progress

[cozynite]

Robert,

The only time we'll know is after the fact. Good enough?

So this thread is basically a witchhunt, then?

I don't know if this is all so much of a witchhunt, but more likely some overly concerned residents.  Having said that, I think that people are more scared of the unknown than the familiar.  The shop Ace of Fades could be considered as definitely unknown.  But maybe it will turn out to be a good thing that it's here.  We just might be judging things too quickly...

[markberwyn]

I along with other posters I am sure, am not concerned with the "feelings" of African Americans and others who may be reading this board when we have some very serious issues that may involve an influx of African Americans and Hispanics to our city that could potentially affect the values of our homes and the safety of our families.  I would rather live a normal life than deal with these issues but unfortunately that just can't happen.

Wow.

[Ted]

I am not accusing anyone of being racist.  But, re-read some of the comments made here in the last month and some of those comments come off as being racially insensitive.

Ted, you are a good man.  I have even made comments in another post that people like Shelly and yourself tirelessly try and make Berwyn a better place and you to it with dignity and Honor but you need to understand the frustrations that we have here.

I along with other posters I am sure, am not concerned with the "feelings" of African Americans and others who may be reading this board when we have some very serious issues that may involve an influx of African Americans and Hispanics to our city that could potentially affect the values of our homes and the safety of our families.  I would rather live a normal life than deal with these issues but unfortunately that just can't happen.

Bohemian,

 Thank you.  I appreciate the compliment.  I also share the same fears.  I drive down Oak Park avenue or go past 21st and Grove and these feelings of fear of the way Berwyn has changed in the last few years come over me.  I am not immune from these feelings, based on what happened to my relatives in Englewood and Austin.

 If I lived on 21st and Kenilworth, I would probably be feeling the same thing.  I just don't want this fear to lead to flight. That's the worst thing that could happen.  And I think we need to separate the issue of race from the issue of crime.

  This is something we need to talk about.  I often thought it might be a good idea for the whites, Latino's and blacks in Berwyn to just sit down one Saturday and just have dinner and talk to each other, sort of like what the Pilgrims did with the Indians 425 years ago.

  Until we all talk to each other and understand each other, we will never get anywhere.

  A few weeks ago, Shelley said something that I think is relevant.  It seems like we have become two or three Berwyns with none of the Berwyns talking to each other.  It's like we have become 3 different cities all occupying the same geographical area.

Ted

[scoon]

Robert,

The only time we'll know is after the fact. Good enough?

So this thread is basically a witchhunt, then?

It certainly seems that way.  The direction this thread has taken scares the hell out of me.

[bohemian]

I along with other posters I am sure, am not concerned with the "feelings" of African Americans and others who may be reading this board when we have some very serious issues that may involve an influx of African Americans and Hispanics to our city that could potentially affect the values of our homes and the safety of our families.  I would rather live a normal life than deal with these issues but unfortunately that just can't happen.


Wow.

Whats wrong markberwyn?  You have been strangely quiet about this whole subject except when it comes to newspapers of course.  What are your thoughts?  

[~LL~]

..."you and your stereotypical friends you chat with here on this board"...

Berwynresident, one more thing...As a newcomer to BerwynTalk, you should listen before you speak. This site is the main means of information, news, and all things Berwyn.

We are a group of residents who are committed to the town we love, and we have more insight to what happens in Berwyn than our elected officials, and any media outlet who reports any happenings in Berwyn.

If you fart in public, we will know about it before anyone smells what you ate last night.

We are not stereotypical, and we do not "chat" here. We are a group of residents who have made a commitment to make our town the best it can be. If you take the time to watch postings in our discussions, you will see many of us are involved with several different community organizations to achieve our ultimate goal.

Don't ever come in here and chastise our ass unless you are trying to make Berwyn a better place on your own accord...We will cut you a fresh one every time.

Boo-Yaa!, Bear.  And, thanks!  Perhaps if 'Berwynresident' had a drug dealer on his block, he would understand how one comes to be suspicious of a lot of things.  Could have knocked my white middle-class rear down with a feather when it  was pointed out to me  that the way their lawn sprinkler was positioned on the front lawn 'meant something'. One way = they had 'stuff'; another way = don't honk, don't come to the door".  Yet another = the 'associate' on the next block is holding today....  Believe it.

[markberwyn]

I along with other posters I am sure, am not concerned with the "feelings" of African Americans and others who may be reading this board when we have some very serious issues that may involve an influx of African Americans and Hispanics to our city that could potentially affect the values of our homes and the safety of our families.  I would rather live a normal life than deal with these issues but unfortunately that just can't happen.


Wow.

Whats wrong markberwyn?  You have been strangely quiet about this whole subject except when it comes to newspapers of course.  What are your thoughts? 

Nothing wrong. I was just thinking how this town never really changes. The "this town used to be nice/normal/good until blacks/Latinos/Greeks/Bohemians moved in" business has been with this town since the 60s at least.

