't belong in a MLB dugout. I guess a couple of World Championships can do that to an organization (unless you're the MFYs and just go buy another superstar or 4)

Overall it's been another great baseball season. PLAYOFFS!!

[Bonster]

At the same time, Detroit got its shit together and started doing what they were built to do.

Detroit didn't do what it was built to do.  As Jackal said in another thread a couple weeks ago, they couldn't win that division if it was handed to them on a silver platter; it took a complete collapse of the sox.

[seebee]

...if superior means your front row upper deck seats are farther from the field than your previous LAST row's upper deck seats, you can have it.

I was actually thinking more along the lines of a soundsystem from this century instead of an old organ, music, fireworks, a scoreboard not maintained the same way a t-ball league is maintaned, a big screen with interesting things, perhaps some between innings entertainment, edible food, maybe a few "non obstructed view" seats (bwahahahahahahahaha-buy em up!!) and something interesting to show the kids besides girls barfing in the aisles, or counting the passed out guys in the row in front of you.  But hey, if your idea of a nice stadium is funeral music, drunks, and falling concrete, enjoy. And oh yeah, you should pay 50 bucks a pop for those seats in full sun behind some pole too. My 50 will get me on the field at 3rd base next to the dugout. Cubs tickets are that much simply because people will pay for it. A lot of ppl say the same thing Wrigley has charm, but it simply stinks. I usually go to the party once a year with free tickets, and free parking. My father was a Cub fan, he used to take us, and it's a fun day. The Cell absolutely rocks tho. So, I guess, I should say thank you to the northsiders because they paid for it all? Maybe more accurately would be, thank you, for staying drunk at that old hell hole while we rock out down south and enjoy decent food, and a team with a winning record.

[seebee]

At the same time, Detroit got its shit together and started doing what they were built to do.

Detroit didn't do what it was built to do.  As Jackal said in another thread a couple weeks ago, they couldn't win that division if it was handed to them on a silver platter; it took a complete collapse of the sox.

I know a couple of hard core Kitty fans who will say that DET doesn't deserve this division, but they really do have the talent to get somewhere. At this point, hot streaks can play a major factor. They are playing now how everyone expected them to play all year. If the Sox snuck this division, it would take almost a miracle for them to get anywhere (but it could happen.) When the kitties get in, if they play like they should, then they have a legit shot at making some noise. Verlander has the build to pitch every flippin day. That guy is still throwing 100mph darts in the ninth, and he WANTS to stay in the whole game. Fister is smart, and Scherzer looks like he is starting to realize his potential - he can be a monster on the bump as well. Miggy and Prince are damn near most of the O you need. My guess is that in the offseason, they are gonna grab a couple of cheap vets who can get on base at a decent clip, and make a serious push.

[whitesoxfan]

Maybe so...but in 40+ years of following the beloved Cubbies, I've never seen a Cub fan take a shower in center field, run onto the field and pummel a first base coach from behind, cause a riot which forces the cancellation of a game, or pay to see a midget and/or men in shorts play......among other things!

http://youtu.be/D9BwOAY1iXU

Enough said on that.

I realized a long, long time ago that Cubs fans are not worth arguing with. Very delusional, which is I guess an obvious reason they are Cubs fans to begin with.

I wish that I can meet Bartman and just say to him- "now you know what it's like to deal with Cubs fans" .

[tony la]

It now has been 7 years since they won the WS, lets not forget it took them 87 years to do that.   I was a Andy Frain usher at the old park and I have to tell you that in no way could Wrigley compare to the drunks we used to drag out of there in the alley behind the stadium.  On any given friday or saturday nite we were dragging them out before the first pitch was thrown.

I have been a Cub all my life.  Over the years I have come to realize that I do not dislike the team, or the stadium, or Reinsdorf.  It is the sox fan that is a pain in the ass.  They are some of the bigest crybabies I have ever seen.  Most of them would rather buy a Cubs suck jersey rather than a Sox jersey, I could never understand that. 

