District 201 - Public Hearing - Thusrday, February 25th - West Campus

[ronna]

I live in this community and have have a couple comments.

·   District 201 will never split into 2 different districts. The Berwyn community is changing more like the Cicero community every year so they are very equal.

·   District 201 has the lowest paid teachers & administrators in all of Cook County so the pay scales aren’t the problem it’s the funding. 201 doesn’t want to end up like CPS and RIF every non-tenured teacher every year or they will never get good teachers. If this continues no new teacher would want to work here knowing they will eventually lose their job. Then our students would get a worse education. I don’t think 201 spends poorly they just don’t have the funds to operate this community would like.

·   201’s school district is unlike many in the area. They compare student body wise to towns like LaGrange, Hinsdale, Elmhurst, & Downers Grove. All of these towns are very wealthy and have very high taxes. Berwyn and Cicero have a similar amount of students but our taxes are much lower, especially the amount that goes to the schools. Also, because this area has a much higher poverty rate than these other local communities our taxes are high for them so passing a referendum will be difficult. That being said this school is under funded and a referendum is needed to survive past 2015.

·   These other communities that compare to 201 do have better funded schools, and do deserve it because they pay a lot in taxes to have those benefits. But they way the system is set up is the main problem for lower funded schools. The 57% of the money that goes to schools from property taxes should only come from actual peoples residences. But this isn’t how it works. For example many of the people in 201 shop at North riverside mall but get zero benefits from them it, it goes to the North Riverside/Riverside districts but their residents aren’t the only contributors. Since the system is set up like this it will always be unfair. The only way to set it up how schools get money fairly no matter where you live is the community your are from puts in whatever normally do or have voted on but just from the residential properties. If you live somewhere where the taxes are high and it is a desirable area you should get more benefits because you put in more. BUT the people in these communities aren’t the only people that shop in these areas. Businesses make money on all people from all over. What should happen is that all the money that is made from businesses should be added up then divided through all of the schools throughout your state or county. This would be the only fair way to fund schools.
 


As to the last comment. I work in the feeder schools to 201 & I understand the problems of our student’s performance and would like to know what people think the reasons are for 201’s under performing test scores?

[OakParkSpartan]

I live in this community and have have a couple comments.

·   201’s school district is unlike many in the area. They compare student body wise to towns like LaGrange, Hinsdale, Elmhurst, & Downers Grove. All of these towns are very wealthy and have very high taxes. Berwyn and Cicero have a similar amount of students but our taxes are much lower, especially the amount that goes to the schools. Also, because this area has a much higher poverty rate than these other local communities our taxes are high for them so passing a referendum will be difficult. That being said this school is under funded and a referendum is needed to survive past 2015.

As to the last comment. I work in the feeder schools to 201 & I understand the problems of our student’s performance and would like to know what people think the reasons are for 201’s under performing test scores?

If you don't think there is a relationship between the quality of schools and the poverty rate, you need to look deeper.  Improve the schools and we are spending a LOT less on things like a day care center in the high school.

[n01_important]

The 57% of the money that goes to schools from property taxes should only come from actual peoples residences. But this isn’t how it works. For example many of the people in 201 shop at North riverside mall but get zero benefits from them it, it goes to the North Riverside/Riverside districts but their residents aren’t the only contributors. Since the system is set up like this it will always be unfair. The only way to set it up how schools get money fairly no matter where you live is the community your are from puts in whatever normally do or have voted on but just from the residential properties. If you live somewhere where the taxes are high and it is a desirable area you should get more benefits because you put in more. BUT the people in these communities aren’t the only people that shop in these areas. Businesses make money on all people from all over. What should happen is that all the money that is made from businesses should be added up then divided through all of the schools throughout your state or county. This would be the only fair way to fund schools.

We should ask WHY North Riverside saw the value in putting up land for a mall that allowed them to rake in the Benjies while others used their land for an automotive shish kebab so they can have a movie showing it but had to waste Benjies to get rid of it.

Other districts are just smarter at bringing in sales tax.  We are smarter at raising property taxes 15%.   

[billyjean]

The 57% of the money that goes to schools from property taxes should only come from actual peoples residences. But this isn’t how it works. For example many of the people in 201 shop at North riverside mall but get zero benefits from them it, it goes to the North Riverside/Riverside districts but their residents aren’t the only contributors. Since the system is set up like this it will always be unfair. The only way to set it up how schools get money fairly no matter where you live is the community your are from puts in whatever normally do or have voted on but just from the residential properties. If you live somewhere where the taxes are high and it is a desirable area you should get more benefits because you put in more. BUT the people in these communities aren’t the only people that shop in these areas. Businesses make money on all people from all over. What should happen is that all the money that is made from businesses should be added up then divided through all of the schools throughout your state or county. This would be the only fair way to fund schools.

