Berwyn,Cicero Schools Years Ago

[berwyn senator]

Schools were so different years ago,children respected teachers.There was no union bullshit teachers ran their class rooms always professionally dressed, they ruled! I cannot ever remember hearing a swear word until entering high school,and to or in front of a teacher.If your parents were called or a note sent home you were in deep shit especially when your father came home,the big issue here was mom was always home! Most children took school very serious,did we fool around sure not like today.My parents had some of the same teachers,deans and principles as we did making things interesting because they new each other. Today deans and principles are changed like I change my shorts,politics are too dominating in the school systems,good teachers are not allowed to teach,bad ones have a job.Smart children will always do well under any circumstances,the others are a concern.Lastly I cannot remember any of the girls getting pregnant,maybe we were smarted then the children today,or feared our parents?

[markberwyn]

Those times the girls you went to school with disappeared for a while? And nobody knew exactly what had happened? Maybe they moved and went to live with an aunt for a while? Well, senator, guess what?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10863126

[berwyn senator]

I must have been very naive,it took me a long time to figure that out.I don't remember the numbers being close to what they are today.Hell they have day care centers at the high schools,the first time I saw them with fencing out side for the children I really could not believe the young girls with babies.I now hear some are as young a 13 are having babies,then we wonder why we have gangs. Girls come to school pregnant and are proud of it,don't they also have couseling for these girls. Where to get the freebees!!!!!!!! During our time in high school the family was ashamed and took care of the child,no freebees!!!!!!!

[markberwyn]

Tell me more about these pregnant girls who go to school and are proud of their pregnancies, and how these pregnancies lead to gang activity.

[berwyn senator]

I would say the girls brag about doing gang members and getting pregnant.Children raised by single parents or aging grand parents.No father image.

[markberwyn]

Oh, I see. Before you were saying that pregnant teenagers create gangs. That makes a little more sense. Back in your day, girls didn't get pregnant as a result of trying to impress a boy?

[berwyn senator]

I think there is a whole different ball game today,just hang around the high schools and listen to the conversations of these kids,the best part is they are taught sex education!!.I wonder the amount of children who have children in high school today? How they create gangs as single parents these kids have no father figure so the gangs become their families.A little research and you will learn this to be true. these kids grow up in homes that have many kids with different fathers.I am not aware of the present statics.

[markberwyn]

This comment is a betrayal of the top-flight Berwyn-Cicero education you proudly claim. I think we can both agree that a highly educated person would not, as you have, flatly assert that children of single parents join gangs for lack of a father figure. (Is this true of every community, senator, in all cases?) And, as the research I presented to you shows, the rate of teenage pregnancy in the U.S. was *much* higher during the time you were growing up. So while I think we can agree that the "ball game," as you put it, is quite different, I'm not sure why it is your conclusion to say that things are worse.

What kind of research skills are you using to come to your conclusions? As you know, I am younger than you, so I was not equipped with the high-quality Berwyn-Cicero education that you are in possession of. I think there's a lot of foolishness these days to say you learned from "the school of hard knocks," but I think we're both smart enough to know that personal experience is nowhere near enough to draw sensible conclusions about broad socio-economic issues. So, senator, what are you reading that helps you to guide your thinking? What critical thinking skills are you applying to what you read?

[berwyn senator]

I think what your looking for has been has stated on the news,in papers. I will say not all children turn to gangs we both know that maybe I mis stated that fact I do get tired and could error.No the teen pregnancy was not higher in my day they didn't even keep records back then,again the statics have been on the news and in papers,I would need to see current research. Many of my friends were teachers suburb and Chicago schools,I would not mention what goes on in some of the schools,most could not wait to retire.Why today do we have day care in high schools? Never in my day,why do you say these are my opinions? not so,spend some time around or in a school you could be in for a big surprise.Again it was just on the news about gangs, the shootings of children,the family unit is hard to find.One young boy while with his father,a gang member,was lured into an alley and murdered a common accurence.These are not my fantasies but a reality,why do children turn to gangs family stress. Why do females have several kids with several different men? or older grandparents raising grandchildren,divorce is at an all time high which has a tremendous effect on young kids.Why are there so many section 8 families? Fact the projects were breeding grounds for gangs,what chance did these kids have?lWhat is causing all the shootings in the city spreading to some suburbs? Just today there were supposed 3 armed robberies right in Berwyn real guns or toys were used.Where do you get your facts?I would be interested to know. Why do children graduate high school,and can only read and write at the level of a seventh or eight grader?I experience this first hand at a JR. college level. Murders are happening all over the country why? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to learn about these issues,everything is before you just takes common sense.Yes I did have the luxury of a quality education of which I am proud of I believe personal experience,common sense,and street smarts is plenty to draw sensible conclusions.Where do you obtain your facts to prove I m wrong? I enjoy the stimulus of these conversations but it is getting late until tomorrow,I wish was much younger.

[markberwyn]

One thing I know the both of us can agree on is that while you are entitled to your own opinion, you're not entitled to your own facts. That's something every recipient of a top-flight education understands! You received it while you were growing up, and while I may have received a lesser version of it when I was growing up later in the Berwyn-Cicero era, I still retained that lesson. You yourself said you valued the importance of facts in your last post, because you stressed the value of what you learned "on the news, in papers." I, too, value facts! Indeed, I will include links to back up some of the facts I will point out in response to your assertions.

