El Rushbo, Supreme Idiot (as usual)

[Boris]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/09/limbaugh-ill-leave-us-if_n_491536.html

"I don't know. I'll just tell you this, if this passes and it's five years from now and all that stuff gets implemented -- I am leaving the country. I'll go to Costa Rica." - - Rush Limbaugh

Costa Rica is world famous for its outstanding healthcare...but obviously El Rushbo's interns didn't tell him that they have government-run universal healthcare.

[rbain]

Could we get it in writing?

[n01_important]

On one side, health care "reform" passes and Rush leaves... on the other health care doesn't pass and 17% of our GDP doesn't become 25%... 

hmmm.. tempting...

 

[rbain]

So you believe healthcare costs will stop climbing if reform fails?

[n01_important]

No, I believe healthcare will rise much higher if Obama healthcare "reform" passes.  We should pass some type of healthcare reform... but not this.  What we have is a POS.  We should start over.

Here is a hint... when the stocks of health insurance companies RISE after the president's speech... guess who is going to rake in the benjees?  And whose pocket will those benjees come from?

[jake]

You mean you don't buy Obama's numbers when the senate bill uses 10 years of taxes and fees but only 6 years of benefit payouts? 
And when did the CBO score Obama's plan?  He keeps referencing the CBO, but how in the world can the CBO score his 11-page outline?

What were the dems assumptions about the medicare-doctor fix?  Was the key healthcare cost included in the "comprehensive" healthcare bill?

...but there is no time to answer these questions, we need to ram this bill through NOW!  Healthcare needs to be the focus for the last year+; taxpayers are just stupid- they concentrate too much on UNEMPLOYMENT!

[n01_important]

Jake, since you are taking shots at Bailout O, (rightly so, his healthcare plan is a POS)... what about pointing out the stupidity of Republicans?

I've heard statements coming from the Right like, "health care insurance are not the problem... if you take their profits, it is inconsequential to what we spend on healthcare".

Come on, isn't that statement just as stupid and reckless? 

One needs to look at not only the profits but the expenses as well... Are they suggesting that the cost to hire private detectives to deny coverage of their customers when they need it the most is a necessary cost?  Or the cost to have people that have to transact (write, read, input, develop) specialized forms are also a necessary cost?

[jake]

Yes, hiring a PI may be over the top.  On the other side, Medicare and Medicaid have huge fraud issues because there is so little investigation.  Maybe it comes down to the issue that insurers have to answer to stockholders when there is rampant fraud; Medicare just gets more money from the taxpayers. 

And there are forms for Medicare as well.  Medicare rejects more claims than the insurers (go beyond the media reports to the primary data to see for yourself), pays your doctor slower, etc. than the evil insurers.  Maybe those costs to transact have real benefits. 

I am not defending the insurers.  But I am personally happy with my insurer (as are the majority of Americans per the polls), and I far prefer the insurer to the prospect of gov't stepping in.  To see what happens when the gov't steps in, look at IL healthcare programs...and ask your doctor what he thinks about the prospect of dealing with your insurer vs. the state of IL. 

[Mr. Daniel Lumis]

Jake, I don't think you can say that the raw statistics mean what you imply. Why were the claims rejected? Many providers contract with third parties to do their claims; many insurance companies also process Medicare claims. A claim rejection is not the same as denial of coverage, which is a problem 50 million people in this country have with private insurance. And if you CAN afford your own insurance, you're not only paying for that, but through your taxes, you also pay for Medicare and Medicaid. Without knowing more than the raw data, you cannot connect claim rejection with inherent evil. Medicare may have its problems, fraud being one of them. But that's really a problem of greed and lack of ethics in this country isn't it? I'm not defending Medicare or private insurers. Again, as I've said before in these threads, healthcare is a moral imperative in a civilized culture, especially in one that claims to be modern. The business model of private insurers dictates that to make a profit, it must deny coverage. They've managed to kick 1/6th of the American population out of their model, yielding profits for themselves, which results in additional costs for everyone else. While their shareholders may be happy, they do a disservice to our country. And if you look at the data, you'll see that Aetna is right up there with Medicare. The only way the study was able to make the difference seem that much larger was by averaging the other insurance companies' denial rates. In my estimation, this issue is just another talking point designed to distract from the real problem.

[jake]

Have you reviewed the reports and data? 

I think you blow off the level of fraud at Medicare too easily.  The dollars are huge by the government’s own estimation.  That is taxpayer money wasted!  The insurance companies do not shirk their duties to their stakeholders- they fight the fraud.  The government just gets more funding from the taxpayers.   

The business model of the insurers is to appropriately price risk! That is not the same as denying claims.  If a P&C insurer does not pay its claims, it will quickly be out of business as customers pull policies.

However, perhaps Medicare’s model is to deny claims, since they are not a true insurer and do not even attempt to price risk!

[jake]

Nancy Pelosi, Democrat, on why we need Obamacare:

"Think of an economy where people could be an artist or a photographer or a writer without worrying about keeping their day job in order to have health insurance..."

So who would worry about it?  The taxpayer who actually is responsible, works, and pays taxes! 

But while she is at it, does Pelosi think these artists, photographers, and writers should have to pay for auto insurance?  What about renter's or homeowner's insurance?  What about worker's comp? 

Why should they worry about car payments, mortgage payments, and cell phone bills?  Think of that economy that Pelosi and Obama want to ram through...and what comes next?   

[Mr. Daniel Lumis]

Condensed version of Jake:
Artists, photographers and writers aren't hard working taxpayers, just societal leeches.

[n01_important]

Not really.

Healthcare is not a right... it's a privilege and you must pay for.

If we want to guarantee healthcare as a nation... fine, change the mf Constitution to declare the all men are created equal and have a right to healthcare should they not afford it themselves.

Until then, don't ram this POS down our throats.

[jake]

"How many people are getting insurance through their jobs right now?  Raise your hands.  All right.  Well, a lot of those folks, your employer it’s estimated would see premiums fall by as much as 3,000 percent, which means they could give you a raise. " - Obama 3/15/2010

Can someone do that math for me?  3000%?
Getting back to $0 would be 100%, but Obama tacks on another 2900% (or 29x)!  So if a single plan is $5,000 per year, the employer would somehow see a $125,000 PROFIT under the Obama bill?  Simply amazing.

Great business model: just employ people, pay their premiums of $5k, heck- kick them $20K per year, and collect six figures from Obama!

What a joke...

[Berwyn Bob]

I do find it odd that so many people who despise Limbaugh, know what he says on his radio program. A little note of advice...if you don't like his program or what he says...turn the station. Pretty simple stuff.

In regards to the last post, I love how the president seems to imply that our employers will be free to give us raises now that "his" healthcare program will free them of so much responsibility. Yeah, like that will happen. Trust me when I say, I won't be holding my breath.

-BB

[eno]

I do find it odd that so many people who despise Limbaugh, know what he says on his radio program. A little note of advice...if you don't like his program or what he says...turn the station. Pretty simple stuff.

In regards to the last post, I love how the president seems to imply that our employers will be free to give us raises now that "his" healthcare program will free them of so much responsibility. Yeah, like that will happen. Trust me when I say, I won't be holding my breath.

-BB

BB:

I suspect that many of the people who despise Limbaugh would like to "turn the station" off so no one could hear what he says!

eno