We should ask WHY North Riverside saw the value in putting up land for a mall that allowed them to rake in the Benjies while others used their land for an automotive shish kebab so they can have a movie showing it but had to waste Benjies to get rid of it.

Other districts are just smarter at bringing in sales tax.  We are smarter at raising property taxes 15%.  

funny you bring up the North Riverside Mall.  First, that property prior to becoming a mall was a tree nursery, and was so for a very long time.  It is my understanding that North Riverside residents had a choice of having the Mall or a Community College.  They chose the mall.  And if you are comparing Cermak Plaza now to the way it was when first built, I blame the management of the property.  Cermak Plaza was at one time a premier place to shop, had a good variety of stores, a place for teens to roam the shops and spend money, a place to walk around at night even when stores were closed.  That era is gone.  That said, it was still up to management of that property to keep something going, and they haven't done so.

[ronna]

If you don't think there is a relationship between the quality of schools and the poverty rate, you need to look deeper.  Improve the schools and we are spending a LOT less on things like a day care center in the high school.

I couldnt agree more & there is a HUGE relationship between poverty rate and quality of schools. But who is to blame for it. Are you saying that all the adminisrators and teachers that are in good communities that have a low poverty rate are better administrators and teachers? I see firsthand what the employees in this community deal with from students. I actually know teachers who dont give homework because thry only get about 20% of it back, what can they do if teachers cant egt the majority of their students to care. This is happening in the middle school level so I cant imagine how the HS students as a whole will ever keep up or be.You could bring in the supposed top 500 teachers & 50 administrators & their wouldnt be a signifigant improvement. I truly think the people in charge do the best they can with what they have, which is why the scools in this community don't look like a CPS school. When it comes down to it students whose parents are involved & require their kids do well in school and put forth the effort needed all get a very good education. The students in this community who do well in school all think they get a good education.
One main thing that would help students be successful would be smaller class sizes because it allows for better learning, but that takes money which unfortunatly isn't available. Responsibility does fall on individuals & you only get out what effort u put in.

[Ted]

·   District 201 will never split into 2 different districts. The Berwyn community is changing more like the Cicero community every year so they are very equal.

 Why is that a reason for not splitting the districts?  Your logic makes no sense. You say the districts should not be split because Berwyn is changing.  Why does that premise lead (Berwyn is changing) lead to the conclusion that the districts should not be split? I would argue just the opposite - especially when you look at the property tax disparity.

  Berwyn and Cicero have a similar amount of students but our taxes are much lower, especially the amount that goes to the schools.

  Wrong.  That is a false statement.  Berwyn sends 2700 kids into the district; Cicero sends 5000 kids into the district. And, from what I have heard, that disparity is going to grow in the next few years. The number of students that Berwyn sends into the district and the number of students that Cicero sends into the district are not even close to being "a similar amount".
  

[Ted]

We should ask WHY North Riverside saw the value in putting up land for a mall that allowed them to rake in the Benjies while others used their land for an automotive shish kebab so they can have a movie showing it but had to waste Benjies to get rid of it.

Other districts are just smarter at bringing in sales tax.  We are smarter at raising property taxes 15%.   

 According to some of the old timers in Berwyn, Berwyn had a chance to purchase/annex the area where North Riverside mall is currently (about 60 to 70 years ago) and chose not to purchase the property.

[mustang54]

We should ask WHY North Riverside saw the value in putting up land for a mall that allowed them to rake in the Benjies while others used their land for an automotive shish kebab so they can have a movie showing it but had to waste Benjies to get rid of it.

Other districts are just smarter at bringing in sales tax.  We are smarter at raising property taxes 15%.   

 According to some of the old timers in Berwyn, Berwyn had a chance to purchase/annex the area where North Riverside mall is currently (about 60 to 70 years ago) and chose not to purchase the property.

  Thats an old wives tale! I dont beleive you wheres your proof. lol.

[OakParkSpartan]

We should ask WHY North Riverside saw the value in putting up land for a mall that allowed them to rake in the Benjies while others used their land for an automotive shish kebab so they can have a movie showing it but had to waste Benjies to get rid of it.