My favorite question to them all year has been if they were disappointed that the sox gave up Dick Allens number.  Not to my suprise, their nextquestion was"who has his number".  Or they did not say anything at all because they did not know.  That says it all to me about what kind of fan most of them are.  I was upset they gave away his number, and I am not even a sox fan.  One of the most amazing players they ever had, who had some of his best years on the south side.

They had a decent little team this year.  I enjoyed watching them, even going to a few games thanks to a local bank who game me tickets.  I took my daughter and we both had a hell of a time. 

As bad as their support  is, the fact is that the last couple of years they have been breaking attendance records......which is really sad.  They should be thanking us for giving them the few sell out crowds they had when the cubs came in.

[watcher]

It now has been 7 years since they won the WS, lets not forget it took them 87 years to do that.   I was a Andy Frain usher at the old park and I have to tell you that in no way could Wrigley compare to the drunks we used to drag out of there in the alley behind the stadium.  On any given friday or saturday nite we were dragging them out before the first pitch was thrown.

I have been a Cub all my life.  Over the years I have come to realize that I do not dislike the team, or the stadium, or Reinsdorf.  It is the sox fan that is a pain in the ass.  They are some of the bigest crybabies I have ever seen.  Most of them would rather buy a Cubs suck jersey rather than a Sox jersey, I could never understand that. 

My favorite question to them all year has been if they were disappointed that the sox gave up Dick Allens number.  Not to my suprise, their nextquestion was"who has his number".  Or they did not say anything at all because they did not know.  That says it all to me about what kind of fan most of them are.  I was upset they gave away his number, and I am not even a sox fan.  One of the most amazing players they ever had, who had some of his best years on the south side.

They had a decent little team this year.  I enjoyed watching them, even going to a few games thanks to a local bank who game me tickets.  I took my daughter and we both had a hell of a time. 

As bad as their support  is, the fact is that the last couple of years they have been breaking attendance records......which is really sad.  They should be thanking us for giving them the few sell out crowds they had when the cubs came in.

Did you usher at Wrigley? There's a big difference between daytime drunks and nighttime drunks.

Dick Allen had ONE of his best seasons at Comiskey. He followed that season with an "injury" plagued year that strangely aligned with his hatred of the DH and astroturf. Then the fade of `74 in which he walked away with 20 games left. Lock, stock and two smoking barrels. It was the 70s. Allen was entering his 30s. He had zero conditioning program. He was 100% natural talent who had no use for trainers.  10 years in Philly and the reserve clause made Richie Allen the person he was. Three years in Chicago with Chuck Tanner helped Dick Allen far more than it helped the White Sox. I put it in the "what coulda been" era of WSox lore. John Allyn was out of his league baseball team wise. But he knew the commodities market.

The south side 70s were driven by business decisions and sociology. Veeck/No Veeck the game changed. 81 home games, beer and baseball competing with WGN and the Cubs marketing departments in a deeply segregated city.

It's 2012 and the societal problems linger. U.S. Cellular Field and it's "neighborhood" symbolize Chicago's inability to embrace diversity. We're still driven by fear and perceptions.

[tony la]

It now has been 7 years since they won the WS, lets not forget it took them 87 years to do that.   I was a Andy Frain usher at the old park and I have to tell you that in no way could Wrigley compare to the drunks we used to drag out of there in the alley behind the stadium.  On any given friday or saturday nite we were dragging them out before the first pitch was thrown.

I have been a Cub all my life.  Over the years I have come to realize that I do not dislike the team, or the stadium, or Reinsdorf.  It is the sox fan that is a pain in the ass.  They are some of the bigest crybabies I have ever seen.  Most of them would rather buy a Cubs suck jersey rather than a Sox jersey, I could never understand that. 

My favorite question to them all year has been if they were disappointed that the sox gave up Dick Allens number.  Not to my suprise, their nextquestion was"who has his number".  Or they did not say anything at all because they did not know.  That says it all to me about what kind of fan most of them are.  I was upset they gave away his number, and I am not even a sox fan.  One of the most amazing players they ever had, who had some of his best years on the south side.