* Teen pregnancy is as low now as it has ever been since record were being kept, since 1940. Indeed, in the 1960s they were very high, as this 2012 report from the US Dept. of Health and Human Services shows. (Look for the chart under the headline "The U.S. teen birth rate declined 9 percent to reach a historic low in 2010."

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db89.pdf

* The divorce rate has remained remarkably steady across the decades in the United States, as the chart linked below shows. (Its source is the Centers for Disease Control.) It's around 3.4 now, down from its spike in the early 80s of higher than 5. I suppose we could talk about why the figure was as high as it was then, but the main point is that rates are not "at an all-time high," as you assert.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005044.html

* Why are there so many "section 8 families," you ask? The phrasing implies that you feel that there are too many "Section 8 families," but a report from the nonpartisan Center on Budget and Policy Priorities makes a persuasive case that housing choice vouchers improve the lives of the people who are in need of them.

http://www.cbpp.org/research/housing/research-shows-housing-vouchers-reduce-hardship-and-provide-platform-for-long-term?fa=view&id=4098

Of course, "Section 8 families" receive a lot of criticism. You can learn more about that in this Washington Post article from 2015, "How Section 8 became a 'racial slur'":

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/15/how-section-8-became-a-racial-slur/

Now, there are many people---people who are less educated than you and I, senator!---who will respond to these links and say something like, "Those numbers are rigged to promote a liberal agenda!" I imagine both of us, senator, are saddened to see that kind of language, because those complaints are *never* made in conjunction with evidence---no proof of poor research methods, no evidence of manipulation. We're smarter than that, senator!

Senator, you are a well-educated man---you remind us of it regularly! That is why I felt it was important for us to be on the same level and root the conversation in facts. I know that these facts counter some of the assertions you've made, but I know that as a well-educated man, you appreciate the correction I've delivered. No need to thank me here publicly---I know that as a well-educated man, you are already grateful.

[berwyn senator]

According to my source accurate records were not kept until after 1972,take into consideration many teens years ago got married right out of school and became pregnant,are the teens included or just single ones? Lets add a variable pre 1972 graduating classes were around 600,today they are 2000-3000 so percentages change the numbers.Teen pregnancy has dropped from 1990 highs to today but again these are percentages.I would say depending on the numbers we receive and from where are the results we accept. I would say it would be a good idea to be able to observe the inner city communities and the life style,who and how this was created don't have any idea.during these times I and yourself were way to young.If I were to make a guess politics played a good part,Daly building the projects,a huge mistake. Why are people on section 8 when all have the same opportunities as those that are not,and more so I might add.Remember numbers are always subject to interception depending where they come from.Don't you believe section 8 should be for people with hardships and not for able bodied adults are able to support themselves and don't.I don't believe this is racial slur because there are many different people on section 8.I will continue later,this is fun .

[markberwyn]

Why are people on section 8 when all have the same opportunities as those that are not,and more so I might add.

I don't understand this bit. Explain it to me please.

[berwyn senator]

How many companies have you worked for or did business with?As I mentioned previously companies had quotas for hiring,so many minorities were hired over others.This includes females even though individuals are more qualified,exposure to the big world teaches one this.Even promotions are handled with quotas,life experiences are the best teacher. Schools give children the benefit and teachers are instructed to pass them even if they are failing.If the teachers fail too many they are in trouble,think about the bowlshit you hear on tv about Chicago schools the numbers of graduating and the grade point average. All fuzz math!Previous to 1972 how were statics kept and measured? They cannot be very accurate everything was done by humans!

[berwyn senator]

I sure your aware there have been generations on welfare and section 8,for whatever the reason just to easy to except the monthly checks.I read the are record numbers on food stamps(link card),why is this happening?Ever go to store and see people pay for food with a link card and leave,an get in a nice new car?

[markberwyn]

My goodness, how you have suffered! Here you are, a person with a top-flight Berwyn-Cicero education, and to have witnessed the unjust things that you've seen! It must be galling for you to hear about students getting passed up the line while you plainly show evidence of a command of grammar and logic in a full *third* of your sentences! And sometimes you write beyond a seventh- or eighth-grade level! You know that there are so many dumb people out there---women and minorities without the appropriate skills, while you, a highly educated Berwyn-Cicero man, can just discuss statistics without even thinking! I mean, of *course* it was impossible to keep accurate statistics before 1972!

The amount of unfair entitlement you see all around you must be absolutely *galling*, senator.

Now, those minorities and women may have tried to go out and get jobs they didn't deserve---except when they're accepting welfare they didn't deserve (what do minorities and women deserve, senator?)---but you have been vigilant! You see somebody on welfare going out and buying food, and you make sure to check out what kind of car they drive! That's being on top of things! Say, what would be an appropriate car for a person on welfare to drive? Do you have a list of years, makes, and models?

[berwyn senator]

I will take the high road and not lower myself by commenting on your post.

[markberwyn]

Is it OK for somebody on food stamps to own a car made after 2000, senator? What about a television? Should they be allowed to have smartphones?

[markberwyn]

I'm asking you because you are a highly educated person and think seriously about these things.

[markberwyn]

I suppose inspecting the cars of food-stamp recipients for an appropriate level of niceness qualifies as taking the high road.