Other districts are just smarter at bringing in sales tax.  We are smarter at raising property taxes 15%.   

 According to some of the old timers in Berwyn, Berwyn had a chance to purchase/annex the area where North Riverside mall is currently (about 60 to 70 years ago) and chose not to purchase the property.

  Thats an old wives tale! I dont beleive you wheres your proof. lol.

I've heard the same, and I've got the same thoughts as you...I wonder if there is any record of this decision.

[Shelley]

Some say the state's education funding is incorrect because wealthy suburbs aren't paying their fair share and only spending money on their own children.  They say the state should redistribute the wealth from the New Trier district to Morton.
And some say that Morton should split between Berwyn and Cicero because Cicero is not paying its fair share...

If a community wants to provide better schools, why should they be penalized?  If a town doesn't want to pave their streets, should surrounding communities be required to pay for it?

My understanding is the State and Federal government pay some base level to schools.  If a community decides to exceed that, what is wrong with that?

There is nothing wrong with that as long as the base level provided by the state is sufficient.  Currently, I believe the Governor's budget proposes to lower the "foundation" level which is already inadequate.  HB174 provides property tax relief to "lower income or middle income" communitites while raising the STATE income tax from 3-5% allowing more funding for education and, in some eyes, redistributing wealth.  I do not think it would prevent wealthy communities from providing additional funds (to the state foundation level) to their schools.  I may be wrong...does anyone know specifically about HB 174?  

[jfrickind]

I actually know teachers who dont give homework because thry only get about 20% of it back, what can they do if teachers cant egt the majority of their students to care. This is happening in the middle school level so I cant imagine how the HS students as a whole will ever keep up or be.

And there is the problem.  Just because a majority of kids do not turn in homework the teacher doesn't assign homework?  What next?  The majority of kids decide not to take tests so we eliminate tests?  Making the statement of, "Well I don't get the homework back so I don't assign it" is a cop out.  You're not in the classroom to be a buddy and do what the students want.  You're their to make them do what is best for them.  Don't assign homework because they don't do it.  Give me a freaking break.  Thanks for passing the buck to the high school teachers.

JD

[ronna]

I actually know teachers who dont give homework because thry only get about 20% of it back, what can they do if teachers cant egt the majority of their students to care. This is happening in the middle school level so I cant imagine how the HS students as a whole will ever keep up or be.

And there is the problem.  Just because a majority of kids do not turn in homework the teacher doesn't assign homework?  What next?  The majority of kids decide not to take tests so we eliminate tests?  Making the statement of, "Well I don't get the homework back so I don't assign it" is a cop out.  You're not in the classroom to be a buddy and do what the students want.  You're their to make them do what is best for them.  Don't assign homework because they don't do it.  Give me a freaking break.  Thanks for passing the buck to the high school teachers.

JD

unfortunatlt you dont uderstand that if teachers were to fail students because of this they would be in trouble. This a long standing occurance in the jr high/high school schools of this community. If a teacher fails a kid because the student doesnt do any homework or do well on tests the teacher gets in trouble or gets let go. this practice does happen.

[n01_important]

I actually know teachers who dont give homework because thry only get about 20% of it back, what can they do if teachers cant egt the majority of their students to care. This is happening in the middle school level so I cant imagine how the HS students as a whole will ever keep up or be.

And there is the problem.  Just because a majority of kids do not turn in homework the teacher doesn't assign homework?  What next?  The majority of kids decide not to take tests so we eliminate tests?  Making the statement of, "Well I don't get the homework back so I don't assign it" is a cop out.  You're not in the classroom to be a buddy and do what the students want.  You're their to make them do what is best for them.  Don't assign homework because they don't do it.  Give me a freaking break.  Thanks for passing the buck to the high school teachers.

JD

unfortunatlt you dont uderstand that if teachers were to fail students because of this they would be in trouble. This a long standing occurance in the jr high/high school schools of this community. If a teacher fails a kid because the student doesnt do any homework or do well on tests the teacher gets in trouble or gets let go. this practice does happen.

No child left behind policy?

[jfrickind]

ronna - I do understand.  I'm a teacher at the high school level. Not 201 but one similar.

JD

[ronna]

No child left behind policy?

