Cigars and Stripes?

[markberwyn]

Carry on.

This should be fun.

Has the deadline passed? Are you now free to assume things?

[Ronnie Lottz]

Imagine that, believing something you've read online. The difference is seeing is believing and videos don't lie. Soon the facts will be told and then the people will see.

[The Jackal]

Still waiting Mark...

[markberwyn]

Jackal's mad. He'll say he isn't. But he is. And for what? For the sake of defending Ronnie Lottz's behavior?

[The Jackal]

Mark? Oh Mark? Hey Maaaark...Yoo Hoo, this way...

The two questions Mark...

Just two answers...

Thank you!

[markberwyn]

Not sure why you keep demanding answers to questions I've already answered. You're just going to have to be disappointed in me.

[berwyn senator]

Can't someone come up with a more sensible topic?

[markberwyn]

Can't someone come up with a more sensible topic?

I think that so long at the mirror stays up it'll be a topic of discussion, but I do agree that Jackal needs to dial it down a notch.

As I've said repeatedly, I don't think the city or the police department can or should be sued for anything. But I appreciate that the city has been proactive in looking into an ordinance. And while Ronnie Lottz hasn't applied for any special dispensation from the council since the undisclosed two-way mirror was discovered (and I never said he had), I think any future requests he makes ought to be rejected. If Berwyn is so very eager to show that it's a grown-up city that's put its boorishness in the past, that would be place to do it.

As for the police, as I've said, I think it squandered an opportunity to send an important message to the public. After a couple of officers gave the place a quick once-over (scheduled? local media had footage of cops on the premises, and BPD was only there for an hour), the police chief said he understood why people would find the mirror troubling, but his department's actions provide little evidence of concern. I do think the police should've made their investigation last a day, shutting the place down, both to prevent Lottz from making the police visit into the media circus that he did, and to show the city it took the comedian's video seriously. There was an excellent opportunity for the BPD to deliver a stronger communication about sexual harassment and abuse; as it stands, I think the police gave women the impression that their concerns aren't a very high priority.

Again, all points I've made before.

[The Jackal]

As I've said repeatedly, I don't think the city or the police department can or should be sued for anything. But I appreciate that the city has been proactive in looking into an ordinance. And while Ronnie Lottz hasn't applied for any special dispensation from the council since the undisclosed two-way mirror was discovered (and I never said he had), I think any future requests he makes ought to be rejected. If Berwyn is so very eager to show that it's a grown-up city that's put its boorishness in the past, that would be place to do it.

Sued?

Who said anything about the city or PD being sued?

The issue isn't if the city or pd is legally liable for their action(s)/inaction and/or the act(s) of Mr. Lottz, for they are certainly NOT.

The issue is whether or not they acted appropriately.

So far, all I have from you is that you're happy a proposed ordinance has been placed on the table by Berwyn, which I can only conclude means you're also satisfied with the City's stance on the issue....especially given that youve come to realize no ordinance or licensing regulation was violated. Nor have any city funds or permits subsequently been granted to Lottz.

But.....that seems at odds with the verbal pasting you have given the City in your previous 15 pages of unfiltered rant. On the one hand you blast the city (for only God knows what), and on the other you applaud them for the proposed ordinance.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt in thinking that you're A OK with the City as it relates to this issue. I just hope that's because you sincerely realize the City has no fault in this scenario and not because you've simultaneously realized that criticizing the City would also be throwing Marge Paul under the bus.  I'm not sayin, I'm just sayin.

[The Jackal]

As for the police, as I've said, I think it squandered an opportunity to send an important message to the public. After a couple of officers gave the place a quick once-over (scheduled? local media had footage of cops on the premises, and BPD was only there for an hour), the police chief said he understood why people would find the mirror troubling, but his department's actions provide little evidence of concern. I do think the police should've made their investigation last a day, shutting the place down, both to prevent Lottz from making the police visit into the media circus that he did, and to show the city it took the comedian's video seriously. There was an excellent opportunity for the BPD to deliver a stronger communication about sexual harassment and abuse; as it stands, I think the police gave women the impression that their concerns aren't a very high

Really?

Did you seriously think about what you wrote before pushing the send button, or did you simply get yourself worked up in an anti Lottz frenzy and said " the hell with it"?

You wanted the PD to shut C/S down for a day?

On what legal basis?

With what legal justification?

And what rock would you look to crawl under when Lottz would file the obvious lawsuit afterwards?

Here's a hint....there is ZERO evidence a crime was committed....and it didn't take a full hour to conclude that.

The Berwyn PD is in the business of investigating and helping prosecute criminal offenses.

They're not in the business of making public service announcements regarding misogyny, ignorance and/or stupidity. Nor should they be.

Sexual harassment? Abuse?

What evidence did the PF have that any of these things occurred at the time they conducted their investigation?

Seriously man, take a step back and breathe!

[markberwyn]

Do you need a hug? Who hurt you?

[markberwyn]

I'm not sure what's worse---that C&S cultivates a clientele that would say things like this to a woman, or that the place didn't delete the comment.

This is the culture that Ronnie Lottz is actively creating in Berwyn.

[markberwyn]

Given the way the BPD responded, I think it would've been better if the police didn't bother going to the place at all.

[The Jackal]

Given the way the BPD responded, I think it would've been better if the police didn't bother going to the place at all.

What else did you expect them to do?

[markberwyn]

I mean, that visit from the police will only harm Cigars & Stripes' chances of being a repeat finalist for that award the BDC gives to businesses that improve Berwyn's reputation.

[The Jackal]

Again, I ask you....what did you expect the Berwyn PD to do?

Were you expecting the Berwyn PD to engage in unlawful conduct (shut C&S down) simply so you could extract your pound of flesh?

Fwiw, there may be a pound of flesh to extract...but it's not via the Berwyn PD/City of Berwyn, nor is it FROM the City of Berwyn and/or "old time Berwynites".

[berwyn senator]

Who cares?

[markberwyn]

Again, I ask you....what did you expect the Berwyn PD to do?

Were you expecting the Berwyn PD to engage in unlawful conduct (shut C&S down) simply so you could extract your pound of flesh?

Fwiw, there may be a pound of flesh to extract...but it's not via the Berwyn PD/City of Berwyn, nor is it FROM the City of Berwyn and/or "old time Berwynites".

OK.

[The Jackal]

You got it.

You finally got it...

[The Jackal]

It took only 10 full pages of back and forth before you finally came to the realization that your ire should not be directed at the City of Berwyn, Berwyn PD, old time Berwynites, or anyone/anything else outside of RONNIE LOTTZ.

Have at it.....