progress

[markberwyn]

We are a group of residents who are committed to the town we love, and we have more insight to what happens in Berwyn than our elected officials, and any media outlet who reports any happenings in Berwyn.

Also, it's where Bear's making book on when shootings and stabbings will happen. Contact Bear for more info.

[Ted]

  It's interesting that no one answered this question - If black people had not moved in large numbers into the area of Berwyn between Cermak and 16th street, would you still have called that area of Berwyn "Funky Town"?

  I think not.

  Nuff Said - I'm done
Ted from Sleepy Hollow

[renovatorbear]

[Matryoshka]

Oy Vey Ted,
I think you're reading too much into that word...I think Berwyn is funky because it has an eclectic mix of people...we have Arabs, Jews, Blacks, Italians, Czechs, Hispanics, Polish, Lithuanians, Greeks, etc...and OMG, gays too!!! And Berwyn, unlike our neighbor to the north, never gets due credit for being a diverse area...people still think of it as the closed-minded littlle community it was 20 years ago -

[tgoddess]

Okay, Ted...I'll answer you.

Hell, YEAH, I'd still call it "FunkyTown!"  Why?  Because *I* live here and consider myself pretty damned "funky."  In fact, I have a photo of myself from 1977 where I look a little TOO much like the little emoticon in my signature.

I LIKE the name.  I like that when Bonster noticed IMMEDIATELY that everyone's area was getting a nickname, our little section of Berwyn was overlooked and he took it upon himself to give us one himself.  That makes him funkadelic in my book.

"Between 16th and Cermak...Where we're puttin' the "fun" bacl in "funky."

[Bonster]

It's interesting that no one answered this question - If black people had not moved in large numbers into the area of Berwyn between Cermak and 16th street, would you still have called that area of Berwyn "Funky Town"?

  I think not.

  Nuff Said - I'm done
Ted from Sleepy Hollow

I did.
Funky has nothing to do with blacks.
If there were a  large number of blacks, it would no longer be funky town.
I see not where you get this idea that "funky" in any way has anything to do with blacks.

Nuff Said - You were done before you started.

[Ted]

Funky has nothing to do with blacks.
If there were a  large number of blacks, it would no longer be funky town.
I see not where you get this idea that "funky" in any way has anything to do with blacks.

Nuff Said - You were done before you started.

  Oh, wow... a facial from Bonster.  

  I was using Funky Town as an example but there have been other comments in the last month as well.  Again, I would ask that you put yourself in the shoes of an African-American person reading some of the comments that have been on this board in the last month or two.

  Do you think you would have been offended by some of the comments if you were black?  Read some of the comments in this and other recent threads and put yourself in the other guy's shoes.  How would you feel if you were a black person reading some of these comments?

  I guess I ain't done
    Ted

[OakParkSpartan]

Would I have been offended?  I don't know.  But I do know that no one else but "offended" victim can know with certainty what is or is not offensive to that person.

If you begin to worry about what "offends" every person, how the hell can you communicate?

There are people who are "offended" if you talk about cutting down a tree...should we not discuss trimming trees?  Some are offended that animals are used for food...should we not discuss food?  This thread and "Funky"...one person finds that "offensive", no one else understands why a word which is not considered racist is being touted as racist, and the discussion should come to a halt?

Sorry, but I think folks need to grow thicker skins, and discuss the topic at hand, not start crying that they're offended.

Cheers,
Brian

PS.  What exactly are you referring to Ted?  The threads that discuss Section 8?  Or the ones discussing gangbangers?

[Chancellor]

I wish to weigh in on the Ace of Fades issues and make a few general comments.  I am directly affected by, and have personal knowledge of, the operation of this business to date.  I will try not repeat points made.  I have no political involvement with the City, or with the apparent lack of agreement between the Mayor and Alderman Phelan -- other than that I supported the change of administration at the last election.

I am very troubled by Alderman Phelan's attitude toward this business and to the complaints that have been raised.

