asbestos/popcorm ceilings

[pioneer]

Does anyone on this board have popcorn ceilings in their house?

I just read an article on MSN about popcorn ceilings and finally realized what they were called and now I have another reason to not like them.

Basically, the article states that they may contain asbestos.

Has anyone here ever dealt with this problem?

If so, did you leave them alone or remove them?

I am now concerned with this and would like to get someone to test to see if my popcorn celings contains asbestos.

Can anyone recommend someone who is trained/certified to deal with asbestos and to test to see if asbestos is contained in my ceilings?

Any help, comments, or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[markberwyn]

Does anyone on this board have popcorn ceilings in their house?

I just read an article on MSN about popcorn ceilings and finally realized what they were called and now I have another reason to not like them.

Basically, the article states that they may contain asbestos.

Has anyone here ever dealt with this problem?

If so, did you leave them alone or remove them?

I am now concerned with this and would like to get someone to test to see if my popcorn celings contains asbestos.

Can anyone recommend someone who is trained/certified to deal with asbestos and to test to see if asbestos is contained in my ceilings?

Any help, comments, or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Link, please? I have a popcorn ceiling in my home office. When I moved in I was told by various people who knew their way around homes (but not licensed, bonded contractors) that scraping off a popcorn ceiling was more trouble than it's worth. But now that they might contain asbestos, maybe there's time for a revise on that. I don't want to suffer from brain damage and wind up havbing to starkst dfsop;;sdfdf*((....

[OakParkSpartan]

You don't need to worry about brain damage, just lung damage.  T-Stan can chime in on this topic. 

I thought most popcorn ceilings just had styrofoam pellets in them.

Cheers,
Brian

[pioneer]

Here is the link:

http://realestate.msn.com/Improve/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=273335&GT1=7929

Also, the article suggests to get a sample yourself, but the epa site says to have a pro do it?

Anyways, now I have to know and wanted to know if anyone has ever used an asbestos testing lab or asbestos removal company.

The article suggests to have the testing company not be related in any way to an asbestos removal company, which obviously would be interested in "finding" asbestos in your house.

I know have another reason to move out...

[T-Stan RPCV]

Finally.  A topic I know a little about and don't need to bullshit my way through.

"popcorn" ceiling would be considered suspect for containing asbestos.  The only way to know for sure is to test it.  If it is your own private residence Illinois does not require that samples be collected by a licensed expert.

I would recommend collecting the samples yourself and submitting to a lab to save costs.

If you are not comfortable doing it yourself it could run you a few hundred dollars.   The firm I work with http://www.boelter-yates.com has a group of asbestos experts.  I do not personally do asbestos but a good contact would be Matt Meyer (847)685-9257.  Mention that you are from Berwyn (Matt is a former Berwynite) and that you know Rob and he will take care of you.   

If you decide to test yourself:

- For a material to be considered negative for asbestos the analysis needs to include at least 3 samples of the same material collected from different areas.  This is due to possible variability in asbestos levels when it was manufactured or mixed during construction.  A positive result occurs if the material contains >1% asbestos.  If all 3 samples are negative then the material is negative.  If one sample is positive then the material is positive.

- Collect the sample by coring/scraping the material and sealing it in a zip lock bag then send it to the lab.  Each sample must be sealed in its own bag.  The sample should include full depth of the material from the visible surface to the material above that it has been applied to. 

A local asbestos lab that is accredited and  does a good job:

JMS Environmental
816 Burr Oak Drive Westmont, IL 60559
Phone: 630-655-8500
Toll free: 800-655-8503
Fax: 630-655-8724

Hope this helps.

[pioneer]

Finally.  A topic I know a little about and don't need to bullshit my way through.

"popcorn" ceiling would be considered suspect for containing asbestos.  The only way to know for sure is to test it.  If it is your own private residence Illinois does not require that samples be collected by a licensed expert.

I would recommend collecting the samples yourself and submitting to a lab to save costs.

If you are not comfortable doing it yourself it could run you a few hundred dollars.   The firm I work with http://www.boelter-yates.com has a group of asbestos experts.  I do not personally do asbestos but a good contact would be Matt Meyer (847)685-9257.  Mention that you are from Berwyn (Matt is a former Berwynite) and that you know Rob and he will take care of you.   

If you decide to test yourself:

- For a material to be considered negative for asbestos the analysis needs to include at least 3 samples of the same material collected from different areas.  This is due to possible variability in asbestos levels when it was manufactured or mixed during construction.  A positive result occurs if the material contains >1% asbestos.  If all 3 samples are negative then the material is negative.  If one sample is positive then the material is positive.

