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Author Topic: Teachers union representing dist 201 supposedly is in favor of this  (Read 480 times)
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Roger
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« on: February 07, 2010, 09:01:06 PM »

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2009/10/race_to_the_top_teachers_left.html
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jake
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« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2010, 09:46:32 AM »

I think Obama is spot on here in concept, and I really hope he does not cave to the union on this program.

This is change that I can believe in.
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Preparing for the next economic tsunami.


« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2010, 05:46:58 PM »

Well, I'll be... I never thought I would live to see the day that Jake almost compliments Obama.  Next you'll be naming your next of kin after the man.   Grin

But I don't share your opinion on this either... the best the federal government can do is get the f__ out of education.  Charter schools are not the solution, but a band-aid that will help only a small % that are considered "smart" and can't afford private schools.

As skeptical as I originally was about the voucher system... I think it's the only way to change.  Vouchers for those without kids to get some % of a refund for not using the system that year.  Vouchers for those that send their kids to private schools.  Extra payments for the Octo-moms that send too many kids into the system.

Yes, it will cause some schools to breakdown and fail... but only those unwilling or incapable of changing to the demands of the free markets.
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George Lambesis
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« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2010, 05:07:27 PM »

Illinois has applied for RTTT money, so I think that teachers' unions were asked to sign a letter of understanding concerning RTTT.  Illinois is looking at this as a way to fund education without raising taxes.  That being said, the assault on public education is nothing more than a smokescreen for the private sector (charter schools, tutoring programs, consultants, etc.) to get its hands on public monies.  The politicians go along with it, because they lack the balls to hold parents accountable.  That being said, teachers deserve their fate...because they don't vote!  Both major teachers' unions (IFT, IEA) endorsed Hynes for governor.  (Without getting into a debate over pensions, it should be pointed out that Quinn is in favor of reducing teachers' pensions.)  IFT and IEA combined, have well over 200,000 members....teachers could have made a difference in this election.  In 2008, Bob Haisman, a past president of IEA, rallied teachers from near and far in support of Obama.  IEA endorsed Obama in the presidential primary, even though IEA presidential endorsements are almost unheard of in primary elections.  I wonder how that's working out for them?
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OakParkSpartan
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« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2010, 06:12:58 PM »

Illinois has applied for RTTT money, so I think that teachers' unions were asked to sign a letter of understanding concerning RTTT.  Illinois is looking at this as a way to fund education without raising taxes.  That being said, the assault on public education is nothing more than a smokescreen for the private sector (charter schools, tutoring programs, consultants, etc.) to get its hands on public monies.  The politicians go along with it, because they lack the balls to hold parents accountable.  That being said, teachers deserve their fate...because they don't vote!  Both major teachers' unions (IFT, IEA) endorsed Hynes for governor.  (Without getting into a debate over pensions, it should be pointed out that Quinn is in favor of reducing teachers' pensions.)  IFT and IEA combined, have well over 200,000 members....teachers could have made a difference in this election.  In 2008, Bob Haisman, a past president of IEA, rallied teachers from near and far in support of Obama.  IEA endorsed Obama in the presidential primary, even though IEA presidential endorsements are almost unheard of in primary elections.  I wonder how that's working out for them?

You talk about "the assault on public education" taking money way from your union?  Look at Morton's results.  What about the assault upon the child's future?

 What is currently being done obviously isn't working.  A different approach would be welcomed (including a charter school).
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George Lambesis
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« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2010, 09:46:02 PM »