They had a decent little team this year.  I enjoyed watching them, even going to a few games thanks to a local bank who game me tickets.  I took my daughter and we both had a hell of a time. 

As bad as their support  is, the fact is that the last couple of years they have been breaking attendance records......which is really sad.  They should be thanking us for giving them the few sell out crowds they had when the cubs came in.

Did you usher at Wrigley? There's a big difference between daytime drunks and nighttime drunks.

Dick Allen had ONE of his best seasons at Comiskey. He followed that season with an "injury" plagued year that strangely aligned with his hatred of the DH and astroturf. Then the fade of `74 in which he walked away with 20 games left. Lock, stock and two smoking barrels. It was the 70s. Allen was entering his 30s. He had zero conditioning program. He was 100% natural talent who had no use for trainers.  10 years in Philly and the reserve clause made Richie Allen the person he was. Three years in Chicago with Chuck Tanner helped Dick Allen far more than it helped the White Sox. I put it in the "what coulda been" era of WSox lore. John Allyn was out of his league baseball team wise. But he knew the commodities market.

The south side 70s were driven by business decisions and sociology. Veeck/No Veeck the game changed. 81 home games, beer and baseball competing with WGN and the Cubs marketing departments in a deeply segregated city.

It's 2012 and the societal problems linger. U.S. Cellular Field and it's "neighborhood" symbolize Chicago's inability to embrace diversity. We're still driven by fear and perceptions.

Your post makes my point exactly.   You my friend are the typical Sox fan with the typical belly aching.  Glad to know you are so knowledgabe on drunks.  I did work both day and night games at Comiskey.  We put them in the same alley where they actually laid there until they woke up.  I did work both ball parks.  I am not going to say Wrigley did not have drunks, but it was no comparison to the amount of drunks we had at Comiskey.

I must say though you do not see those kind of drunks at the Cell.  My opinion is that your  drunk of the 70's can't afford a ticket like they used to.  In fact the cost of a ticket is keeping the real fan away from both parks.  I would love to see how many people at the game got a free ticket from corporate America. 

Everything you say about Dick Allen may be true.  But he was a hell of an exciting player when he came to bat.  His short love affair with sox fans should not be forgotten.   I am not even a sox fan and I remember the excitement in and out of the park when he came to bat.

The excuses for non support are amazing.  1.  They hate Reinsdorf because of the strike.  2.  Traffic is too bad around the park.  3. They are not a good team.....I am not going to support them until ownership spends more money on free agents.  4.  The seats are to steep.  5.  The stadium looks like a spaceship, not a ball park.  6.  I don't like the color of the seats. 7.  The neighborhood is not safe.....all of these issues Reinsdorf addressed for the crybabies.  Reinsdorf is a phenominal owner.  Until now I wished he was owner or the Cubs.  The complaints go on and on of why they do not support their team.  I think the real issue is the price of a ticket.  You will never hear them say thickets are too high....I will say it for both teams.  The family man has not been able to bring his family to a game for a long time.

[watcher]

Your post makes my point exactly.   You my friend are the typical Sox fan with the typical belly aching.  Glad to know you are so knowledgabe on drunks.  I did work both day and night games at Comiskey.  We put them in the same alley where they actually laid there until they woke up.  I did work both ball parks.  I am not going to say Wrigley did not have drunks, but it was no comparison to the amount of drunks we had at Comiskey.

I must say though you do not see those kind of drunks at the Cell.  My opinion is that your  drunk of the 70's can't afford a ticket like they used to.  In fact the cost of a ticket is keeping the real fan away from both parks.  I would love to see how many people at the game got a free ticket from corporate America. 

Everything you say about Dick Allen may be true.  But he was a hell of an exciting player when he came to bat.  His short love affair with sox fans should not be forgotten.   I am not even a sox fan and I remember the excitement in and out of the park when he came to bat.

