Cigars and Stripes?

[Ted]

You should read the posts on BCK.  One of the defenders of the owner is what I would describe as a "progressive" type and one of the people most critical of the owner is a life-long Berwyn resident who most would describe as a right wing conservative.

So, your argument doesn't hold water.  In fact, I see just the opposite.  People with those "old school Berwynite" attitudes are the ones most vociferous in criticizing the owners while newer Berwynites with progressive attitudes who patronize the bar are the ones defending the owner.

  As for comments on the C&S Facebook page, they don't represent Berwyn as a community.  They represent the patrons of the bar, not Berwyn as a whole.

[markberwyn]

You should read the posts on BCK.  One of the defenders of the owner is what I would describe as a "progressive" type and one of the people most critical of the owner is a life-long Berwyn resident who most would describe as a right wing conservative.

So, your argument doesn't hold water.  In fact, I see just the opposite.  People with those "old school Berwynite" attitudes are the ones most vociferous in criticizing the owners while newer Berwynites with progressive attitudes who patronize the bar are the ones defending the owner.

  As for comments on the C&S Facebook page, they don't represent Berwyn as a community.  They represent the patrons of the bar, not Berwyn as a whole.

I can't read the BCK posts because I'm not a member, but if you see what you see, then I stand corrected. No idea how defending this behavior counts as "progressive," though.

Anyhow, the real proof that a "new Berwyn" sensibility is prevailing is if the owner delivers an apology and if the police forces him to take down the mirror.

[Ted]

... No idea how defending this behavior counts as "progressive," though.

  I didn't say that defending the behavior is "progressive".  I said the woman defending the owner was a progressive type.

  It seems like the defenders are mostly people who know the owner. And, we can't really know whether the people posting on the C&S site are Berwynites.  Those comments could be coming from anywhere in the world.

[menace2society]

Anyone else liken the personality of the owner to Drew Peterson?  Very eerie....

[Toria]

I think the cops have not found a way to get him on anything.  They went there and could not find a reason to make him remove it.  I think they would if they could.  Perhaps they are conferring in the city on how to do it.  Given the fact that Berwyn inspectors are all over every two flat owner and bungalow owner for any little infraction against city code, how can the City of Berwyn allow this?  Methinks they just have not found something in the code to gig him on.

[markberwyn]

... No idea how defending this behavior counts as "progressive," though.

  I didn't say that defending the behavior is "progressive".  I said the woman defending the owner was a progressive type.

Defending a man who is gleefully giving people the opportunity to watch women who enter a restroom with a reasonable expectation of privacy is pretty much the opposite of progressive thought. What on earth makes this person so "progressive"?

[markberwyn]

I think the cops have not found a way to get him on anything.  They went there and could not find a reason to make him remove it.  I think they would if they could.  Perhaps they are conferring in the city on how to do it.  Given the fact that Berwyn inspectors are all over every two flat owner and bungalow owner for any little infraction against city code, how can the City of Berwyn allow this?  Methinks they just have not found something in the code to gig him on.

People have a reasonable expectation of privacy when they enter a restroom. They only thing stopping Berwyn from making the owner take that mirror down is the fact that the mirror is in Berwyn.

[Ted]

Defending a man who is gleefully giving people the opportunity to watch women who enter a restroom with a reasonable expectation of privacy is pretty much the opposite of progressive thought. What on earth makes this person so "progressive"?

  I said she was a "progressive type".  I didn't say she was "progressive".

She is a vegan, works in the arts and generally has liberal political views.  That is why I characterized her as a "progressive type".

I also wouldn't characterize her defense as "gleeful".  She apparently knows the owner, thinks the owner is quirky and that this is part of his quirkiness and thinks it's no big deal.

  I am continued to be surprised at how many women are defending the owner.

  I don't think this issue is breaking conservative versus liberal, as you seem to think it should.  Lots of people who are conservative are criticizing the owner while many people who are young, hip and liberal are saying it's no big deal and there are worse things in the world.

[Ted]

  Interview with the comedian (Tamale Rocks) that posted this on the internet:

http://www.podcastgarden.com/episode/tamale-rocks-interview-with-steve-touhy-tony-carr_46350

[markberwyn]

Defending a man who is gleefully giving people the opportunity to watch women who enter a restroom with a reasonable expectation of privacy is pretty much the opposite of progressive thought. What on earth makes this person so "progressive"?

  I said she was a "progressive type".  I didn't say she was "progressive".

A distinction without a difference. C'mon, Ted.

  I don't think this issue is breaking conservative versus liberal, as you seem to think it should. 