First, even without any troubles associated with the operation of this business, it should be disfavored.  It is a service business, which means it generates NO sales tax for the municipality.  Thus, the fact that City administration read the moratorium broadly to cover this type of new business just makes good economic sense, even without the presence of warning signs about the business.  And for an elected official to override the City's administration is bad for the City -- especially when it is done publicly.  Elected officials set policy; administration applies the rules.  This is the same priniciple that causes the Alderman to advocate a managerial form of government.  He should follow the example.

Second, the sign referring to the business as a "pilot project":  Alderman Phelan's position is that Rafel Pellot put the sign up without either the his or the Mayor's permission after the Alderman intervened in the licensing of the business.  In other words, Alderman Phelan has said that the sign is false.  Then why has it remained up for months?  This is not insignificant.  The presence of this sign caused residents to overlook many issues early on because it implied that the newly elected officials of our City were actually fully involved in the plan for this corner -- that is what the sign says.  If false, the sign was a fraud on the neighboring residents, and a slap in the face to the other businesses on 16th Street that have actually poured real money and effort to improve the strip.

Third, I concur with Panther, hounddog and others in the manner in which this business has been run since it opened its doors.  The loitering and parking issues I have personally observed continually for months.  To these I would add the following:  (1) the business has had regular vehicle traffic where individuals hanging outside the shop visit vehicles that pull up -- usually blocking or partially blocking the alley -- and the vehicle leaves; (2) there is trespass, in that loiterers having lengthy cellphone discussions in the alley sit on the neighbor's deck adjacent to the alley and eat fruit of his trees; (3) the loitering has often included extremely loud and filthy language, and this, regardless of whether young children are walking by (the language is consistent with the pieces of music that were posted on the Ace of Fades website); (4) gang signs and colors are a regular occurence at the location; (5) the shop is a hangout, not just a barbershop, and has been from the moment it opened its doors -- the place was full the minute it opened and all day, too; (6) the loitering has included individuals who walk up and down the alley, looking in rear yards.

Regarding number (6) above, what has also not been mentioned thusfar is that in September two burglaries occurred on the 1500 block of Ridgeland.  What is important is that they were in broad daylight on the only two houses where everyone is regularly out during the day -- and the entries were made from the alley.  I do not recall ever seeing these reported in the Life, by the way.  Alderman Phelan surely should have been aware of these and should have been troubled.

Fourth, it is most disturbing that even with all of the above, Alderman Phelan publically accuses the City's Police Department of harassment in general, and with constitutional violations regarding the "raid."  The raid consisted of one the City's new drug canines "hitting" at the location and the police being invited in to find nothing.  Is everyone aware, by the way, of the 95% plus accuracy rate of such dogs?  Again, to trash the police department, and publically accuse the Police Chief of ordering a "raid" on a business on command of the Mayor is a fairly serious charge, and on the facts of the case, troubling.

Fifth, if the City is not directly involved with the redevelopment as the sign suggests, why are the myriad property maintenance issues not addressed?  This building looks absolutely horrible and has for months.  The new owner has only made cosmetic improvements to the inside of Ace of Fades -- the exterior is worse than it has ever been.  Alderman Phelan sings the praises of this business while real business people have made 16th Street look better -- just look at what Cinco Hermanos did with the eyesore that was on that corner -- or what the Mannos did with Pizza Ria.

Sixth, Alderman Phelan claims the Ace of Fades fills a "need" and that "we have nothing here," anyway.  Let's start with the offensiveness of "we have nothing."  What about those other recent businesses?  Pizza Ria, Cinco Hermanos and Parad -- are they nothing?  And these businesses serve the local community.  There are bridal and baby showers held after hours at Cinco Hermanos; birthday parties are held at Parad.  And these businesses generate sales tax income.  Let me tell a story about how Ace of Fades serves the local community.  A local resident walked to Ace of Fades with his 8-year-old son to get a haircut.  The place was crowded but not full.  He sat for 15 minutes with his son and no one approached him or spoke to him.  He said he felt that something was strange about the place, he felt uncomfortable and left.

In sum, I do not believe that this business has been good for the City, and definitely not for the 6th Ward.