The excuses for non support are amazing.  1.  They hate Reinsdorf because of the strike.  2.  Traffic is too bad around the park.  3. They are not a good team.....I am not going to support them until ownership spends more money on free agents.  4.  The seats are to steep.  5.  The stadium looks like a spaceship, not a ball park.  6.  I don't like the color of the seats. 7.  The neighborhood is not safe.....all of these issues Reinsdorf addressed for the crybabies.  Reinsdorf is a phenominal owner.  Until now I wished he was owner or the Cubs.  The complaints go on and on of why they do not support their team.  I think the real issue is the price of a ticket.  You will never hear them say thickets are too high....I will say it for both teams.  The family man has not been able to bring his family to a game for a long time.

You make no point. At least not a coherent one and certainly not one that doesn't apply almost universally in professional sports. You speak of fan loyalty and somehow equate that with attendance. Not surprising for someone who makes a living off the percentages. Everybody attends or doesn't for different reasons. In case you didn't notice, there is a big difference in disposable incomes in our present economy. Affordability is relative.

Competition for the family man's dollar, allegiance and attention is a 24/7/365 all-encompassing effort. You do yourself no favors by insulting them and belittling their reasoning. They don't owe you an explanation. You wouldn't like or accept it anyway.

The 2013 season has already started for 2/3rds of MLB. The Sox will sell out Soxfest in January.
Until then, Da Bears take over.

[The Jackal]

Well enough of the attendance nonsense. The Sox don't sell out simply because they have a much smaller fan base than the Cubs. SIMPLE.

Now, as far as the collapse is concerned, ponder the following:

On Septmeber 19th Bridgeport was +3 with just a little over two weeks left in the saeson.

By then end of the month, TWELVE DAYS later, they found themselves -3....having gone a mind boggling 2-10 in the interim. If THAT isn't the greatest down the stretch collapse in Chicago baseball history, I don't know what is. To put this in proper perspective, if the Black Sox would have simply played .500 ball in that stretch, they would still be in first place, with one game left to play!!!

Some further food for thought:

The Black Sox would be in FOURTH PLACE in both of the other AL divisions with their present record.

They would be in THIRD PLACE in all three NL divisions with their present record.

Bridgeport has the EIGHTH best record in the AL.....in other words, they're in the BOTTOM HALF of the 14 team AL.

They also are only one of two teams with the good fortune to play 54 games (a THIRD of their schedule), against the likes of KC, Minnesota and Cleveland....the other being Detroit, LOL!!!! And they still couldn't muster more than 84-85 wins.

[Bonster]

Maybe so...but in 40+ years of following the beloved Cubbies, I've never seen a Cub fan take a shower in center field, run onto the field and pummel a first base coach from behind, cause a riot which forces the cancellation of a game, or pay to see a midget and/or men in shorts play......among other things!

http://youtu.be/D9BwOAY1iXU

Enough said on that.

No, not enough said on that.  Context is important.  The jackass was celebrating after a win.  People running on fields is NOTHING new all around sports. 
Attacking umpires, coaches, showering, are not.

[Bonster]

I realized a long, long time ago that Cubs fans are not worth arguing with. Very delusional, which is I guess an obvious reason they are Cubs fans to begin with.

I wish that I can meet Bartman and just say to him- "now you know what it's like to deal with Cubs fans" .

Do you have sox fans or cubs fans working at your place?

[whitesoxfan]

No, not enough said on that.  Context is important.  The jackass was celebrating after a win.  People running on fields is NOTHING new all around sports. 
Attacking umpires, coaches, showering, are not.

Actually, I believe that fan was running after Bobby Howry, the pitcher for the team he is supposed to be rooting for.

Do you have sox fans or cubs fans working at your place?

I have both.

Well enough of the attendance nonsense. The Sox don't sell out simply because they have a much smaller fan base than the Cubs. SIMPLE.
(/quote)

Correct, it is nonsense.