Please, carry on with your jokes about haircuts, speculation about what other races' behavior, and fearmongering about property values. I'm learning lots about Berwyn.

[robertcarr]

Robert,

The only time we'll know is after the fact. Good enough?

For many on this board? Apparently.

[bohemian]

I along with other posters I am sure, am not concerned with the "feelings" of African Americans and others who may be reading this board when we have some very serious issues that may involve an influx of African Americans and Hispanics to our city that could potentially affect the values of our homes and the safety of our families.  I would rather live a normal life than deal with these issues but unfortunately that just can't happen.


Wow.

Whats wrong markberwyn?  You have been strangely quiet about this whole subject except when it comes to newspapers of course.  What are your thoughts?  


Nothing wrong. I was just thinking how this town never really changes. The "this town used to be nice/normal/good until blacks/Latinos/Greeks/Bohemians moved in" business has been with this town since the 60s at least.

Please, carry on with your jokes about haircuts, speculation about what other races' behavior, and fearmongering about property values. I'm learning lots about Berwyn.

typical

[robertcarr]

I along with other posters I am sure, am not concerned with the "feelings" of African Americans and others who may be reading this board when we have some very serious issues that may involve an influx of African Americans and Hispanics to our city that could potentially affect the values of our homes and the safety of our families.  I would rather live a normal life than deal with these issues but unfortunately that just can't happen.


Wow.

Whats wrong markberwyn?  You have been strangely quiet about this whole subject except when it comes to newspapers of course.  What are your thoughts?  


Nothing wrong. I was just thinking how this town never really changes. The "this town used to be nice/normal/good until blacks/Latinos/Greeks/Bohemians moved in" business has been with this town since the 60s at least.

Please, carry on with your jokes about haircuts, speculation about what other races' behavior, and fearmongering about property values. I'm learning lots about Berwyn.

typical

Unfortunately, no, not typical. I agree with markberwyn, this has been a learning experience.
Personally, I think it's good to get all racist a-holes out in the open. Too bad most don't have the guts to say who they really are.
THAT'S typical.

[OakParkSpartan]

I along with other posters I am sure, am not concerned with the "feelings" of African Americans and others who may be reading this board when we have some very serious issues that may involve an influx of African Americans and Hispanics to our city that could potentially affect the values of our homes and the safety of our families.  I would rather live a normal life than deal with these issues but unfortunately that just can't happen.


Wow.

Whats wrong markberwyn?  You have been strangely quiet about this whole subject except when it comes to newspapers of course.  What are your thoughts? 


Nothing wrong. I was just thinking how this town never really changes. The "this town used to be nice/normal/good until blacks/Latinos/Greeks/Bohemians moved in" business has been with this town since the 60s at least.

Please, carry on with your jokes about haircuts, speculation about what other races' behavior, and fearmongering about property values. I'm learning lots about Berwyn.

typical

Unfortunately, no, not typical. I agree with markberwyn, this has been a learning experience.
Personally, I think it's good to get all racist a-holes out in the open. Too bad most don't have the guts to say who they really are.
THAT'S typical.

So wait...we should all be happy that criminals are living close to us?

We should be happy hearing mothers scream "Get your fucking ass in the fucking car" to her 4 kids, none of which are probably over age 7?  We should be happy with Graffiti on our garages?  We should be happy to have neighbors walk down the street with a gun stuck in their pants?

It's real easy to say that when it isn't happening in your neighborhood (or community).  The whole "Racist" BS in this thread is just that.  BS.  Your perspective would be a little different if it was where you live, not just where you tell others how to live.

Cheers,
Brian

[robertcarr]

I along with other posters I am sure, am not concerned with the "feelings" of African Americans and others who may be reading this board when we have some very serious issues that may involve an influx of African Americans and Hispanics to our city that could potentially affect the values of our homes and the safety of our families.  I would rather live a normal life than deal with these issues but unfortunately that just can't happen.


-cut-

It's real easy to say that when it isn't happening in your neighborhood (or community).  The whole "Racist" BS in this thread is just that.  BS.  Your perspective would be a little different if it was where you live, not just where you tell others how to live.

Cheers,
Brian

Really?
Do tell how "when we have some very serious issues that may involve an influx of African Americans and Hispanics to our city that could potentially affect the values of our homes and the safety of our families" isn't racist. Please. I'd love to hear it.
I'm not saying whether I disagree or agree. I come from Detroit, a city defined by white flight.

It's not the race that causes gang activity, robberies, shootings, etc. It's the people doing it, and how they were raised.

But I guess it's just easier to think about your property values than to tackle such issues....

[markberwyn]

We should be happy hearing mothers scream "Get your fucking ass in the fucking car" to her 4 kids, none of which are probably over age 7?  We should be happy with Graffiti on our garages?  We should be happy to have neighbors walk down the street with a gun stuck in their pants?