That's not how I'm thinking about it; this is more about civic sensibility than it is politics. Berwyn is a go-along-to-get-along kind of place when it comes to power---it's why nothing happens when a school superintendent uses public funds to Christianize staff, or when Sokol Tabor pretends it never had anything to do with a man accused of having child porn. Same thing here: The Berwyn police has endorsed a business that has a two-way mirror in its women's restroom. It may be that there are split opinions about how much this business owner ought to be empowered to humiliate women. But we all know that this is Berwyn we're talking about, and that the end result will be a man who's still free to use his business to humiliate women.

[markberwyn]

A few glimpses into the owner's mind:

https://twitter.com/RonnieLottz/status/305880323126878209

https://twitter.com/RonnieLottz/status/303335437097914370

https://twitter.com/RonnieLottz/status/191306557575798784

Why would any woman step foot inside this business now?

[Suzy Q]

Wow!  Why would anybody defend this jerk?  Obviously a total disrespect towards women.  We, as women, have worked too hard to allow someone like this to say what he says and to do what he does.   Not cool at all.  It really makes me angry that people would find this as acceptable behavior.  Come on, Berwyn.  Where are your values?  Do better!

[berwyn senator]

SICK!!!!!

[Ted]

Wow!  Why would anybody defend this jerk?  Obviously a total disrespect towards women.  We, as women, have worked too hard to allow someone like this to say what he says and to do what he does.   Not cool at all.  It really makes me angry that people would find this as acceptable behavior.  Come on, Berwyn.  Where are your values?  Do better!

Well, Suzy, a lot of Berwynites are defending the owner.  This was posted in the last few hours on Facebook and has already received 36 LIKEs and a lot of people agreeing with the post:

So after all the drama about the mirror in Cigars and Stripes, I posted a 5 star review on their FB page. I enjoy it there. I just found it amazing how blown up it got via the media. Thought that atleast showing my support might help in some small way to shift negativity.
Some ass clown just had an argument with me on my review, however has never even been there. SMH! So if you enjoy Cigars & Stripes I recommend writing your own review on their FB page & Yelp.

[Ted]

  I said she was a "progressive type".  I didn't say she was "progressive".

A distinction without a difference. C'mon, Ted.

No, there is a distinction - "progressive" is a political philosophy and "progressive type"  is a type of new age, artsy, hip kind of lifestyle.

[markberwyn]

Wow!  Why would anybody defend this jerk?  Obviously a total disrespect towards women.  We, as women, have worked too hard to allow someone like this to say what he says and to do what he does.   Not cool at all.  It really makes me angry that people would find this as acceptable behavior.  Come on, Berwyn.  Where are your values?  Do better!

Well, Suzy, a lot of Berwynites are defending the owner.  This was posted in the last few hours on Facebook and has already received 36 LIKEs and a lot of people agreeing with the post:

So after all the drama about the mirror in Cigars and Stripes, I posted a 5 star review on their FB page. I enjoy it there. I just found it amazing how blown up it got via the media. Thought that atleast showing my support might help in some small way to shift negativity.
Some ass clown just had an argument with me on my review, however has never even been there. SMH! So if you enjoy Cigars & Stripes I recommend writing your own review on their FB page & Yelp.

Why do I have to go to this place to see it for myself? Will it magically become less vile and misogynistic if I see it with my own eyes? I don't get this argument, and I see people making it a lot.

[berwyn senator]

I can remember a few years back when bars in Berwyn had fashion shows,young girls in skimpy under wear parading around the bar???

[Ted]

I can remember a few years back when bars in Berwyn had fashion shows,young girls in skimpy under wear parading around the bar???

  Yes, Senator, I remember that, although they called it a "fashion show"... LOL.

  They're opening up a new restaurant at that place - it's going to be called George's.

[Ted]

Why do I have to go to this place to see it for myself? Will it magically become less vile and misogynistic if I see it with my own eyes? I don't get this argument, and I see people making it a lot.

I don't get it either, Mark.  It almost seems like a bunker mentality at this point.  People who continue to criticize the owner are now being berated and demeaned by the defenders.  It's getting ugly.

  Again, the post above was from  a young woman.  That's what I just don't get.  Maybe I just don't understand the way the Millenial brain works.

[Ted]

  Interesting story about this from the Windy City Times.  The woman (Tamale Rocks) who found the 2-way mirror was one of WCT's "30 under 30" in 2004.

http://www.windycitymediagroup.com/lgbt/Tamale-Rocks-exposes-2-way-mirror-in-club-restroom/51297.html