Now, as far as the collapse is concerned, ponder the following:

On Septmeber 19th Bridgeport was +3 with just a little over two weeks left in the saeson.

By then end of the month, TWELVE DAYS later, they found themselves -3....having gone a mind boggling 2-10 in the interim. If THAT isn't the greatest down the stretch collapse in Chicago baseball history, I don't know what is. To put this in proper perspective, if the Black Sox would have simply played .500 ball in that stretch, they would still be in first place, with one game left to play!!!

Very true. Huge collapse.
My personal perspective is that we over achieved in the first half. Konerko in the cleanup spot with only 73 rbi and 65 runs is not going to get the job done. He was huge at the beginning of the year but faded to a .299 avg.

I am still happy. They put a team on the field once again that competed, which is what they have done since 1990 for the most part. They are 190+ games over 500 in that span with only 6 of those seasons with a record under 500 ( Cubs  minus 130+ games under 500 in that span, 15 seasons under 500.) Do I want them to win the world Series every year? Of course but we all know that isn't going to happen so I am more then happy that they put a team that competes for the division almost every year.

Some further food for thought:

The Black Sox would be in FOURTH PLACE in both of the other AL divisions with their present record.

They would be in THIRD PLACE in all three NL divisions with their present record.

Bridgeport has the EIGHTH best record in the AL.....in other words, they're in the BOTTOM HALF of the 14 team AL.

They also are only one of two teams with the good fortune to play 54 games (a THIRD of their schedule), against the likes of KC, Minnesota and Cleveland....the other being Detroit, LOL!!!! And they still couldn't muster more than 84-85 wins.

Those are all bullshit stats and you know it. The Cards won the World Series twice with the worst divisional record.

By the way, is the worst division in baseball decided by the best team in the divisions record or the worst team in the divisions record. If it is the latter, we all know what the worst division in baseball is.

Too bad we couldn't have played the Cubs 18 times like we have to play our other division teams, they had a worse record then anyone in our division and we would have gone 12-6, but we didn't.

Every team is built to compete in their own division. Unless you just don't plan on competing, ahem

[The Jackal]

Are you serious now or do you suffer from dementia? You take the EXCEPTION (Cardinals) and try to pass it off as the rule? Over a 162 game season, chances are great that the best team is one with the best overall record. Does that team always win the WS? No. Nonetheless, I highly doubt you're going to find many teams with the 15th best overall record in baseball winning the world series.

What's BS about the stats? Don't the Black sox play KC, Minny and Cleveland for a THIRD of their games?

The strength of your division is determined from top to bottom, not looking SOLELY at the top OR bottom. The AL Central is the only division with only two teams above .500. Furthermore, there is no other division with three teams as bad as KC, Cleveland and Minnesota....or one where 60 percent of the division is utter crap.

Seriously, THINK before you post.

[The Jackal]

And NO, you don't necessarily build your team according to your division, especially if your goal is the WS. Your division can change from year to year and if you're stuck with long term commitments to certain players, then the character of your team will not be able to change/adapt accordingly.

You try to build a team that can get the most wins possible over a 162 game schedule.

Within that same team you also try to build a side that can win one five and two seven game playoff series. THAT is the blueprint to winning a WS.

The point is that the Black Sox benefit greatly from playing, for the most part, in a two team division year after year. And that in no part has to do with the unbalanced nature of the schedule.

The fact of the matter is teams like Tampa and LA play a MUCH more difficult 162 game schedule than Bridgeport. BOTH finished THIRD and further back in their respective divisions than the Black Sox. BOTH are flat out better teams than the Black Sox. Yet if you look at division standings, the Sox came closer to getting into the playoffs than either the Rays or Angels, due SOLELY to the divisional format in baseball.

[The Jackal]

Need more proof?

In the aforementioned tragic dirty dozen (game) stretch, Bridgeport played the Angels and Rays SEVEN times.....and went 1-6....when the chips were down and all the money on the line!