OPS,
When did I ever say that the assault on public education was taking money away from my union?  It's taking money away from you, the taxpayer, but that's not the point.  Let's look at Morton's results.  There are many, many, students who excel at Morton...they get good grades, stay out of trouble, graduate, go on to college, and lead productive adult lives.  I wonder what those kids have in common?  (hint: parenting at home)  What about the assault upon the child's future?  Take truancy for example: who's to blame when a student doesn't go to school?  Why is it that school employees are mandated by law to report suspected child abuse, but they can't call DCFS when a child has 15+ unexcused absences in a semester?  What about teen pregnancy, or juvenile delenquency?  Must be the school's fault.  You're right, "What is currently being done obviously isn't working."  Time is being taken out of the day to cater to social and emotional issues that were traditionally the responsibility of the parents.  I've said it before, have you ever heard of PBIS or SEL?  You might be familiar with some of the content being taught by those initiatives, by some of the names they used to be called, MANNERS, RESPECT, EMPATHY, COMMON SENSE.  And that's just the tip of the iceberg.  Why is it that for many students, the most nutritious meal(s) they eat in a day is/are eaten at school? 

You see, it's a lot easier to blame teachers (easy target because they don't vote), administrators, school board members, and even janitors, for the ills of our society.  I can honestly tell you, from what I see daily, that public education is constantly  making adjustments (some small, many huge) to better educate children.  It ain't a union thing.  People constantly piss and moan (and rightly so) on this board about their shithead neighbors...do you think that any of those shitheads have children who go to public schools in Berwyn? 
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Ted
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« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2010, 06:39:37 AM »

You see, it's a lot easier to blame teachers (easy target because they don't vote), administrators, school board members, and even janitors, for the ills of our society.  I can honestly tell you, from what I see daily, that public education is constantly  making adjustments (some small, many huge) to better educate children.  It ain't a union thing.  People constantly piss and moan (and rightly so) on this board about their shithead neighbors...do you think that any of those shitheads have children who go to public schools in Berwyn?  

  Sometimes, it IS the teachers and administrators and school board members. CARES had a student panel discussion 2 years ago and I remember students talking about how they had to fight to get into the classes they wanted to get into and how they had a hard time getting counselors to give them time.
  
 + When a school district puts kids into Algrebra II even though they failed Algebra I just so the district can get the kids "through the system",  then it is a teacher problem and an administrator problem and a school board problem.

 + When school board members blame the grammar school districts for the low test scores of the high school district, then it is a teacher problem and an administrator problem and a school board problem.

 + When school board members and administrators create an atmosphere in a school district that favors patronage and politics over the students, then it is a teacher problem and an administrator problem and a school board problem.

 + When people move away from a community in droves when their kids reach high school age (as evidenced in the last census) because of a school district's reputation, then it is a teacher problem and an administrator problem and a school board problem.


 Here is the best rebuttal I can post to George's post:


I am a resident (and homeowner), but not a parent. I grew up in District 103, attending elementary school in Stickney and high school in Berwyn (Morton West, of course). I moved from the area to the West Coast in 1995 and returned in 2003. I have no relationship with the school administration and no inclination to defend it....

Frankly, as a Morton West student, I felt cheated. I did not learn all that I could have. I wasn't challenged enough and, worst of all, the lousy reputation of the school clung to me after I'd left. If you want to understand my motivation, consider the following:

I was an athlete at Morton, and I will never forget walking into Downers Grove South, being taunted by the opposing team, whose members were taking bets on which of us could read.

When I wanted to apply to U of I, there were no application packets in the MW guidance office. I asked for help, but the counselor told me I'd have to handle it on my own; they were too busy with students who were in peril of failing out. I don't begrudge those students help, but I could have used some guidance myself, particularly because my parents were borderline hostile to the idea of my going to college, especially away.

When I called U of I to get an application packet myself, the admissions woman began taking down my information. She asked for my ZIP code and high school. After I answered, she paused. Then she asked, "Do you think you could get in here? I mean, we don't get many kids from your school here. This is a tough school..." I applied, got in, and graduated in 3.5 years with highest honors. But getting to that point was another story.

When I  moved into the dorms, I saw that some idorm adviser had plastered everybody's name, high school and home town on their doors. The idea was for people to have something to talk about because we would know something about each other from the start. In my case, it meant people assumed I was dumb and/or racist. It was a very long year of dorm life. I'm a pretty friendly person, but I made not one friend on that floor.