I also do not feel that a liquor license should be issued to that location.  Rafael is not the owner of the building, but he is a participant in the business that will fill the rest of that building.  I think the problems above and other information presented during this thread are warning signals that counsel against a liquor license -- at least at this time.

As a resident, I would really like to see the elected officials work together to improve the City.  Some of the things that need to be done are ignored because of the desire to politically embarass opponents, whether new or old.  I do think Alderman Phelan's point about teardowns is a good one, especially in North Berwyn.  I think the problem should be resolved by defining what housing stock is worth preserving because of its historical value, while lifting the moratorium as to all other structures.  I think we need a gang loitering ordinance; Chicago's second version has been upheld by the courts and it would give the police an additional tool.  And I do think a managerial structure is a good idea -- get the elected officials out of managing the City day to day -- and get them into developing a vision for the City.

For example, the BDC was not involved at all in the 16th and Ridgeland building.  The City should consider a creating a developmental vision that works for all its internal east/west corridors, including 39th Street, 26th Street, and 16th Street, and work to get decent developers interested.

Just my opinion.

[Bear]

"Some are offended that animals are used for food...should we not discuss food?"

Meat...Its whats for dinner!

[Ted]

There are people who are "offended" if you talk about cutting down a tree...should we not discuss trimming trees?  Some are offended that animals are used for food...should we not discuss food?  This thread and "Funky"...one person finds that "offensive", no one else understands why a word which is not considered racist is being touted as racist, and the discussion should come to a halt?

Sorry, but I think folks need to grow thicker skins, and discuss the topic at hand, not start crying that they're offended.

Cheers,
Brian

PS.  What exactly are you referring to Ted?  The threads that discuss Section 8?  Or the ones discussing gangbangers?

Brian,  I am not advocating not discussing this or that people shouldn't say what they want to say.  I am a believer in the free flow of information and ideas.  So, first off, I am NOT advocating limiting discussion or having people stop saying what they are saying.  People can say whatever they want to say and I have the right to say that I think what is said could be construed as being racist or offensive.

  Second, I am not referring to section 8 housing or the alleged drug dealing at Ace of Fades.  I do think and support a Berwyn Housing Authority and limiting section 8 housing.  I also want to get rid of drug dealers and gang bangers.

 but I do think this thread and the "Shaneetha" thread went over the top in some of the statements that were made and could be construed as being racist.

 That's what I'm saying.

 Ted

[robertcarr]

Has Ace of Fades done anything illegal?

- Robert Carr

[P-PANTHER a/k/a La Pantera]

Robert,

The only time we'll know is after the fact. Good enough?

[Bru67]

There are people who are "offended" if you talk about cutting down a tree...should we not discuss trimming trees?  Some are offended that animals are used for food...should we not discuss food?  This thread and "Funky"...one person finds that "offensive", no one else understands why a word which is not considered racist is being touted as racist, and the discussion should come to a halt?

Sorry, but I think folks need to grow thicker skins, and discuss the topic at hand, not start crying that they're offended.

Cheers,
Brian

PS.  What exactly are you referring to Ted?  The threads that discuss Section 8?  Or the ones discussing gangbangers?

I do think and support a Berwyn Housing Authority and limiting section 8 housing.  I also want to get rid of drug dealers and gang bangers.

Invariably, attempts to control, limit or eliminate these things can be argued as "racist" from a certain perspective because minorities will be disproportionately impacted, especially around here.  Whether that's the result of past racism or insensitivity is debatable but that's the reality.

Of course, tying drug dealing and fade haircuts to African Americans, for example, is also somewhat racist but that's a whole 'nother story. 

Question is, are you willing to do the right thing in the face of that?  Not to start another stereotype but, truthfully, most liberals don't have to deal with this sticky issue because they don't live near it.  It's usually in someone else's back yard and they can criticize from a distance -- without perspective and with self-righteousness on their side. 

[delbowz]

  I do not know why she didn't want to issue a license other than she kept arguing that we had a moratorium on hair salons.  I argued that it was not a salon but a barber shop. 