Oh, is that what this thread was about, Brian? Crappy moms? Graffiti? People carrying guns? Because that's not what this thread read like to me.

[Bru67]

I know there's issues and they are complicated but, again guys, let's try to avoid painting Berwyn to look like Gary, Indiana here ok?  That's simply not the case.  How many murders have we had this year?  0. 

I see this much more a demographic and attitude issue v. a race one.  I think the complained of conduct can be discussed without bringing race into it.  I don't see how that can possibly be productive.  On one hand, you'll have those throwing out the race card.  On the other, people trying to defend why they're not racist.  It won't advance the discussion.

And to the several folks reading this from other cities weighing Berwyn v. Forest Park, Berwyn's NOT as bad as this thread makes it sound, I swear. 

[Bonster]

Has Ace of Fades done anything illegal?

- Robert Carr

Worse.  Aderman Phelan helped get a business in order that the citizens would not have wanted.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in that he may have thought he was doing good by putting something there, but it's painfully obvious he didn't do his research.

He won't post here again.  Not because of us, but because he's defenseless and knows it...

[Count DMC]

I often thought it might be a good idea for the whites, Latino's and blacks in Berwyn to just sit down one Saturday and just have dinner and talk to each other, sort of like what the Pilgrims did with the Indians 425 years ago.

Yeah and looked what happened to those poor Redskins after Whitey got done eating. Who is gonna get it this time?

[Bonster]

Really?
Do tell how "when we have some very serious issues that may involve an influx of African Americans and Hispanics to our city that could potentially affect the values of our homes and the safety of our families" isn't racist. Please. I'd love to hear it.

Nice job taking the post of one and painting others' intentions with its meaning.

[Bear]

I took a ride past the property in question after work. Damn beautiful building,
the facia brick work is truly masterful. The voided small storefonts are not.

AofF was open. It's Monday. Barbershops are closed on Monday so as I suspected this is not
a union shop and can not be classified as a barbershop. It is a hair salon, which puts the business license on very shaking legal ground if one chose to seek revocation.

I really don't think this is a racial deal, this area has been a mixed bag for quite some time.
I think the local residents are upset because this business has become a point of congregation for the bad element that has been surrounding them.

They are open, so I guess short of a legal challenge of the license if I were a nearby resident I
would start documenting calls to BPD regarding problems and challenge the business under existing nuisance ordinance. One drug bust in the area given the proximity of Lincoln school
would go a long way on dropping the hammer rather quickly.

As far as the bar deal goes, after seeing the building I don't think you could open it up into
a larger venue without running into a serious structure expense. Methinks the deal has already
pooched because of cost. If I am incorrect, and it is moving forward then the residents must
band together and express your displeasure with the city.

I would start with getting signed petitions, and you as a group must attend en masse every
hearing and meeting regarding the project to express your  reasons why this endeavour would
affect the neighborhood in an adverse way.

Community involvement goes a long way, it is always best to act rather than react.

Things that are allowed to fester always turn into a nasty mess

[Berwyn Patsy]

Bear is making some sense here guys.  I don't think it's all based on racial lines, either. It 's a crappy place , with crappy people hanging out, and all of you as neighbors and citizens do need to stay together and make a statement . That statement is not going to be about the race in that neighborhood, but about the expectation of standards in that neighborhood.  Now get together and go for it!!

[bohemian]

Really?
Do tell how "when we have some very serious issues that may involve an influx of African Americans and Hispanics to our city that could potentially affect the values of our homes and the safety of our families" isn't racist. Please. I'd love to hear it.



Nice job taking the post of one and painting others' intentions with its meaning.

Oh boy, here we go.  Lets drag the racist bohemian into the street and shoot em.   I wonder what thoughts regarding race run through some of your minds.  I am sure they are all pure and innocent.  We all live together in harmony.  Cats and dogs living together and so on.

The house next door to me was for sale very cheap recently.  I was very nervous because it was in anybody's price range due to the condition.  A Hispanic family bought it and I got to tell you, I am so happy with these people.  They had to have spent $75,000 on it in the last few months.  They are probably back up to market value but instead of some undesirables buying it and running it into the ground this family bought it and breathed new life into the area.  The icing on the cake is their 17 YEAR OLD SON always greets me formally and is a total gentleman.  That is all I want to see in our area.  Hard working people regardless of race taking care of and maintaining their home just like I do.  It also doesn't hurt to raise your kids to be decent people. 

Bear, the building was in disrepair for some time.  Then the owner started to "remodel" it.  They cleaned up the limestone and painted the brick (which I don't like) instead of having it restored but it still looked ok.  The front entrance of the bar collapsed due to age and structural weakness all over the street.  I don't think they put it back together keeping the buildings historic characteristics in mind but it was liveable.  Then came the abortion of the front facade remodel.  Well you all have seen that.