- Collect the sample by coring/scraping the material and sealing it in a zip lock bag then send it to the lab.  Each sample must be sealed in its own bag.  The sample should include full depth of the material from the visible surface to the material above that it has been applied to. 

A local asbestos lab that is accredited and  does a good job:

JMS Environmental
816 Burr Oak Drive Westmont, IL 60559
Phone: 630-655-8500
Toll free: 800-655-8503
Fax: 630-655-8724

Hope this helps.

Thanks, T-Stan RPCV!

This is the kind of info I need.

I thought that this kind of stuff would have been pointed out by the home inspector when I purchased my home. 

This would have been a deal breaker!

I can only blame myself for not knowing about this stuff.

Thanks again for the info.

[Bru67]

Not trying to make light of this but the asbestos thing is overrated from all I've heard.  We as a society have really been brainwashed on this one.  I went into my crawl space in my attic shortly after buying my bungalow and saw some ancient USG Red Top insulation.  I immediately began experiencing difficulty breathing and, after staggering out of the crawl space, thought I was pretty much a done deal.  As Kaput as the Cermak Plaza Mural would have been in 1961 Berwyn. 

I started to wonder how long I had.  A week?  A month?  A long horrible illness where I'd waste away to nothing?  I was hoping it would be quick.  Then I called one of these environmental outfits (I forget which, it was in Forest Park I think) and the guy told me he'd be happy to test it but not to worry.  So long as you're not disturbing it and kicking up dust, it poses no threat, and even then it's not that big of a deal. 

Those who suffered Asbestositis typically worked directly around the product (mining, manufacturing or ship building) for very long periods of time.  And more often than not, they were heavy tobacco users to boot.  As to removal, he suggested that I may be wise to avoid paying the $50k or whatever it would cost and instead just remove it myself by being careful to pick up large pieces and disturb it as little as possible.  I also removed tiles in my basement and kitchen later which may have had asbestos in them.  I just kept the floor wet and took up large pieces. 

Unlike insulation rolls or floor tiles, there's no way to take down a popcorn ceiling without creating a lot of dust and small particles.  Personally, I'd just leave the ceiling alone just to be safe, but I wouldn't worry too much about your impending doom. 

[dukesdad]

A dealbreaker? Much ado about nothing. Like most things, if you leave it alone it won't bother you. Unless it's falling down, forget about it.

[T-Stan RPCV]

I agree with both Bru & Duke's dad.

If the asbestos is "non-friable" there is little to no risk of exposure or health effects.  In other words it needs to be airborne for any risk.  If it is good condition (free of water damage, not crumbling) it is usually best to just leave it in place.  If it is removed the demolition is what stirs things up and causes exposure, especially to the contractor performing the work.

Also, if the asbestos is in good condition it should not be a "deal breaker" when buying an older home.  I think trying to find an older home that is completely free of asbestos would be very difficult and the resulting stress would be more of a risk than the actual asbestos.

There are some very serious health concerns associated with asbestos but they are usually related to long term chronic exposure.  However, there are some attorneys that would have you believe otherwise.

[markberwyn]

Thanks for the advice/explanations, folks. The odd thing as far as my house goes is that the popcorn ceiling is only in one room--a second-floor bedroom converted to an office--which leads me to believe it was installed relatively recently and after the '78 ban. Probably the work of the previous owners, who had all sorts of f'd-up "beautification" ideas when it came to this place, including but not limited to using the basement walls as a canvas for grafitti art.

[Bonster]

If the asbestos is "non-friable" there is little to no risk of exposure or health effects.  In other words it needs to be airborne for any risk.  If it is good condition (free of water damage, not crumbling) it is usually best to just leave it in place.  If it is removed the demolition is what stirs things up and causes exposure, especially to the contractor performing the work.

Also, if the asbestos is in good condition it should not be a "deal breaker" when buying an older home.  I think trying to find an older home that is completely free of asbestos would be very difficult and the resulting stress would be more of a risk than the actual asbestos.

Interesting thread...I had asbestos issues in my home early on...I believe the old gravity air system (octopus) with the asbestos-insulated ductwork was a deal breaker for many folks.  The place was still for sale at a lower price long after our first look at it.  Removal of the old system, due to the requirement of licensed asbestos removers, was quoted as being close to half the price of a new central air system itself.  People simply didn't trust the safety of the old unit for the price being asked.  (tested OK, proved unsafe upon dismemberment)