You got it. Also, the teacher has no other choice but to find anyway possible to help the students pass the class or they get fired for failing to many. That kicks having high standards to the window, it basically teach to who wants to learn and hope the others don't act up to much. I know its crazy but thats what low acheiving, low funded, low income schools have come to. Thats why I said nothing will change until students & their parents actually care about getting good grades & a good education. I dont even work in 201, the stuff i know of for sure is middle schools & what my 201 friends have said. Again, take the best 500 hundred teachers and put them in the situation of these cicero/berwyn schools and their would be no improvement, maybe a decline because they wouldnt know how to handle the situation.

[jfrickind]

It takes strong leadership to right this ship.  Someone (or a group of people) that is willing to stand up and say, "Follow me".  They must have the support from the school board because the s  t will hit the fan the first couple of years.  The one thing to get out of the charter school experiments is to have high standards and force everyone to live up to them - students, teachers, parents, and administrators.  If you don't live up to them - move on.

If you have clear, achieveable goals - not outrageous - and lay out the expectations from day one, then even the loudest detractors will get in line.  But then you have to hold everyone accountable. 

One of my favorite sayings, "Everybody loves rules - until they have to live by them."

JD

[ronna]

It takes strong leadership to right this ship.  Someone (or a group of people) that is willing to stand up and say, "Follow me".  They must have the support from the school board because the s  t will hit the fan the first couple of years.  The one thing to get out of the charter school experiments is to have high standards and force everyone to live up to them - students, teachers, parents, and administrators.  If you don't live up to them - move on.

If you have clear, achieveable goals - not outrageous - and lay out the expectations from day one, then even the loudest detractors will get in line.  But then you have to hold everyone accountable. 

One of my favorite sayings, "Everybody loves rules - until they have to live by them."

JD

I dont think this would be a problem for 95% of the teachers or adminstrators from this community. In fact I would love to see this, the problem would still be on the 2 factors that are them main things that need to get on board: parents-who blame others for thier children not doing well & students- who at least 50% just dont seem to really care. 

[billyjean]

From The Chronicle ...

"Batavia teachers agree to pay, benefit cuts

BATAVIA – Batavia school teachers have agreed to reduce their salaries and benefits by $2.3 million in the next year in the face of funding problems on the local and state level.

The Batavia School Board on Monday voted 4-1 to approve the agreement. The Batavia Education Association last week voted 366-32 to accept the agreement.

“Without intervention, the impact of the financial crisis would have resulted in a loss of 50 to 60 teachers,” Batavia School Superintendent Jack Barshinger said.

As a result, class sizes would have increased and programs would have been cut, Barshinger said.

“The BEA is committed to preserving the high quality education we provide children,” BEA President Tony Malay said in a statement. “The BEA members have committed $2.3 million of previously negotiated salary and benefits to continue to provide an uninterrupted, high quality education to our children.”

With the new agreement, the starting salary for teachers in the 2010-2011 year will be $39,450, topping out at $101,707. Next year, starting salary will be $40,905, and go up to $105,934.

In return, the school board has agreed not to reduce the number of full-time teachers, except for vacancies caused by retirement, performance dismissals, resignations or periodic part-time reductions.

However, the board agreed that it would not reduce the number of full-time teachers in any case by more than 11 for the 2010-2011 school year.

Board member Matt Winkle said he could not support the agreement.

“But I think it shows BEA’s commitment to the community,” Winkle said. “I think they really have put the children first.”"


http://www.kcchronicle.com/articles/2010/03/08/17182190/index.xml


You might also want to read some of the "comments" made under that article.  Very interesting.

[mortonwest4159]

Billyjean what's unfortunate is that the teachers have offered to take cuts and salery freezes but the school board didn't take them up. Like mr. Fox said at the board meeting, the teachers were willing to talk about this earlier in the year and make compromises but instead were thrown the reduction plan the same way the community was.

[billyjean]

Billyjean what's unfortunate is that the teachers have offered to take cuts and salery freezes but the school board didn't take them up. Like mr. Fox said at the board meeting, the teachers were willing to talk about this earlier in the year and make compromises but instead were thrown the reduction plan the same way the community was.

Well, that's plum wrong on the part of the school board.  If teachers are WILLING to take reduction in salary and benefits in order to keep things going for the kids, I think THAT should have been considered FIRST.  Administrators, to show good faith, also should have said. hey, I'll help too .... I'll take a cut in salary and benefits also.  Then this District and surrounding Districts should form a task force that goes to Springfield and says, look ... we've got teachers and administrators taking less pay and benefits ... when is this State going to do right by these kids?  Then show them the long list of politicians up for re-election this year.  When you show them the list, make sure your face resembles that of Jack Nicholson when he says ... Here's Johnny !! in the Shining.