   I did fine as a student at U of I. I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I know I'm fairly good at school, smart in the way it takes to do that kind of work. I'm not one of those people who gets it instantly, but if I work at it, I can get reasonably good grades. Still, the other students I was around tended to be better educated, even if they weren't exactly smarter than me. They knew things and places, history and social theory and math that I never learned at Morton. It was as though we'd read the same books, but my copy had had some missing pages.

   And keep in mind that when I was a high school student, I had parents who would go down to the school if I needed them to be my advocates. I was a smart kid and well liked by most teachers in high school. I wasn't afraid to ask for help. If this is the kind of experience I had at MW, what happened to the other kids? I used to feel especially bad for the smart Mexican-American kids, because no one seemed to recognize their potential.

   My current next-door neighbor has a 13-year-old son who will be going off to high school next year. He's a nice kid, goes to Catholic school. I advised the neighbor to send his kid to private high school, telling him a little about my experience and that I thought it would be worse for his son, a dark-skinned Latino male. I don't think every teacher or administrator at Morton West fails to see potential in Latino students, but I couldn't advise my neighbor to take the risk with his great kid. He'll probably be at Fenwick next year. It makes me sad that that's the kind of advice I feel compelled to give. I'd like to be able to encourage people to put their kids in the local schools, all of them. If I have any agenda, that's it.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 08:16:29 AM by Ted » Logged
mustang54
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« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2010, 09:55:14 AM »

  Goerge there is blame on all sides. Yes in some cases shithead parents are a problem but I have seen many kids with bad homes excel in school and go on to be the first in their families to go to college. Many teachers at Morton go above and beyond their job description to help the kids who so badly need it. But Ted is right on the money in his description of what causes many kids to fail. Those students are not trouble makers they are the middle of the road students who are getting the short end of the stick by a system and employees that fail. I have seen Morton teachers do many things that they should have been fired for and in some cases arrested. Students would have been but they were allowed to go on and get a pay check. Yet I have seen teachers do things for kids that have turned their lives around for them. With the size of Morton you have to remember they will have double the good and double the bad of most other schools because it is such a large district.
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jake
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« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2010, 11:38:59 AM »

In concept, Obama's goal is to pay for performance.  This is measured by student testing.   

From the article in the OP:

"And for both the No Child Left Behind initiative that Bush won during his first year in office and the Race to the Top initiative that Obama's Department of Education is sponsoring in his first year, that means more student testing. "

"The administration and foundation share common goals: Paying schoolteachers based on the performance of their students, and that means testing, encouraging charter schools that operate independently of local school boards; and establishing a common academic standards adopted by every state. "


However, some teachers don't want to have to demonstrate performance. 

"The big teachers' unions are at odds with some of these goals. They complain that standardized testing has run amok. "

Some people are crying for a results oriented approach to healthcare compensation now; why not a results oriented approach to education? 

There are plenty of "levers" to examine to explain the failing education, including lack of parental interest.  As a taxpayer, I cannot pull many of the levers (e.g., I cannot force parents to spend time helping their kids).  However, as taxpayers, teacher pay is a lever we can and should be moving around.

Giving credit where it is due, Obama is on the right path here.   
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Shelley
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« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2010, 02:46:27 PM »


"The administration and foundation share common goals: Paying schoolteachers based on the performance of their students, and that means testing, encouraging charter schools that operate independently of local school boards; and establishing a common academic standards adopted by every state. "[/i]

The legislation that passed in the IL senate in the race for the "Race to the Top" grant mentions tying student growth to teacher EVALUATIONS, not teacher pay or tenure.  From what I've read, it would be up to local school boards and administrators to use this as a tool OR NOT.  Currently, I believe that teacher evaluations have little or nothing to do with teacher pay.  In fact, I've read something like 90% of teachers get an "Exceeds expectations" or "Superior" evaluation. 

http://berwyncares-blog.blogspot.com/2010/01/illinois-racing-to-top.html



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