You know, I keep coming back to this one...  A license was argued against b/c it was a "hair salon" - but that was over ruled b/c in fact it is a barber shop.  Does anything in the license mention that it's going to be a bar and restaraunt?  This just isn't sitting well with me - maybe I'm missing the bigger picture.  But if they were granted a license to be a barber shop - how can they operate a bar and restaraunt?

Denise

[bohemian]

The problem I see is that tossing out "racist" is a way of distracting from the issues at hand and trying to end the conversation by derailing it.  I do not accuse you of this, but when that word and others like are used, it often results in utter disarray and, well, an end to the conversation that should be the focus. 

  The fact that we have wasted so much time and so many posts on this whole issue of race and the word "funky" is absolutely gut wrenching.  That is the problem with society as a whole with the race card being dragged into everything but that is a whole other story.

  To answer your question Ted, THIS is what makes people racist in the first place because some of us and our families have worked our whole lives to better ourselves, raise our families, and maintain our homes like decent productive people.  Do the patrons of Ace of Fades, Bugi, or any undesirable business share the same morals, values, commitment to our families, and God as we do?  Absolutely not.  If the people in question happen to be Black or Hispanic, well if the shoe fits, then you know the rest. 

  To accuse people as being racist is such a typical cop out.  Go and accuse the former residents of Cicero, Berwyn, Maywood, Bellwood, Broadview, Harvey, Markham, Riverdale, Elgin, The West Side of Chicago, and on, and on, and on, that they are intollerant and racist.  Those areas are plagued with crime and poverty and all of those people have had to move out by the 10's of thousands to escape loosing big money on their homes or putting their personal safety as risk.  Just like Bru67 stated.  Liberls can sit in their ivory towers in Oak Park, Riverside, etc. and cast us off as racists but they don't have to live with the problems that we do. 

  I have decided to stick it out for the long haul.  I don't want to see Berwyn become "Little Mexico" or Little Africa", I would like to see a diverse mix of hard working, law abiding families and people, decide to make Berwyn their home ragardless of race.

[Ted]

...Does anything in the license mention that it's going to be a bar and restaraunt?  This just isn't sitting well with me - maybe I'm missing the bigger picture.  But if they were granted a license to be a barber shop - how can they operate a bar and restaraunt?

Denise

 Denise,

 To get a liquor license, the city would have to pass a law increasing the number of liquor licenses in the city unless the ownership bought or took over an existing license.

 Even if the new owners took over an existing license, I think there would have to be a liquor license hearing.

 If there is a liquor hearing on the expected bar on 16th and Ridgeland, then I think people who live in the area should attend the hearing and voice their concerns.

Ted

[Ted]

...Liberals can sit in their ivory towers in Oak Park, Riverside, etc. and cast us off as racists but they don't have to live with the problems that we do. 

  For the record, I don't live in Oak Park or Riverside. I live in Berwyn, east Berwyn at that.  All my neighbors are Hispanic now and in the last year 3 African-American families have moved into the 3 flats just down the street from me.

  I come from a family where my grandparents, aunts and uncles fled Englewood and Austin in the 60s (with some moving into north Berwyn) and saw their dream houses plummet in value because of realtor scare tactics and white flight

I am not accusing anyone of being racist.  But, re-read some of the comments made here in the last month and some of those comments come off as being racially insensitive.

  And, I admit that the situation at 21st and Grove and the increase in crime and drug deallings scare the hell out of me. But what does a website advertising red hair in a certain style for black people have to do with crime or drugs? 
 
Ted

[markberwyn]

Robert,

The only time we'll know is after the fact. Good enough?

So this thread is basically a witchhunt, then?

[bohemian]

I am not accusing anyone of being racist.  But, re-read some of the comments made here in the last month and some of those comments come off as being racially insensitive.

Ted, you are a good man.  I have even made comments in another post that people like Shelly and yourself tirelessly try and make Berwyn a better place and you to it with dignity and Honor but you need to understand the frustrations that we have here.

I along with other posters I am sure, am not concerned with the "feelings" of African Americans and others who may be reading this board when we have some very serious issues that may involve an influx of African Americans and Hispanics to our city that could potentially affect the values of our homes and the safety of our families.  I would rather live a normal life than deal with these issues but unfortunately that just can't happen.